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S&C UnderGround >> Who's across Intermittent Fasting here?


11/8/12 12:05 AM
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SJFou
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Thinking out loud...

Ive just read Berardi's study: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting
His research was the first readings I ever did on nutrient timing, probably back in 2003. Shows you how far ahead of the curve he is, if he's still leading the way 10 years on. A little of Pilpons stuff too.

I've done Ori Hofmeklers Warrior Diet before & there's a lot more research available now. I'm particularly interested in AM/PM trainers like most MMA guys - conditioning at 6am, Skills 6-8pm 4-5 days a week etc. Assuming you have a 4 hour window of consumption, would you split it into 2x 2 hour "feeds" immediately after each session, giving you 2 8 hour fasts a day?

At the moment I can lift any time of day or night. So, I COULD lift straight after skills then feed or lift depleted in the AM.

It's pretty interesting. Ive been reading up on Martin Berkhan LeanGains too. He advocates a 16/8 fast/feed. If you lifted at 2pm on BCAAs then had 2 feeds then skills at night then your last feed post skills SHOULD still comply with his protocol
11/8/12 8:38 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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If you've ready Martin's stuff then you realize he advocates LIFT VERY HEAVY WEIGHTS, VERY LOW VOLUME. He'll go to failure on almost every exercise.

Plus, remember his IF/LG is for aesthetics not for athletic performance so as usual it depends on your goals. Are you training MMA/martial arts?

 

11/8/12 1:46 PM
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vermonter
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I eat one meal per day, after i exercise. If i worked out twice in a day, then i'd eat twice.
11/8/12 1:47 PM
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vermonter
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Actually, the exception to that is if i went for a run and kept my HR under 150. I probably wouldn't eat after that.
11/8/12 1:47 PM
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vermonter
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Edited: 11/08/12 1:47 PM
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dub
11/8/12 8:59 PM
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SJFou
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At the sec I'm using a conjugate method (ME Upper, DE Lower, RE Upper and ME Lower) for my lifting, Mon, Tues, Thurs and Fri. I should also state my goals are 1) be a guinea pig and 2) Drop from 75kg down to 69kg - I dont really care for BF%s

Yeah, I do MMA skill work as follows (this is the schedule I currently aim for weekly):

Mon - 6am S&C 12pm BJJ/6pm Boxing/730 BJJ
Tues - 6am S&C 630 BJJ/730 BJJ
Wed - 12pm BJJ / 630 Freestyle Wrestling
Thurs - 6am S&C / 630 BJJ/730 BJJ
Fri - 6am S&C / 6pm BJJ / 8pm Bikram
Sat / Sun - No training

I have keys to the gym, so I can lift anytime. I might move my lifting to post skills - just a little worried about how i'm going to feel training for 2-3 hours on BCAAs, haha. Then my training/eating would look as follows:

Mon - 12pm BJJ/6pm Boxing/730 BJJ / 830 S&C - 16/8
Tues - 630 BJJ/730 BJJ /830 S&C - 20/4
Wed - 12pm BJJ / 630 Freestyle Wrestling - 16/8
Thurs - 630 BJJ/730 BJJ / 830pm S&C - 20/4
Fri - 2pm S&C / 6pm BJJ / 8pm Bikram - 16/8 (So Bikrams my last session)
Sat/Sun - 20/4

Thoughts?
11/9/12 8:12 AM
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LCSULLA
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SJFou - At the sec I'm using a conjugate method (ME Upper, DE Lower, RE Upper and ME Lower) for my lifting, Mon, Tues, Thurs and Fri. I should also state my goals are 1) be a guinea pig and 2) Drop from 75kg down to 69kg - I dont really care for BF%s

Yeah, I do MMA skill work as follows (this is the schedule I currently aim for weekly):

Mon - 6am S&C 12pm BJJ/6pm Boxing/730 BJJ
Tues - 6am S&C 630 BJJ/730 BJJ
Wed - 12pm BJJ / 630 Freestyle Wrestling
Thurs - 6am S&C / 630 BJJ/730 BJJ
Fri - 6am S&C / 6pm BJJ / 8pm Bikram
Sat / Sun - No training

I have keys to the gym, so I can lift anytime. I might move my lifting to post skills - just a little worried about how i'm going to feel training for 2-3 hours on BCAAs, haha. Then my training/eating would look as follows:

Mon - 12pm BJJ/6pm Boxing/730 BJJ / 830 S&C - 16/8
Tues - 630 BJJ/730 BJJ /830 S&C - 20/4
Wed - 12pm BJJ / 630 Freestyle Wrestling - 16/8
Thurs - 630 BJJ/730 BJJ / 830pm S&C - 20/4
Fri - 2pm S&C / 6pm BJJ / 8pm Bikram - 16/8 (So Bikrams my last session)
Sat/Sun - 20/4

Thoughts?

I am starting to fiddle with LG myself, so I am not an expert.

But your sch. seems to have a ton of volume. You might not be able to recover doing LG with the above sch.
11/9/12 1:58 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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agreed with above

11/10/12 3:14 PM
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stillmatic
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I don't really see the point in bouncing from 16/8 to 20/4 aside from experimenting and just wanting to see how it works.  

With that kind of training schedule, hitting your macros will be vital if you want to hit your weight goal without losing muscle, but at the same time if you don't care about BF %, this doesn't matter.  Your TDEE is going to be very high and you're also going to need to consume a ton of calories in those 1-2 meals, which many would find difficult to do.  

 

 

11/11/12 5:49 PM
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rpribyl
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I've been following a personalized if routine. If you ate trying to drop weight, it does work, but you will also find that making gains will be very difficult. For what I need it is working great.

I'm trying to restructure myself and drop bf% while trying not to lose too much muscle. I fast 24 hrs For 2 days in a row. Then eat 2 or 3 meals the next day. Then fast for 24 hrs again for 2 days. Then 2 or 3 meals for the next 2 days (this is my weekend and when I spend the majority of my time with the gf or others. This avoids any awkward "im not eating today guys" moments when we're out or something) repeat. Phone Post
11/11/12 7:33 PM
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SJFou
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Yeah, definitely thinking id have to get some liquid nutrition in to make up the cals. That being said some of those BJJ classes im an active coach, not a student. Ive got to re-look at a couple of things but only one of finding out.

Stillmatic - def no science behind switching from 16/8 to 20/4, just convenience. I teach in classrooms all day Sat & Sun, usually find im too busy to eat during the day anyway and the 16/8s are the days where I have an earlier session scheduled.

Rpribyl - by gains you're referring to muscle mass?
11/11/12 10:25 PM
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rpribyl
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Yes muscle mass, I'm not dropping any, but I'm not gaining any mass either, which is really my goal anyway. Just trying to maintain what I have while dropping bf%.

I am still seeing small but steady gains in my lifts, and my cardio is thankfully unaffected by the lack of food on my fasting days.

Drinking a lot of water has been key for me during this whole thing. I'm at work by 6 am and usually have downed a gallon by 12. It's a lot but I need it avoid any unnecessary eating.

So far I'm down 25 solid pounds, and the majority has to be fat because my frame and strength havent really been affected. Phone Post
11/11/12 10:28 PM
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rpribyl
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You are a lot more active than me as I usually work 12 hour days 3 days a week, and 2 slightly shorter days, so I'm worried that if you do what I do you might begin to lose muscle mass and find that you are fatigued earlier in your bjj and boxing sessions. Phone Post
11/12/12 7:43 AM
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SJFou
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Thanks for your help and insights guys!
11/12/12 11:44 AM
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stillmatic
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Definitely a good idea to concentrate on one goal at a time.  The problem with most people is they want to do everything at once.  You'll have your typical dude in ok shape around 16% body fat that wants to get ripped and add muscle.  He'll be on a program where he restricts his calories by too much while lifting a muscle building rep scheme like 8-12 reps and wonder why he gets no results.  The huge caloric deficit is eating at his muscle while his rep scheme is trying to build it.  This makes the work he's doing counterproductive and he gets nowhere as a result.

It's possible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but you won't be doing it efficiently like if you were bulking up.  Lifting heavy with a low rep scheme will help you maintain your muscle while cutting fat.  Also not having too big of a caloric deficit will ensure you aren't losing muscle along with your fat in the weight you lose.  

11/12/12 5:18 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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I think even though your science is way off, stillmatic, that's still a fair assessment. 

Every thing most people try to accomplish depends on a specific biological condition and like he stated people try to bunch too many things together. 

Even MB from LeanGains, if pressed, will tell you as much and if you do some forum searching, even on here, you'll see people having a hard time gaining lean mass on IF and even on Paleo (more often than not)

11/22/12 12:52 AM
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RONINXOM
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Later Phone Post

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