Coach: Condit did as much damage from bottom

by Brian Hemminger | source: mmamania.com
 

Brian Hemminger (MMAmania.com): Were you impressed with Carlos' warrior spirit during the fight? I think a lot of guys would be pretty discouraged getting taken down and controlled like that pretty much ad nauseum.

Mike Winkeljohn: Well you know what? I was definitely impressed with his warrior spirit but I look back at the fight and I know we were losing the fight because Georges was on top, but honestly, look at Georges' face after. Really, we probably did as much damage if not more from the bottom as Georges did from the top. He was on top controlling and imposing his will. He got the takedown points. In the stand-up, of course, we hurt him more. There's no doubt Carlos was a great warrior and he was in the game.

I'll tell you what. If we would have had a round or more of that, that would have taken its toll on Georges because we weren't going anywhere.

Brian Hemminger (MMAmania.com): Yeah, I noticed in the fifth round Carlos stuffed at least one takedown. It seemed the tide was starting to turn a little bit. So that was something you saw too?

Mike Winkeljohn: After the fourth round, I told him he had to knock him out, that he had to go out there and do it. He said, "Yes sir." I kind of had goose bumps because I really felt Carlos was gonna do what he nearly did do, that it was gonna work for us. After he got extension on that first single leg takedown attempt, I think it was the first one of the fifth round, I felt good, like "Here we go," but again, Georges is the best at what he does. That's why he's Georges St. Pierre.

read entire interview...

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Recent Comments »

Wasa-B site profile image  

11/30/12 12:57 AM by Wasa-B

"but condit was right in there keeping GSP on his toes the whole fight."GSP had to bury his head on Condit's chest quite often.Every time GSP postured up to GNP, Condit would break his posture so GSP was never able to sustain the GNP consistently and tee off.GSP was absolutely basing out and defending Condit's offense from the guard (again, as showed by the Gracie Breakdown...who id say understand grappling quite well).

Nexuscrawlers site profile image  

11/29/12 5:37 PM by Nexuscrawlers

Agreed, that fight was such an exciting ground battle because neither guy could really hold onto any serious advantage. GSP came out on top and def won the fight, but condit was right in there keeping GSP on his toes the whole fight.

Wasa-B site profile image  

11/29/12 4:28 PM by Wasa-B

"That Condit did not put GSP in any danger except for that kick. GSP did not have Condit in any serious danger either, but was able to control the fight, start to finish, hence dominate him."To add, i dont think either guy had the other in serious danger on the ground - neither had a close sub attempt, neither GNPed with huge damage, like stunning the other. But i dont think GSP was in control at all from start to finish. That is where im questioning the understanding of grappling/ground. You could argue GSP controlled the majority of it but i would completely disagree he controlled the ground from start to finish. You arent in control when you're getting swept for starters.

Wasa-B site profile image  

11/29/12 4:24 PM by Wasa-B

"I wrote that at no point I, or anyone around me, felt like Condit was in the fight or was getting the better of GSP except for the third round... Not sure how you can disagree with that... Can you tell me when/where Condit was getting the better of GSP except for maybe a couple of punches thrown from off his back?"If Condit wasnt in the fight, GSP would have been having his way on the ground (where most of the fight took place). He would have passed guard at will (never had a full and controlling pass iirc), he would have had a sustained damaging GNP campaign (he had ok GNP here and there, never was fully able to posture and tee off consistently), he would have had numerous sub attempts (he had zero).Condit was "getting the better of GSP" or was the one in control or the one dictating the action when he swept GSP (GSP got position back), and when he was going for numerous other sub and sweep attempts and had more than a "couple punches" off his back - he was doing that ALL NIGHT. "Not sure why you have to pass ridiculous judgments on people just because they see it as a dominant performance by GSP."Watch the Gracie Breakdown for starters. They do into detail of praise of GSP (rightfully) but they also highlight how GSP reacted to Condit's sub/sweep attempts (kneebar to triangle for example). If GSP is reacting to that, he is DEFENDING. When one is defending, the other is on offense. Not saying it was all Condit on offense, as mentioned, i thought GSP won but to say that it was all GSP on the ground would leave me to believe that one does not understand grappling or the ground very well (IMHO). And i say that simply on the basis that i saw a battle on the ground and that its been a long problem for fans not to recognize what bottom guy is doing, same for the judges. So it may sound harsh or like a dis but im not passing judgement imo, im making an opinion based on what im hearing. No offense meant, i can understand if its taken but to me, if you cant see that GSP had a hard time on the ground or was at least being challenged, then I stick with my "judgement."" I understand what's going on hte ground and if you think GSP was in trouble by putting Condit on his back and keeping him there and not being threatened by submissions for the most part and just taking short punches, then I can just as easily say you don't understand what's going on, but that would be dumb"Depends what we mean by "trouble" but on the flipside, what damaging GNP did GSP really throw? When did he put Condit in danger on the ground? As for "being threatened," as above, GSP was clearly reacting or defending what Condit was throwing at GSP thru the course: The sweep, the kneebar to triangle as noted by the Gracies, etc.

4thHorsemen site profile image  

11/29/12 1:06 PM by 4thHorsemen

Which is what I've been saying anyway... That Condit did not put GSP in any danger except for that kick. GSP did not have Condit in any serious danger either, but was able to control the fight, start to finish, hence dominate him. "Again, I think GSP won but with respect, just because the guys you watched with agreed with you doesnt tell me anything "I wrote that at no point I, or anyone around me, felt like Condit was in the fight or was getting the better of GSP except for the third round... Not sure how you can disagree with that... Can you tell me when/where Condit was getting the better of GSP except for maybe a couple of punches thrown from off his back?"many fans still seem to have a hard time understand what's really going on on the ground, and if you thought GSP was dominating the entire time on the ground, i may have to put you in that category unfortuntately as well."Not sure why you have to pass ridiculous judgments on people just because they see it as a dominant performance by GSP. Just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they "have a hard time understanding what's really going on". That's just a strange thing to say. I understand what's going on hte ground and if you think GSP was in trouble by putting Condit on his back and keeping him there and not being threatened by submissions for the most part and just taking short punches, then I can just as easily say you don't understand what's going on, but that would be dumb. I felt like GSP put on a dominant performance from start to finish and Condit really didn't have anything to offer against GSP.

Wasa-B site profile image  

11/27/12 3:17 PM by Wasa-B

And lol at everyone being a keyboard warrior unless you take your issues to the commission, etc.That's the equivalent of "I'd like to see you say that to his face!" or "As if you could do better!""this forum regularly discusses hypothetical fights and rankings"Thats what forums are for. And the person who said its a waste of time sure wasted a lot of time with us discussing it.

lockon site profile image  

11/27/12 9:09 AM by lockon

Lol @ this debate being a waste of time unless we create some new scoring system. Don't be ridiculous, this forum regularly discusses hypothetical fights and rankings. This is absolutely fine.

irishman84 site profile image  

11/26/12 3:02 PM by irishman84

ORCUS ladies and Gentlemen (full stadium cheering!!!)

orcus site profile image  

11/26/12 2:56 PM by orcus

"Read my post again. I didn't say Condit didn't do anything, I said Condit was unable mount any serious offense and whatever he did was pretty much instantly nullified by GSP."   Can't say I remember much serious offense from GSP either, certainly nothing on the level of Carlos dropping GSP and going after him.

irishman84 site profile image  

11/26/12 2:55 PM by irishman84

Monday voted the fuck up Wasa-B