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UnderGround Forums >> Congrats to Marquez: Sweet justice?


12/9/12 3:01 AM
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Wasa-B
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Assuming he passes the piss test, in which he doesnt, would make this situation even more crazy....congrats to Marquez for after 3 close fights with the boxer who was called the greatest of his generation and even though was considered #3 P4P for ages, was hardly ever mentioned as the premier guys outside Pac and Floyd.

I didnt see the first 2 Pac/JMM fights in full, I thought Marquez won the 3rd (though still in a close fight). Tonight was wild with Pac coming back to show the zest that made him so good - the speed, the footwork, etc. He got knocked down pretty badly and even had to take a second to recover after trying to get up i thought but then had his own knockdown and then had JMM hurt later that round was it where JMM was holding on rubbery legs but still firing back.

Pac seemed to be leading but JMM was still sharp and dangerous and that 5th round was it was almost over and Pac walked right into it. BAM. Manny Pacquiao knocked out...cold. Was pretty scary for a while....i knew it was over after about the 1st count and he lay motion less.

So here are my questions:

1) Does anyone want to see a 5th fight?

2) Will or should Manny retire?

3) Does Manny still have the power and speed to maintain his style? He hadnt had a KO in like 3 years

4) How could 3 fights that went so close, so evenly match end with a KTFO like that? I guess as they said, JMM is the best counter puncher in the game...but what about Floyd?

5) Was Floyd that much better overall than JMM or was it a style thing or size?

6) Manny was supposed to have won the 1st fight on the cards if not for the scoring error: do most people think he clearly won that?

7) Most people and writers thought JMM won fight 3, what about fight 2? I think the HBO commentators tonight mentioned a narrow majority of writers though JMM won fight 2

8) Pac's heart and body still seemed to be into it but its clear he's peaked, is it worth another fight or 2? With who?

9) Has there ever been a 4 fight rivalry prior in boxing?

* Props to both guys for giving each other props after, I just cant believe JMM capitalized and finished the business in crazy fashion like this.

Insane.
12/9/12 3:02 AM
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Wasa-B
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Also, regarding those mentioning JMM's new size/power, that shot that did Pac in, admittedly by Pac, he got careless and walked right into it and never saw it coming.
12/9/12 3:03 AM
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Wasa-B
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And...Pac always had a pretty good chin, didnt he? The best JMM did was wobble him in the 2nd round of fight 2?
12/9/12 3:05 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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No

No

Yes

Floyd

Floyd is better

Not clearly

JMM won 3, lost 2

Bradley/Pac II

Yes, even more than 4.

12/9/12 3:07 AM
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darkness66
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I'll bet Mayweather will be happy to fight manny now Phone Post
12/9/12 3:09 AM
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PrettyBoy
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Marquez beat him every fight. I'm glad he finally took it out of the judges hands.

Lol at any Pacfans yelling steroids. Just deserts. Phone Post
12/9/12 3:10 AM
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Wasa-B
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ttt
12/9/12 3:13 AM
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Tom O'BentOverByFitch
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lol Bonds hit the nail (or the Pacman) on the head. Mayweather would put the lights out in the same way. Phone Post
12/9/12 3:17 AM
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Wasa-B
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I think Pac should get respect though for making the 4th fight. He had 2 wins on paper and still wanted to better the rep or legacy i guess?
12/9/12 3:18 AM
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Wasa-B
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Tom O'BentOverByFitch -  lol Bonds hit the nail (or the Pacman) on the head. Mayweather would put the lights out in the same way. Phone Post

I appreciate Bonds input as well.

But do "would"'s matter?
12/9/12 3:21 AM
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Sho_Gunn
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Wasa-B - I think Pac should get respect though for making the 4th fight. He had 2 wins on paper and still wanted to better the rep or legacy i guess?

This is what ive been saying. Pac already had to wins on paper and didnt have to accept any rematch. We all know (Pac and Roach included) that Marquez is just a perfect style vs Pac and caused him a shit load of trouble. Personally id like to see a 5th fight as long as Pac wants it. Im sure Marquez would give it to him being the classy guy he is. 

12/9/12 3:29 AM
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Wasa-B
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Sho_nuff.
12/9/12 3:29 AM
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Wasa-B
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Sho_Gunn - 
Wasa-B - I think Pac should get respect though for making the 4th fight. He had 2 wins on paper and still wanted to better the rep or legacy i guess?

This is what ive been saying. Pac already had to wins on paper and didnt have to accept any rematch. We all know (Pac and Roach included) that Marquez is just a perfect style vs Pac and caused him a shit load of trouble. Personally id like to see a 5th fight as long as Pac wants it. Im sure Marquez would give it to him being the classy guy he is. 


And suppose this is why both Pac and JMM will have the respect that Floyd doesnt.
12/9/12 12:07 PM
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Tom O'BentOverByFitch
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Wasa-B - 
Sho_Gunn - 
Wasa-B - I think Pac should get respect though for making the 4th fight. He had 2 wins on paper and still wanted to better the rep or legacy i guess?

This is what ive been saying. Pac already had to wins on paper and didnt have to accept any rematch. We all know (Pac and Roach included) that Marquez is just a perfect style vs Pac and caused him a shit load of trouble. Personally id like to see a 5th fight as long as Pac wants it. Im sure Marquez would give it to him being the classy guy he is. 


And suppose this is why both Pac and JMM will have the respect that Floyd doesnt.

I think (pure speculation) that Pacquiao was looking for another fight where he was confident he could get a W and get back to the status he had before the Bradley fight.

 

 

12/9/12 1:48 PM
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Wasa-B
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Tom O'BentOverByFitch - 
Wasa-B - 
Sho_Gunn - 
Wasa-B - I think Pac should get respect though for making the 4th fight. He had 2 wins on paper and still wanted to better the rep or legacy i guess?

This is what ive been saying. Pac already had to wins on paper and didnt have to accept any rematch. We all know (Pac and Roach included) that Marquez is just a perfect style vs Pac and caused him a shit load of trouble. Personally id like to see a 5th fight as long as Pac wants it. Im sure Marquez would give it to him being the classy guy he is. 


And suppose this is why both Pac and JMM will have the respect that Floyd doesnt.

I think (pure speculation) that Pacquiao was looking for another fight where he was confident he could get a W and get back to the status he had before the Bradley fight.

 

 


Against a guy who he had that much trouble with over 3 different occasions? Every knew he beat Bradley anyhow....
12/9/12 2:46 PM
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Wasa-B
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Suppose this is much greater a win for JMM than say Rampage over Wand in their 3rd fight.

Seems like a very interesting rivalry, Pac and JMM over the ocurse of the 4 fights being that the last one was so good as well.
12/9/12 3:54 PM
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sniper1026
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See...

http://www.nowboxing.com/2012/12/juan-manuel-marquez-on-peds-or-not/26160/
12/9/12 3:54 PM
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sniper1026
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Edited: 12/09/12 3:57 PM
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Marquez Fitness Coach Is Known PED Peddler

December 7, 2012, 6:55pm




LAS VEGAS — Angel Heredia is unleashing a monster Saturday night at the MGM Grand.

The prototype’s name is Juan Manuel Marquez.

Heredia, a conditioning coach and sports scientist notorious for supplying performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) to track stars Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, is working closely with Marquez as the Mexican gets ready to rumble Saturday night against Manny Pacquiao at the MGM Grand.

A Top Rank publicist, who is assigned as Team Marquez’s pointman, said on Thursday that he has seen a big change in Marquez’s training habits.

“Before, Marquez would just stay in his room in the final days leading to a fight,” said Jimenez.

Not anymore, said Jimenez.

Since Marquez acquired the services of Heredia (real name Angel Hernandez), he has seen and felt major changes in his physical conditioning and the result of his third fight with Pacquiao is a testament to Heredia’s expertise.

The first two fights, Pacquiao scored knockdowns against Marquez but in the third, Marquez hardly blinked even after having been struck by Pacquiao’s best blow.

Jimenez said Marquez, who has bulked up, continues to spend quality time doing Heredia’s special exercises featuring medicine balls and skipping ropes used in a bizarre manner apart from doing morning workouts in the track oval of the University of Nevada-Las Vegas.

Marquez, who turned 39 last August, admits having felt a resurgence of energy ever since he hooked up with Heredia.

But Jimenez said that lead trainer Ignacio “Nacho” Beristain is closely watching the proceedings and would intervene whenever he thinks that Marquez is going overboard with Heredia’s weird stuff.

“Nacho would remind Marquez not to overdo it because he might get tight during the fight.”

On Friday afternoon, the official weighin, Heredia will provide the public a sneak-peek into his experiment.
12/9/12 4:07 PM
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mygodthisMMA
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Going into this fight I had their trilogy scored 1-1-1 or 2-0-1 for JMM and both wins I could score it a round in favor of either fighter.

Floyd beat the shit out of JMM because he is an even better counter puncher than Marquez. JMM against a pressure fighter...he eats em up. I've never seen a fighter as good at changing strategies in the heat of the moment. Not just between rounds. He is so smart and composed you will see him make the right adjustments almost mid exchange.

Manny didnt take this fight to get a win and get back on track. If he wanted to do that he wouldve rematched Bradley and beat his ass again. He knew his story with Marquez wasnt finished and Manny understands his legacy will be built off of legendary rights, not wins. Some guys (like PBF) don't ever get that because their ego and narcissism blinds them.

Marquez deserved a victory like that. He has probably been greater than Barrera and Morales but never as popular orrespected by the public. Now you can say without a doubt that Marquez is the greatest Mexican boxer of his time and one of the best of all time. Im so happy for him and Nacho. Phone Post
12/9/12 4:13 PM
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sniper1026
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Juan Manuel Marquez on PED’s or Not?

Sunday, December 9, 2012

By Bert Perez

Three years ago, when Juan Manuel Marquez was 36, he moved up from lightweight to welterweight to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. at a catch-weight of 144 pounds. Marquez looked puny next to Floyd and had no muscle definition and a soft gut. It was hardly a surprise, though, since Marquez had never weighed more than 135 lbs in a fight and weighed less than 130 in 50 of his 55 fights to that point.

Now, Marquez’s physique has undergone a transformation every bit as dramatic as the one baseball star Barry Bonds did in the second half of his legendary career. He has big, bulging biceps, thick shoulders and a wide, broad chest. He accomplished this after he turned 38 and only after he hired Angel Memo Heredia as his strength and conditioning coach.

Everybody knows that Memo was a key witness against track coach Trevor Graham during the BALCO scandal & Memo avoided prosecution by testifying against Graham. Most importantly, Memo admitted providing Graham’s athletes, including Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery and Justin Gatlin, with steroids, EPO and human growth hormone.

Marquez first hired Memo prior to his third fight with Manny Pacquiao. While Marquez was bigger in that fight than he was when he met Mayweather in 2009, he was nowhere near as big or defined as he is now. You’d have to be blind and naive to believe that Marquez — a man who used to drink his own urine before a fight — isn’t onto something. If a guy is willing enough to drink his own urine, how easy would it be to go the extra mile to finally beat Pacquiao? After fighting Pacquiao three times without scoring a knockdown, all of a sudden Marquez now becomes a one-punch KO artist?

He finally got the coveted victory of Pacquiao, but in this case by what methods and at what cost? I am in no way accusing Marquez of taking something illegal, but many people not only myself are curious about what type of methods Marquez used to transform his body.

The rumors got started because of Marquez’s hiring of a known steroids distributor and the subsequent dramatic transformation of his body.


12/9/12 4:39 PM
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ANT_P1989
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Lol JuanMa has used this same strength and conditioning coach before and passed with flying colors. He WILL NOT be failing any tests.

Also who's been monitoring his muscle gain anyways? The man is still a man, can he not move up in weight and pack on muscle? He was STILL lighter than Manny was.

That punch was bound to find it's mark sooner or later. Also take into consideration that Manny has been cold clocked TWICE before at LIGHTER WEIGHTS, so it's unusual if someone FINALLY lands clean and puts him away at an even HEAVIER weight???

Also Manny RAN INTO the punch, it's his body mass and head colliding HEAD ON into a beautiful SOUTHPAW KILLER...THE RIGHT HAND..... Phone Post
12/9/12 4:41 PM
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stillmatic
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The testing is a joke anyways.  It would be shocking if he failed it if anything when he has guys in his corner that know how to easily beat it if they really needed to.

12/9/12 5:19 PM
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KingOfFighters
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Sho_Gunn -
Wasa-B - I think Pac should get respect though for making the 4th fight. He had 2 wins on paper and still wanted to better the rep or legacy i guess?

This is what ive been saying. Pac already had to wins on paper and didnt have to accept any rematch. We all know (Pac and Roach included) that Marquez is just a perfect style vs Pac and caused him a shit load of trouble. Personally id like to see a 5th fight as long as Pac wants it. Im sure Marquez would give it to him being the classy guy he is. 

The reason for the rematches is because everyone thought, jmm beat pacqaio, pac wanted to.squash that Phone Post
12/9/12 5:31 PM
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mygodthisMMA
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ANT_P1989 - Lol JuanMa has used this same strength and conditioning coach before and passed with flying colors. He WILL NOT be failing any tests.

Also who's been monitoring his muscle gain anyways? The man is still a man, can he not move up in weight and pack on muscle? He was STILL lighter than Manny was.

That punch was bound to find it's mark sooner or later. Also take into consideration that Manny has been cold clocked TWICE before at LIGHTER WEIGHTS, so it's unusual if someone FINALLY lands clean and puts him away at an even HEAVIER weight???

Also Manny RAN INTO the punch, it's his body mass and head colliding HEAD ON into a beautiful SOUTHPAW KILLER...THE RIGHT HAND..... Phone Post
To be fair he got stopped by body punches at 112 pounds in fights that were probably held in a barn in the Phillippines. Phone Post
12/9/12 6:12 PM
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Wasa-B
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mygodthisMMA -  Going into this fight I had their trilogy scored 1-1-1 or 2-0-1 for JMM and both wins I could score it a round in favor of either fighter.

Floyd beat the shit out of JMM because he is an even better counter puncher than Marquez. JMM against a pressure fighter...he eats em up. I've never seen a fighter as good at changing strategies in the heat of the moment. Not just between rounds. He is so smart and composed you will see him make the right adjustments almost mid exchange.

Manny didnt take this fight to get a win and get back on track. If he wanted to do that he wouldve rematched Bradley and beat his ass again. He knew his story with Marquez wasnt finished and Manny understands his legacy will be built off of legendary rights, not wins. Some guys (like PBF) don't ever get that because their ego and narcissism blinds them.

Marquez deserved a victory like that. He has probably been greater than Barrera and Morales but never as popular orrespected by the public. Now you can say without a doubt that Marquez is the greatest Mexican boxer of his time and one of the best of all time. Im so happy for him and Nacho. Phone Post

Great post. Agreed on all counts.

Pac could have easily taken and easily beaten Bradley again but took a dangerous fight against his toughest nemesis for legacy.

And yes, now JMM not only comes out of Pac's shadow but out of Morrales and Barrera. So JMM never fought Morales? He did beat Barrera....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1433766-juan-manuel-marquez-and-the-5-best-mexican-fighters-of-this-era

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