UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Weight Matters


11/18/12 2:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 243
 
MMA isn't boxing, divisions are too far apart. Jones>Silva>GSP. It's that simple. I would buy a super fight between Jones and Silva or Silva and GSP, but we all know how either one would end: the bigger man wins. Jones wrestles Silva to death and Silva KO/TKO's GSP. What's the problem with staying in your own division? You can't compare GSP going up 15 pounds after his first back to fight the best ever to Manny going up a few pounds naturally every year or two to fight contenders.
11/18/12 2:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
orcus
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/1/03
Posts: 74142

What's the relevance of how far apart the divisions are? Shouldn't we instead focus on the actual weight difference between the two fighters in question?

11/18/12 2:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
615 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 15248

11/19/12 5:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 244
12SixElbow - 


What's BJ's record at WW in the UFC? 2-4-1, with his only wins coming against Hughes. He's not big enough for GSP.!
11/19/12 5:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 245
irishman84 - 
12SixElbow - 


This and many other examples. The bigger guy DOESN'T always win. This is nonsense. and what the fuck do you clowns care anyways if these guys want to go up they obviously think they can win. Douche bags!!!

I love bj, but what has he done at WW other than beat Hughes? Also, give me "many other examples?"
11/19/12 5:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 246
irishman84 - 
12SixElbow - 


This and many other examples. The bigger guy DOESN'T always win. This is nonsense. and what the fuck do you clowns care anyways if these guys want to go up they obviously think they can win. Douche bags!!!

And what do you mean these guys want to go up? GSP obviously doesn't want to go up, he's being forced to. If he doesn't he'll be called a pussy for ducking Silva.
11/19/12 5:41 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 247
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
12SixElbow - 


What's BJ's record at WW in the UFC? 2-4-1, with his only wins coming against Hughes. He's not big enough for GSP.!

what does that matter let BJ worry about his record. He got the belt didn't he? He could be 1-100 if that win was a title fight.

I have nothing to say to that, that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
11/19/12 5:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 248
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
12SixElbow - 


What's BJ's record at WW in the UFC? 2-4-1, with his only wins coming against Hughes. He's not big enough for GSP.!

what does that matter let BJ worry about his record. He got the belt didn't he? He could be 1-100 if that win was a title fight.

I have nothing to say to that, that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

go smoke your shitty commercial and let me handle the thinking

Haha, OK, a guy w/a 1-100 record at a higher weight would be great way to show the little man doesn't always lose.
11/19/12 5:52 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Foob
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/11/11
Posts: 356
thats why sakuraba was such a badass, but i agree with you, at this level, the weight difference will be too much of a factor
11/19/12 5:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 249
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
12SixElbow - 


What's BJ's record at WW in the UFC? 2-4-1, with his only wins coming against Hughes. He's not big enough for GSP.!

what does that matter let BJ worry about his record. He got the belt didn't he? He could be 1-100 if that win was a title fight.

I have nothing to say to that, that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

go smoke your shitty commercial and let me handle the thinking

Haha, OK, a guy w/a 1-100 record at a higher weight would be great way to show the little man doesn't always lose.

do you know the definition of the word ALWAYS bro?

Really, that's all you have, semantics? Yes, I know the definition of "always" you dumb fuck, you also know what the fuck I'm saying. There's always going to be outliers, but for most cases, the bigger man wins. You take equally skilled opponents, with a gap in weight, the bigger man will win 8 out of 10 times.
11/19/12 5:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 250
Foob - thats why sakuraba was such a badass, but i agree with you, at this level, the weight difference will be too much of a factor

Thank you, the skill level is too high now, you do what Sak did these days.
11/19/12 5:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 251
*can't
11/19/12 6:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 252
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
12SixElbow - 


What's BJ's record at WW in the UFC? 2-4-1, with his only wins coming against Hughes. He's not big enough for GSP.!

what does that matter let BJ worry about his record. He got the belt didn't he? He could be 1-100 if that win was a title fight.

I have nothing to say to that, that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.

go smoke your shitty commercial and let me handle the thinking

Haha, OK, a guy w/a 1-100 record at a higher weight would be great way to show the little man doesn't always lose.

do you know the definition of the word ALWAYS bro?

Really, that's all you have, semantics? Yes, I know the definition of "always" you dumb fuck, you also know what the fuck I'm saying. There's always going to be outliers, but for most cases, the bigger man wins. You take equally skilled opponents, with a gap in weight, the bigger man will win 8 out of 10 times.

yes i know what ur saying. im saying the same thing. Only they arent outliers. its not a random variable who can and cant fight outside their weightclass. Yes for the vast majority of fighters its unreasonable for them to do it. Thats why its reserved for the best of the best. Its one of the most appreciated accomplishments in the sport for most observers. Guys that did it successfully get a special admiration. Queers like u trying to shut down that possibility is ridic and why? because ur worried they are being peer pressured? gtfoh

I'm not worried about anything you mental midget. All that I'm saying is let the man fight in his own division. I said in my op that I would pay to watch the fight, but to me it's not necessary. Why put an entire division on hold for a fight that everyone knows isn't truly fair. You say guys that "did" it successfully, well, the landscape has changed buddy. You no longer have BJ coming up because WW ran out of contenders, or Randy coming out of retirement because there is no good fighters in the heavyweight division. Every division is stacked now, with an onslaught of contenders waiting. I'll watch the Silva/GSP fight and enjoy, but personally I'd rather watch GSP fight Hendricks or Diaz, those fights are just as intriguing. Also, do you know the meaning of variable? A fighter would be a data point, a win or lose would be a variable, and these days the outcome of a fight between two differently sized opponents at equal skill would be a dependent variable, dependent on weight.
11/19/12 5:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bhealthy
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/14/06
Posts: 16715
prime motivated BJ was a badass, but still way to small for gsp
11/19/12 6:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/13/11
Posts: 14722

There are already 5-20 lb weight discrepencies in every division as it is....

 

The gap between GSP/Andy in the cage would be less than 10 pounds. I can name DOZENS of fights over the last couple years where this happens. Sonnen was 215-218 vs Silva and Andy was 198. The "bigger guy wins" theory is bullshit. Edgar beat Maynard dispite giving up 10-15lbs.

11/19/12 6:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/13/11
Posts: 14723
orcus - 

What's the relevance of how far apart the divisions are? Shouldn't we instead focus on the actual weight difference between the two fighters in question?


This. There are already bigger weight gaps than GSP/Andy happening in many cards, within divisions.

11/19/12 6:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/13/11
Posts: 14728
irishman84 - 
UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up - 
orcus - 

What's the relevance of how far apart the divisions are? Shouldn't we instead focus on the actual weight difference between the two fighters in question?


This. There are already bigger weight gaps than GSP/Andy happening in many cards, within divisions.


yeah but we need to protect these guys lest they be pressured by promoters and fans to take a fight they really dont want.

"Georges St-Pierre told me he wants (to fight Anderson Silva). But right now he has to get back on the horse and fight Carlos Condit and be champion again. He needs to keep focused. (If the Silva fight happens) ideally I'd like a catch weight. I think it'd be more fair. If you fight at a catch weight, Silva won't be 20 pounds heavier. 177 or 178 pounds is much more fair."- Firas Zahabi...

11/19/12 6:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimbonice
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/13/12
Posts: 270
Royce did purty good. Phone Post
11/19/12 7:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 261
irishman84 - ha of course you are right; i'm a mental midget. and "fighter" or "combatant" isn't a categorical variable which, concerning the history of bouts featuring fighters/ combatants competing outside their natural divisions, could be analyzed and described as random vs displaying correlation to quantitative variables like record, discrepancy in size relative to opponent, or age. I probably took the same fucking STATS 144 & 174 classes you did bud.

In our discussion, "fighter" or "combatant" would be used as a nominal level of measurement, while record, weight, etc. would be variables. You truly mean to tell me you believe there would be no correlation between weight and record?
11/19/12 7:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ranier wolfcastle
875 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/28/03
Posts: 58600

bj should return to 155

11/19/12 7:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jetster
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/25/02
Posts: 7727
Lol at using BJ as an example he has not done well at WW his record shows it and he's been raped by GSP, so he won the title ok but other than victories over 1 fighter he has not done well and he is a great fighter, A.Silva does not want to fight the bigger guy in Jones either....GSP is being pushed on Silva Like Silva is being pushed on Jones....weight matters big time!
11/19/12 7:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 262
somebrownwhiteguy -  While you ladies argue it up (didn't give two fucks to read after there were quotes of quotes, of quotes from those quotes..) I have one question to ask all of you..

Aldo vs Edgar

Who and why? Will weight become a factor in this matchup?






















Wait, I mean three questions Phone Post

To this, I believe Aldo wins, I also believe he will be the bigger opponent (weight) come fight night. Edgar is the one exception lately, but I don't think GSP can handle the GOAT while giving away 10 plus pounds, height and reach.
11/19/12 7:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 263
ranier wolfcastle - 

bj should return to 155


I'd love to see that, but I don't think he wants to.
11/19/12 7:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hunter V
34 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 9082
Foob - thats why sakuraba was such a badass, but i agree with you, at this level, the weight difference will be too much of a factor

that is also why Sakuraba is also a shell of his former self. Weight classes exist for a reason and he is a PRIME example of what happens when you force guys to fight outside of where they should be fighting at.
11/19/12 10:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 267
irishman84 - 
NastyNate420 - 
irishman84 - ha of course you are right; i'm a mental midget. and "fighter" or "combatant" isn't a categorical variable which, concerning the history of bouts featuring fighters/ combatants competing outside their natural divisions, could be analyzed and described as random vs displaying correlation to quantitative variables like record, discrepancy in size relative to opponent, or age. I probably took the same fucking STATS 144 & 174 classes you did bud.

In our discussion, "fighter" or "combatant" would be used as a nominal level of measurement, while record, weight, etc. would be variables. You truly mean to tell me you believe there would be no correlation between weight and record?

no like i said i agree with pretty much everything u said including how the game has changed from the old school era of specialist. Your outlier comment was what made me go about about the whole "its not random which guys had success moving up or down aka outliers". Outliers implies a random exception to the pattern and while i agree the guys that have success are the exception (to the weight-record correlation), i dont agree that its random and unethical or whatever u want to call it for the few, best-of-the-best, to fight outside their div. and while the fighters in the situation we were debating arent a classic quantitative variable, they are categorical. look into categorical variable.

I understand that, but "fighters/combatants" aren't something that we are picking/choosing, they aren't variables in our particular case, in our situation they're nominal levels of measurement. If we had a survey and your favorite fighter was the question, than the answer would be a categorical variable, but in our particular case it (fighter/combatant) is what we're measuring. I do understand what you're saying now though, I don't believe it's unethical , I just think if GSP wants to fight in his division instead of going up in weight he shouldn't be frowned upon. I actually believe it makes moral sense for him to stay at WW, there's a good heap of contenders at WW, it's not fair to make an entire division wait. As a fan, I'm not clamoring for GSP and Silva, but if it happens I will watch it with excitement, I'm just not crying for it.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.