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UnderGround Forums >> The vegas crowds are getting worse


12/30/12 8:51 AM
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yellow's Tap In
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The crowd was half Brazilian, they were pissed. They chanted cigano even in round 5 but don't like to lose. I was there, both fighters deserved adulation Phone Post
12/30/12 10:04 AM
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The_KoJ
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Alcohol isn't the only problem in Vegas. I just don't see how they can justify having events at what seem like half empty arenas when they could go just about anywhere else and sell out. Phone Post
12/30/12 10:22 AM
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RPBJJ
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Vegas is like Chicago. Great city filled to the rim with douche. Phone Post
12/30/12 10:45 AM
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udk
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Vegas is the asshole of America. Phone Post
12/30/12 10:53 AM
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6ULDV8
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Who was the judge that scored it 30-27 for Guillard in his fight against Varner?  Why don't they name the judges when they give the score?

 

Judges need to start getting called out for their shitty scoring and should have to answer for it.  Imagine if that fight had gone to Guillard because 2 of the judges scored it that way?

12/30/12 11:03 AM
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Wasa-B
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sillyscreenname - I think the booing of JDS had less do with Vegas but with all the Mexicans coming to see Cain.

Doesnt happen in boxing though.

Does this mean the UFC brings out the worst in Mexicans as well as others?

Booing JDS is a fucking disgrace.

God, i fucking hate this "sport" so often
12/30/12 11:04 AM
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Wasa-B
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udk -  Vegas is the asshole of America. Phone Post

it may shoot out shit but the food they take in to digest comes from all across the nation, no?
12/30/12 6:49 PM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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Wasa-B -
udk -  Vegas is the asshole of America. Phone Post

it may shoot out shit but the food they take in to digest comes from all across the nation, no?
I like that analogy Phone Post
12/31/12 12:10 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Wasa-B - 
udk -  Vegas is the asshole of America. Phone Post

it may shoot out shit but the food they take in to digest comes from all across the nation, no?

To follow your metaphor, the food is transformed by the digestive system. It goes through a process, one anticipated by the visitors.

I don't think you're off the mark with your implication, though---America is a culture of "production" and especially in this gizmo age, people take their cue (ie, what to think) from the promoter's productive agenda, which is to put people in seats, something in turn accomplished by entertaining.

Since Vegas is ALL about entertainment, and UFC is just one of countless shows offered in that category, the crowd will of course predominantly reflect that. Especially since the UFC is no longer a novelty, people will demand higher and higher standards of "entertainment" and boo as a result, thinking that their reaction shows honest discrimination.

The problem of booing in general is caused by the false dilemma of viewing MMA as either "sports" or "entertainment". The problem with this view is that both of them reflect the promoter's interests. Either perspective will put butts in seats ("I wanna see who the best is!" is functionally no different from "I want to be entertained!") and so the promoter can sell either of these viewpoints to make $$.

What has no traction in this country are the entwined aspects comprising a fighter's point of view: of the man trying to make a living AND express himself (what he essentially takes himself to be). Simply put, some people take themselves to be fighters and want to make a living at it. American audiences are fickle because they don't appreciate this viewpoint. They tend to see things from the point of view of entitlement, and when you bring this predisposition to Vegas, the result is a gathering of twisted little Roman emperors hissing about the lack of gore.

Or more generally, just hissing period, thinking that this shows their finely tuned, discriminatory nature, a sexy little "hard to please" attitude that in reality comes off the promoter's script.

This is a complicated though and there is much to debate. As for boxing, as to why there is less booing, I think this is because it's an older sport, and its roots are better in touch with the fighter's point of view (the sense of imperial entitlement was not yet out of control, since the amount of entertainment available was substantially less).

My 2 cents.
12/31/12 12:32 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Edited: 12/31/12 12:32 AM
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Bottom line for me, Vegas can easily bring out the worse in people, but the majority of people in America have a character and set of values that are highly entertainment driven.
12/31/12 4:44 AM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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WoodenPupa - 
Wasa-B - 
udk -  Vegas is the asshole of America. Phone Post

it may shoot out shit but the food they take in to digest comes from all across the nation, no?

To follow your metaphor, the food is transformed by the digestive system. It goes through a process, one anticipated by the visitors.

I don't think you're off the mark with your implication, though---America is a culture of "production" and especially in this gizmo age, people take their cue (ie, what to think) from the promoter's productive agenda, which is to put people in seats, something in turn accomplished by entertaining.

Since Vegas is ALL about entertainment, and UFC is just one of countless shows offered in that category, the crowd will of course predominantly reflect that. Especially since the UFC is no longer a novelty, people will demand higher and higher standards of "entertainment" and boo as a result, thinking that their reaction shows honest discrimination.

The problem of booing in general is caused by the false dilemma of viewing MMA as either "sports" or "entertainment". The problem with this view is that both of them reflect the promoter's interests. Either perspective will put butts in seats ("I wanna see who the best is!" is functionally no different from "I want to be entertained!") and so the promoter can sell either of these viewpoints to make $$.

What has no traction in this country are the entwined aspects comprising a fighter's point of view: of the man trying to make a living AND express himself (what he essentially takes himself to be). Simply put, some people take themselves to be fighters and want to make a living at it. American audiences are fickle because they don't appreciate this viewpoint. They tend to see things from the point of view of entitlement, and when you bring this predisposition to Vegas, the result is a gathering of twisted little Roman emperors hissing about the lack of gore.

Or more generally, just hissing period, thinking that this shows their finely tuned, discriminatory nature, a sexy little "hard to please" attitude that in reality comes off the promoter's script.

This is a complicated though and there is much to debate. As for boxing, as to why there is less booing, I think this is because it's an older sport, and its roots are better in touch with the fighter's point of view (the sense of imperial entitlement was not yet out of control, since the amount of entertainment available was substantially less).

My 2 cents.

Great great post. Vote up. Appreciate that kind of insight good sir. I do want to expand on that later when I find better words to phrase it. 

12/31/12 4:50 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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Michael Kn1ght - 
ChaosOverkill -

Booing Wineland vs Pickett every 3 second dip in the action

Booing JDS and being a shitty booing disgrace at other points for various reasons.

 

Boo the Leben Brunson fight and those types, fine that happens everywhere but the rest is just a bunch of spoiled wankers who get too many cards a year.

 

Not to mention the judging that sucks from Vegas even more than most places

The leben fight I def got though, not gonna lie. Phone Post

No thats what I was trying to say, Brunson made it easy to boo that fight which I can understand.

 

The rest was a disgrace.

 

The sense of entitlement by some Western Crowds is totally and utterly embarassing

12/31/12 4:57 AM
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SamboSlim187
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They paid, they can boo. If MMA wants to be main stream, getting booed comes with the territory. Go see another sport live and you'll hear plenty of boos. Difference is fans of that sport aren't self-entitled crybaby pussies like this new breed of MMA fan so you won't see countless threads about it after every event/game. Cheering/booing is part of watching sports. Phone Post
12/31/12 5:03 AM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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ChaosOverkill - 
Michael Kn1ght - 
ChaosOverkill -

Booing Wineland vs Pickett every 3 second dip in the action

Booing JDS and being a shitty booing disgrace at other points for various reasons.

 

Boo the Leben Brunson fight and those types, fine that happens everywhere but the rest is just a bunch of spoiled wankers who get too many cards a year.

 

Not to mention the judging that sucks from Vegas even more than most places

The leben fight I def got though, not gonna lie. Phone Post

No thats what I was trying to say, Brunson made it easy to boo that fight which I can understand.

 

The rest was a disgrace.

 

The sense of entitlement by some Western Crowds is totally and utterly embarassing


I think most of the boo's come from a lack of education on the sport. JDS kept escaping the ground position and taking shots that put away most of his fellow HW's. Velasquez's ability to keep pushing the pace and maintaining strong offense is hard to survive, and not only did JDS accomplish staying in the fight, he did something most HW's cannot, and bring Velasquez into later rounds, and tire him out. 

 

Short moral victories like that should be applauded. Such as Penn's achievement of never being knocked down. Velasquez was known to have endless cardio, and Junior took him outside of that. Belfort getting Jon Jon's into an armbar when he was considered the underdog and exposing a small weakness is incredible. Little things like that should be announced more and appreciated. One of the reasons each fighter stands out, and can add more to their opponents credibility. Such as Sonnen ALMOST beating SIlva is a huge accomplishment and sky rocketed him into high ranks. 

12/31/12 5:10 AM
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Spiderknows
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Anyone booing JDS at the end of his fight should hang their hungover head in shame and never attend a live show again. Phone Post
12/31/12 5:12 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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SamboSlim187 -  They paid, they can boo. If MMA wants to be main stream, getting booed comes with the territory. Go see another sport live and you'll hear plenty of boos. Difference is fans of that sport aren't self-entitled crybaby pussies like this new breed of MMA fan so you won't see countless threads about it after every event/game. Cheering/booing is part of watching sports. Phone Post

How often do you see the LOSING fighter who gave the WINNING fighter a great fight booed like that?

12/31/12 5:15 AM
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ChaosOverkill
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Plus people CAN do a lot of shit, does if mean they SHOULD? If it's all the same to you I'll keep hoping for classiness like I see in other places.

 

Vegas last night was an abyss of douchey mung guzzlers

12/31/12 5:29 AM
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MartialArtsMixed
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sillyscreenname - I think the booing of JDS had less do with Vegas but with all the Mexicans coming to see Cain.
Mexicants Phone Post
12/31/12 5:48 PM
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WoodenPupa
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Thanks scarecrow, and you make good points about lack of education. It's hard to appraise something when you know little about it, and most MMA fans have rudimentary, or broad but surface level knowledge about what goes on in the cage.

Now, on this issue of booing in different sports, which other posters have brought up, on the notion that booing is universal in sports, I would say this. Isn't it largely an expression of team loyalty, and therefore an emotional response based on allegiance to one's team (by putting down the other)?

In other words, the boos in American football, basketball, etc are not expressions of entertainment failure (and therefore not ignorant appraisals of the action) but gestures of loyalty *toward* the favored team but *through* the disfavored?

This can get pretty rough in practice, and often goes beyond booing (the Oakland Raiders in American football had--maybe still have---notoriously psychopathic fans who would cross the line in various ways, by throwing things at the opposing team, etc). Fights are common in European football between fans as I understand it, but once again, this are emotions based on favor/disfavor rather than appraisals of the action.

In these other sports, the fans tend to know a great deal about what they are watching, and many will have played at some amateur level (little league baseball for example). So there is at least some appreciation for the expertise of the sportsmen they are paying to witness.

Boos in MMA it seems to me are often issued from the Hissing Roman Emperor script. But we have to be clear about the case in question, JDS. As mentioned above, and by various posters elsewhere, the boos might have come from pro-Mexicans. Whatever prompted them, it surely wasn't lack of entertainment, since the fight was amazing by all reasonable standards.

But even if caused by loyalty to Cain, the crowd ethics during the JDS interview seem to take their cue from the Roman Emperor POV. Because it seems to me that, when most games/matches in other sports are over, the boos are over too.

In tennis, for example, at the conclusion of say the Australian Open, when the winner and runner-up are interviewed (not just for TV, but the ones that the crowd can hear over the PA) the crowd does not boo. Similarly for the Superbowl. It seems that in these cases, the crowd knows when to drop the act.

I do think the act of booing *during a fight* is worth talking about though, and that there are sometimes reasons for it unrelated to entertainment (ref. stoppages against the figher's wishes, obvious cheating, bad decisions, and things like that).
12/31/12 5:48 PM
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WoodenPupa
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It would be nice if we could take a cue from the Japanese crowds at Pride events. I'm not suggesting we emulate their culture, but alter the Emperor Script a bit with some Budo Respect. The difference between these two "scripts" is that one is sympathetic to the fickle promoter, and the other to the fighters.
12/31/12 5:49 PM
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WoodenPupa
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I don't think, however, that we should NEVER boo the fighters. Shamrock-Severn II, I'm booing that sort of thing when I see it.
12/31/12 6:21 PM
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HenryO
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ChaosOverkill - 
FinestScotch - 

You can drink there 24/7 and on the streets.

Probably a contributing factor.


all the more reason to not go back


You sound like a whiny cunt

Stay in your basement
12/31/12 6:30 PM
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SuperMann
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I wish the North American fans were like the Japanese fans. I used to go to many live events but now only watch pay per view. There are to many Affliction bros and hoes in the crowd. Phone Post
12/31/12 6:34 PM
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Boofhead3
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I concur i was getting so annoyed watching the fights too many boos Phone Post

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