Joe Lauzon's answer to the judging problem


Decisions Suck

From: Joe Lauzon's Stats" href="" target="profile" class="ProfileComment-f">Joe Lauzon 554
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14761
Twitter, Director of Awesome

Boxing is very straight forward - you hit the other guy until he can’t stand. How do you score this though… two guys fighting, we will call them Apollo and Rocky.

In one round, Apollo lands a TON of punches and while they are starting to take effect, Rocky stays on his feet. Towards the end of the round, Rocky lands a couple HUGE shots, and wobbles Apollo but he doesn’t go down. Now Rocky was getting beat up for 2:45 of a 3:00 round, but landed those huge shots at the end of the round. Who gets the round? Apollo for controlling and winning most of the round, or Rocky for landing the biggest and best shots of the round. It’s a tough decision, but this is just quality versus volume.

Some will say Apollo won the round and some will say Rocky. Its tough to get the same answer from lots of people though, because its subjective and you are comparing apples to oranges.

Now, same thing, Apollo and Rocky fight in an MMA match. Apollo is using his jab and beating up Rocky for most of the round, but towards the end of the round, Rocky shoots a double and works some ground and pound, passes the guard and sinks a read naked choke, but Apollo is saved by the bell. Now you have to compare standup striking and balance that against ground and pound, but also factor in a takedown and a near submission. How many punches did that takedown cancel out? How many did the submission?

Comparing apples to oranges is tough, comparing a grouping of apples, oranges, bananas, pineapples and grapes is even tougher when nothing matches up. Decisions suck. Always fight for the finish, and don’t let someone else have any influence on your winning or losing.



What do you think UG? Is great judging in MMA inherently unattainable? Is the solution for fighters to always fight for the finish?



tags: UFC   Joe Lauzon (detail)  judging   

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Recent Comments »

fan4000 site profile image  

11/27/13 9:42 PM by fan4000

Getting completely rid of the 10 point must system would change MMA too drastically. A drastic change in the rules would eliminate so many casual fans that will refuse to learn the new scoring system because it "to complex." Plus what if the replacement system was even worse, then what would they do? Switch back and cause more chaos amongst fans or keep the shittier new system at the stake of the fighters?

fan4000 site profile image  

11/27/13 9:42 PM by fan4000

I meant sake, not sake and can't edit on my iPhone.

MNFAN site profile image  

11/27/13 8:35 PM by MNFAN

Scrap the 10 point must system, it's a broken scale that only utilizes the top end. Makes no damn sense.To me the only answer is that the UFC has to someehow establish an independent judging system and use former fighters as judges. That could be tricky as well because you have camp affiliations, guys who don't like other guys, but you would have to find a way around it.Frankly, I'm also tired of Dana saying there is nothing he can do. He can help offer alternatives to the NSAC and other athletic commissions. He and the UFC can help create a new system and petition them to use it. As long as it doesn't affect the AC's bottom line, they probably aren't going to give a shit if you use their judges or not.And if that doesn't work, eliminate decisions altogether.

Oontyex site profile image  

11/27/13 5:48 PM by Oontyex

Pride scoring wasn't perfect, but it's the closest mma has had so far and is leaps and bounds ahead of the current system used by the UFC Rewarding attempts to finish and damage rather vs riding out the clock with top position and 'stealing rounds with a takedown with 5 seconds left' , who is arguing that it wouldn't be a huge step in the right direction

Madrugadao site profile image  

11/27/13 5:26 PM by Madrugadao

The fairest way to do it, is to make any fight that is not finished, a draw. Unfortunately this will make for a shittier product, so will never happen. So we will always have decisions some are not happy with.

Haulport site profile image  

11/27/13 5:18 PM by Haulport

Very good points. This is why (in MMA at least) we should call an apple and apple and an orange and orange. My humble attempt at this

DatSpider site profile image  

11/27/13 5:06 PM by DatSpider

The one landing the biggest and best shots of the round should always win it,IMO, since said person were closer to finishing the fight plus delivered the most damage.

Kid Salami site profile image  

11/27/13 4:21 PM by Kid Salami

And on a side note, most of us would assume Joe to be a smart individual and a competent Judge. Joe thought GSP won the Hendricks fight. I'm not saying he is right or wrong. I'm just bringing this up to illustrate the point that even with competent, experienced fighters scoring fights, there will still be many controversial decisions.

kokid951 site profile image  

11/27/13 4:13 PM by kokid951

Well said ! sounded like Poetry 

Kid Salami site profile image  

11/27/13 4:09 PM by Kid Salami

I disagree. The UG is filled with with knowledgeable MMA fans, writers, bloggers and fighters alike. But there is always constant debates and disagreements about "who" actually won "what" fight.Like i said in a previous post, unless MMA judging is changed in a way that can clearly define criteria and leave it less open to personal interpretation, not much will change.What's the difference of replacing 3 non-experienced judges with 3 experienced judges if the experienced ones all have varying opinions of who won, anyways?