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What if ... >> honest opinion on dogfighting?


5/13/07 5:28 PM
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Jump Kick
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Edited: 13-May-07
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People who fight their dogs should suffer the same fate as their dogs (at the very least). If the dog dies, the human dies. If the dog bleeds, the human bleeds. Would the owners still fight their dogs if they had to face the music? Cowards. -jk
5/13/07 5:28 PM
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Jeepster
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Edited: 13-May-07
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There are clearly many sides to the issue of dogfighting. Read the book by Sam Sheridan A Fighter's Heart for a good look at the world of dog fighting. As many have pointed out the "dog's love it". Maybe, it is a hard statement to deny or confirm, but the only reason that they "love it", is because we have bred that trait in to the dog for our entertainment. Had we bred them for frisbee catching, they would love it just as well, but it far less entertaining to gamble on. Those that defend the practice of dogfighting, point to the "reputable" breeders who breed for gameness. Unforunately those types of breeders comprise a tiny portion of the community that are now involved in dog fighting. Most have no plan but to try and get the biggest baddest dog they can find and let it fight to the death. Ihave worked in animal wellfare and seen how "well" many owners handle their animals, and "well" they fare as pets.
5/13/07 5:39 PM
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MrFixit
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Edited: 13-May-07
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LOL @ " Prison"
5/13/07 5:43 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 13-May-07
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"veknyc i had no control over that fight" You didn't own a phone that you could call the police with? You were a prisoner and forced to watch by a rogue gang of dog fighters? Your legs were chopped off by your lawnmower and next thing you knew a dogfight broke out in your yard? Give me a break! You sound like some guy saying he had no choice but to throw Jews into an oven. "how can anyone not see that dog as being anything but courageous" Damn right, and a dog that courageous deserves better!
5/13/07 5:45 PM
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Jeepster
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Edited: 13-May-07
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that is the point! We are the animal that should know better.
5/13/07 5:53 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 13-May-07
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"and completely hypocritical about eating farmed meat -- as Bywaterflotsam just pointed out."

This is a very weak rationale, IMO.  While I don't eat "farmed" meat for a number of reasons, it is still very easily distinguishable from dog fighting.  In the farmed meat example, animals are used to provide food for people.  In the fighting example, dogs are put in a ring to fight, injure, and in many instances, kill each other, for entertainment?  You don't see any distinction between the two? 

Second, in "dog" fights, if Sam's book is at all true, the animal that "currs", fails to make "scratch", is most often killed right after the match.  Its usefullness in entertaining as a fighter is over. 

5/13/07 6:07 PM
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Brandon Garner
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Edited: 13-May-07
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Some of the people posting on this thread are MMA fighters. Probably because it is in their blood and they are genetically inclined to want to fight. Why not let the dogs have their fun? I wouldn't want someone to tell me I couldn't fight anymore.
5/13/07 6:14 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 13-May-07
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You didn't just compare guys who knowingly chose to engage in the sport of MMA (with the option to stop at anytime) with two dogs who are thrown in a confined place that forces their fight or flight reflex to fight did you? If you did please cull yourself. "I never said i was against dog fighting,so why would i snitch on dogfighters?" So then you acknowledge that you were lying out of your ass when you said you had no control over it. Good at least you are not lying your ass of now. "I know enough about the dog fighting game to know that most pitbulls enjoy doing it when givin the chance" They also enjoy eating and drinking anti-freeze should we let them do that as well? Since we play God when we engage in animal husbandry we are obligated to look out for the best interest of the animal. Obviously crawling across the ground with three broken legs while another dog tries to kill it is not in the dogs best interest. I have been active in the Doberman community for almost 10 years. My males want nothing than to kill other male dogs (except maybe to lay on the couch and suck on a stuffed animal)... should I just let them off the leash when they see another male in the park? They also salivate at the thought of killing any stranger who comes through the door. I guess I should just let them attack the UPS guy because they "enjoy" it?
5/13/07 6:24 PM
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Jeepster
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Edited: 13-May-07
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I am not for dog fighting, but understand the allure of the blood lust. Same reason most of us on the forum want to see the blood spill in the cage. Do I believe the dog is "enjoying" fighting? Yes, to some degree. My problem is more with the fact that we have propogated the fighting for so long for callous enjoyment. We have bred a line of dogs that enjoy fighting! They "naturally" want to fight each other. There is nothing natural about dogs wanting to shred each other apart. I have issues with the callous disposal of the animals once thay have outlived their usefullness to us. So yes, I believe it is cruel. These dogs are victims for entertainment.
5/13/07 6:25 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 13-May-07 06:33 PM
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"They also salivate at the thought of killing any stranger who comes through the door. I guess I should just let them attack the UPS guy because they "enjoy" it?" The reasons that you shouldn't do these things have everything to do with preventing harm to other human beings and their property (including their non-aggressive dogs) and nothing to do with whether you should let your dogs do what they want.
5/13/07 6:27 PM
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Jeepster
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Edited: 13-May-07
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I wouldn't want someone to tell me I couldn't fight anymore. Brandon, would you still fight if you or your opponent would be killed after the fight for tapping out? Think about it that way.
5/13/07 6:33 PM
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BigBopper
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"In the farmed meat example, animals are used to provide food for people. In the fighting example, dogs are put in a ring to fight, injure, and in many instances, kill each other, for entertainment? You don't see any distinction between the two?" Macedogg -- No one NEEDS to eat meat, much less farm-raised meat. We could avoid all that cruelty by eating tofu instead. But we don't, because we like the taste of meat -- it pleases the senses. In other words, it's "entertaining." So to answer your question -- no, I don't see any moral distinction between the "entertainment" of dogfighting and the "entertainment" of eating farmed meat.
5/13/07 6:37 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 13-May-07
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Would dogfighting be okay if someone ate the dead dog afterward?
5/13/07 6:37 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 13-May-07
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" no, I don't see any moral distinction between the "entertainment" of dogfighting and the "entertainment" of eating farmed meat." You really shouldn't announce to everyone that you are that dumb.
5/13/07 6:38 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 13-May-07 06:43 PM
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BigBopper--

Fair enough, though I think your premise of comparing "food" to mere entertainment very weak. 

Your attempt to make the two consistent also leaves out an important fact.  The food animals are killed in a fairly humane and quick manner.  To make this "apples" to "apples" as they say, instead, the Cow's should be outfitted with joust like spears, set into a narrow pen, and forced to gore each other in a slow, painful death to the delight of onlookers.  That would make the two situations more comparable.

 

Another point not discussed by the dog fighting advocates.  Also taken from Sam's book.  The animals are raised in isolation.  Complete isolation, and not allowed around other animals.  This is to increase the viciousness in the animals.  That natural as well, something the dogs enjoy? 

5/13/07 6:38 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 13-May-07
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smac1 -- Great argument. I'm 100% convinced by your logical reasoning skills.
5/13/07 6:39 PM
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craftybushidovet
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Edited: 13-May-07
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The dogs want to fight. lol Too bad they can't wear padded gloves and mouthpieces along with rules. An't buying it.
5/13/07 6:40 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 13-May-07
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I wasn't arguing, I was giving you sound advice for free.
5/13/07 6:41 PM
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Brandon Garner
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Edited: 13-May-07
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"Brandon, would you still fight if you or your opponent would be killed after the fight for tapping out? Think about it that way." -no, I wouldn't. And I think dogfighting should be monitored at the same level as MMA. I don't like to see people or animals die in combat. Unfortunately, dogfighting now is a lot like mma 15 years ago.
5/13/07 6:45 PM
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BigBopper
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"Your attempt to make the two consistent also leaves out an important fact. The food animals are killed in a fairly humane and quick manner." Macedogg -- most animals raised for food consumption suffer from horrific conditions throughout their ENTIRE lives, regardless of how they're killed. The overall amount of pain and suffering experienced by farm meat animals is MUCH worse than the pain suffered by fighting dogs. Trust me, you'd much rather be a dog that dies in a dogfight than a cow raised for slaughter. Or go look up the facts at PETA or some such organization if you don't believe me.
5/13/07 6:46 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 13-May-07
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"Unfortunately, dogfighting now is a lot like mma 15 years ago." People were being bred to fight MMA, and then thrown in a pit with no warning to fight to the death and the loser was shot in the head? Which UFC was that, I didn't see that one. Or was it another promotion?
5/13/07 6:49 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 13-May-07 06:53 PM
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PS. I'm not either pro-dogfighting or anti-dogfighting. I've never been to a dogfight, and I don't own an aggressive dog. Rather, I'm arguing against the hypocrisy of people who oppose dogfighting but are cruel to animals in other ways, like eating meat.
5/13/07 6:50 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 13-May-07
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"The overall amount of pain and suffering experienced by farm meat animals is MUCH worse than the pain suffered by fighting dogs." This is a sweeping generalization. While I agree with what you are trying to say you might want to consider qualifying a statement like that. "Or go look up the facts at PETA or some such organization if you don't believe me." Facts and PETA should never be used in the same sentence.
5/13/07 6:51 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 13-May-07
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Bopper--I am not arguing that point at all.  I agree, the lives of some farm meat are atrocious.  That said, I still think there are differences. 
5/13/07 6:52 PM
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UniBrow
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Edited: 13-May-07
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If you cannot see a distinction between killing animals for food and killing them for spectacle, then I can't really see how we can have an intelligent debate on the subject.

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