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UnderGround Forums >> Marcos Avellan's "Black Belt Psychology"


1/18/13 9:46 PM
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dhughes
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Tom Lawlor -  Do I support Lloyd Irvin? No. Do I support Marcos' statement supporting him? No. I can understand why he does, considering with Lloyd's help he has been able to provide a better life for his family.

The entire thing is a mess, and the lack of response from TLI makes me think that the allegations are true and it doesn't sit well with me. I wouldn't mind at all seeing a mass exodus from his association, which may/may not have been started with BETA leaving.

What I did was write a testimonial for someone who has helped me out, and from my personal experience with them is a genuine person. Whether he is being blinded by his loyalty to Lloyd in the face of damning evidence isn't really my place to say. I know only what I have read on the internet pertaining to the situation and wouldn't put a dollar in Lloyd's pocket with my own money at this point unless more evidence comes out supporting him.

I am sure you have friends who have friends that you don't associate with, so please don't throw me down the same alley as people who have been accused of rape simply for being truthful about a product that helped me. Phone Post

This makes perfect sense. My post above was written before reading this. Your first post was just kinda...scary given all that is at stake right now.
1/18/13 9:52 PM
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cheesesteak
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Tom Lawlor -  Do I support Lloyd Irvin? No. Do I support Marcos' statement supporting him? No. I can understand why he does, considering with Lloyd's help he has been able to provide a better life for his family.

The entire thing is a mess, and the lack of response from TLI makes me think that the allegations are true and it doesn't sit well with me. I wouldn't mind at all seeing a mass exodus from his association, which may/may not have been started with BETA leaving.

What I did was write a testimonial for someone who has helped me out, and from my personal experience with them is a genuine person. Whether he is being blinded by his loyalty to Lloyd in the face of damning evidence isn't really my place to say. I know only what I have read on the internet pertaining to the situation and wouldn't put a dollar in Lloyd's pocket with my own money at this point unless more evidence comes out supporting him.

I am sure you have friends who have friends that you don't associate with, so please don't throw me down the same alley as people who have been accused of rape simply for being truthful about a product that helped me. Phone Post

1/18/13 9:54 PM
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Tom Lawlor
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dhughes - Tom, I had a tennis coach in HS that improved my game while I was under his instruction. He absolutely made me better. I eventually got an opportunity to go to a major league camp and took it. A year later this coach was found to be connected to a teacher who had raped several of his male students. My former coach continued to defend his actions and openly attacked family members of the victims.

He made my game better and there's no doubt about that. Would I or could I endorse him to anyone? Never.

And believe me the world of junior tennis in Central Florida is serious business. :/
To my knowledge I haven't seen Marcos attack any victims family members, his problems were played out with someone's family who is perhaps only a victim of being too deeply embedded in the situation, not the raped themselves.

That othed TLI black belt who said the girl got guilty after wanting it? Thats a different story.

If I found out Marcos attempted to rape a girl I would politely ask for my testimonial to be taken down, many people continue to try to make this a black and white situation in some aspects and it isn't always that way in life.

If someone asked you whether that same coached helped you become better, you would say yes. That is simply what I have done. Phone Post
1/18/13 9:54 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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lol Tom is a good man Phone Post
1/18/13 9:55 PM
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cheesesteak
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Tom, your good people and I am very glad to hear what you just said. Very well spoken and I see your point.
1/18/13 9:58 PM
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Elevate
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People are going on the witch hunt way too much. What's next, everyone who's trained under Lloyd or either Avellan brother should disregard their BJJ ranks and start again as white belts?

All signs point to them being despicable people but the signs are new. You can't fault people for being connected to TLI before TLI was despicable.
1/18/13 10:02 PM
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dhughes
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Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes - Tom, I had a tennis coach in HS that improved my game while I was under his instruction. He absolutely made me better. I eventually got an opportunity to go to a major league camp and took it. A year later this coach was found to be connected to a teacher who had raped several of his male students. My former coach continued to defend his actions and openly attacked family members of the victims.

He made my game better and there's no doubt about that. Would I or could I endorse him to anyone? Never.

And believe me the world of junior tennis in Central Florida is serious business. :/
To my knowledge I haven't seen Marcos attack any victims family members, his problems were played out with someone's family who is perhaps only a victim of being too deeply embedded in the situation, not the raped themselves.

That othed TLI black belt who said the girl got guilty after wanting it? Thats a different story.

If I found out Marcos attempted to rape a girl I would politely ask for my testimonial to be taken down, many people continue to try to make this a black and white situation in some aspects and it isn't always that way in life.

If someone asked you whether that same coached helped you become better, you would say yes. That is simply what I have done. Phone Post

Maybe you haven't seen his comments to Keenan's sister or his defense of LI here on the UG. It was deleted upon his request. I don't doubt your sincerity or your character. We share a mutual friend, for what it is worth, from your Central Florida days, and you are one of my favorites. There are plenty of posts in my history to testify to that. I was just taken by surprise by your first post.
1/18/13 10:05 PM
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dhughes
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Elevate - People are going on the witch hunt way too much. What's next, everyone who's trained under Lloyd or either Avellan brother should disregard their BJJ ranks and start again as white belts?

All signs point to them being despicable people but the signs are new. You can't fault people for being connected to TLI before TLI was despicable.

No, you can not fault people for being connected to TLI but you can ask them to end their affiliation. Is that not a reasonable thing to ask?
1/18/13 10:07 PM
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Sherdoggystyle
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People may hate any LI affiliated people and their products, but I think the Kimura Trap system seems like a good product. $197 is pricey for me personally, but I do enjoy the videos. Seems like an interesting system to use for grappling.

Correct me if I'm wrong?
1/18/13 10:22 PM
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Tom Lawlor
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dhughes -
Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes - Tom, I had a tennis coach in HS that improved my game while I was under his instruction. He absolutely made me better. I eventually got an opportunity to go to a major league camp and took it. A year later this coach was found to be connected to a teacher who had raped several of his male students. My former coach continued to defend his actions and openly attacked family members of the victims.

He made my game better and there's no doubt about that. Would I or could I endorse him to anyone? Never.

And believe me the world of junior tennis in Central Florida is serious business. :/
To my knowledge I haven't seen Marcos attack any victims family members, his problems were played out with someone's family who is perhaps only a victim of being too deeply embedded in the situation, not the raped themselves.

That othed TLI black belt who said the girl got guilty after wanting it? Thats a different story.

If I found out Marcos attempted to rape a girl I would politely ask for my testimonial to be taken down, many people continue to try to make this a black and white situation in some aspects and it isn't always that way in life.

If someone asked you whether that same coached helped you become better, you would say yes. That is simply what I have done. Phone Post

Maybe you haven't seen his comments to Keenan's sister or his defense of LI here on the UG. It was deleted upon his request. I don't doubt your sincerity or your character. We share a mutual friend, for what it is worth, from your Central Florida days, and you are one of my favorites. There are plenty of posts in my history to testify to that. I was just taken by surprise by your first post.
Yes I know who you are, pretty sure the mutual friend is very close to me:)

I saw the original LI defense thread that was posted, but it is hard to remember everything posted from days ago. It was a situation that was handled publically on all fronts that perhaps should have stayed in private to all parties. I don't really feel like continuing to post about this situation because it doesn't really involve me a whole lot, and I feel as if it will go around in circles very quickly. I think I have at least tried to properly make the poiny I was looking to as far as why I endorsed the BBP product, if people disagree with me I am fine with that and respect their opinion. Phone Post
1/18/13 10:37 PM
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LShaman
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Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes -
Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes - Tom, I had a tennis coach in HS that improved my game while I was under his instruction. He absolutely made me better. I eventually got an opportunity to go to a major league camp and took it. A year later this coach was found to be connected to a teacher who had raped several of his male students. My former coach continued to defend his actions and openly attacked family members of the victims.

He made my game better and there's no doubt about that. Would I or could I endorse him to anyone? Never.

And believe me the world of junior tennis in Central Florida is serious business. :/
To my knowledge I haven't seen Marcos attack any victims family members, his problems were played out with someone's family who is perhaps only a victim of being too deeply embedded in the situation, not the raped themselves.

That othed TLI black belt who said the girl got guilty after wanting it? Thats a different story.

If I found out Marcos attempted to rape a girl I would politely ask for my testimonial to be taken down, many people continue to try to make this a black and white situation in some aspects and it isn't always that way in life.

If someone asked you whether that same coached helped you become better, you would say yes. That is simply what I have done. Phone Post

Maybe you haven't seen his comments to Keenan's sister or his defense of LI here on the UG. It was deleted upon his request. I don't doubt your sincerity or your character. We share a mutual friend, for what it is worth, from your Central Florida days, and you are one of my favorites. There are plenty of posts in my history to testify to that. I was just taken by surprise by your first post.
Yes I know who you are, pretty sure the mutual friend is very close to me:)

I saw the original LI defense thread that was posted, but it is hard to remember everything posted from days ago. It was a situation that was handled publically on all fronts that perhaps should have stayed in private to all parties. I don't really feel like continuing to post about this situation because it doesn't really involve me a whole lot, and I feel as if it will go around in circles very quickly. I think I have at least tried to properly make the poiny I was looking to as far as why I endorsed the BBP product, if people disagree with me I am fine with that and respect their opinion. Phone Post

You don't have to explain shit bro. You endorsed a tool that made you better, not the creators family tree. Anybody trying to make you explain further are: A. Trolling B. Just want to talk to you or C. Retarded
1/18/13 10:52 PM
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nogidavid
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hi tom!

1/18/13 10:59 PM
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rundymc
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Edited: 01/18/13 11:03 PM
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You cunts have to be shitting me.<br /><br />Listen, I'm as much against rape as the next person, but let's not turn this into a fucking witch hunt. Jesus. McCarthy much?<br /><br />Just because Tom is supporting a PRODUCT, doesn't mean he's part of some cult, or is sticking up for Avellan in any way. Come on guys.<br /><br />1)Subject X rapes someone.<br />2)Subject Y supports X<br />3)Subject Z supports Y's product<br /><br />Oh God! Subject Z supports rape!

Edit:
Seems like Tom doesn't need a dumbass like me to mouth off for him. Nice to know. War Lawlor!
1/18/13 11:05 PM
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halfninja
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Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes -
Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes - Tom, I had a tennis coach in HS that improved my game while I was under his instruction. He absolutely made me better. I eventually got an opportunity to go to a major league camp and took it. A year later this coach was found to be connected to a teacher who had raped several of his male students. My former coach continued to defend his actions and openly attacked family members of the victims.

He made my game better and there's no doubt about that. Would I or could I endorse him to anyone? Never.

And believe me the world of junior tennis in Central Florida is serious business. :/
To my knowledge I haven't seen Marcos attack any victims family members, his problems were played out with someone's family who is perhaps only a victim of being too deeply embedded in the situation, not the raped themselves.

That othed TLI black belt who said the girl got guilty after wanting it? Thats a different story.

If I found out Marcos attempted to rape a girl I would politely ask for my testimonial to be taken down, many people continue to try to make this a black and white situation in some aspects and it isn't always that way in life.

If someone asked you whether that same coached helped you become better, you would say yes. That is simply what I have done. Phone Post

Maybe you haven't seen his comments to Keenan's sister or his defense of LI here on the UG. It was deleted upon his request. I don't doubt your sincerity or your character. We share a mutual friend, for what it is worth, from your Central Florida days, and you are one of my favorites. There are plenty of posts in my history to testify to that. I was just taken by surprise by your first post.
Yes I know who you are, pretty sure the mutual friend is very close to me:)

I saw the original LI defense thread that was posted, but it is hard to remember everything posted from days ago. It was a situation that was handled publically on all fronts that perhaps should have stayed in private to all parties. I don't really feel like continuing to post about this situation because it doesn't really involve me a whole lot, and I feel as if it will go around in circles very quickly. I think I have at least tried to properly make the poiny I was looking to as far as why I endorsed the BBP product, if people disagree with me I am fine with that and respect their opinion. Phone Post

Eskimo brothers?
1/18/13 11:16 PM
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TalkShowOnMute
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Despite the fact that this "system" and it's entire marketing approach is Lloyd 101....it is technically Marcos' program..and an endorsement of the program is not an endorsement of everything Marcos does (Lord knows he's acted like a toolbag lately)...or through proxy...what Lloyd or his team does.


No reason to drag Lawlor's name around. If it helped him, it helped.


In the end..we know who the scumbags are in this storyline.
1/18/13 11:34 PM
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cheesesteak
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hammerhurler - Filthy, have you ever gone to a professional sports psychologist? I know it's not my place to be giving advice to a pro fighter, but I think you might see a significant difference between what Marcos is selling and what a professional could do for you. Just a thought.

I agree, for instance GSP has a sports psychologist...Do you thing he'd by the "Master Avellos system"...I think not....BTW, I too am in no position to speak of this...Now sure I suppose it would be a nice little program for a newer student wanting to improve his game and win some tournies (although it seems to be $150 overpriced)... But think it would be far more effective for the pros to hire pros..IMHO
1/19/13 12:05 AM
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John Clarke
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I believe Tom if he says the product helped him and I'm happy for him.

However, there are probably hundreds of similar books written by actual accredited psychiatric professionals that could have also helped.

I remember the Avellans from the grappling scene in the late 90s and I remember them being decent guys. In the last year or so I've seen Marcos' attitude on this very internet change. He has come off as pushy, arrogant and very used car salesman like. I, for one, am a little insulted that he thinks we should by a cut and paste psychology system from a dude with no scholarly background on this topic when I could go to the bookstore and get the real mccoy.

I saw the original FB posts made by Marcos before they were being deleted. It was pretty nasty. I don't even like my sister and I would be pissed if he took that tone with her.

I agreed with Tom to an extent-maybe Marcos was just buddies with a bad dude. Then I read Callos' account of his email exchanges with Marcos and I lost all respect for him. Bullying a guy over email because of differing opinions is tasteless. And no, I haven't seen said emails but given all that's gone on over the last few days I'm inclined to believe Callos.

Macros should've kept his kimura trap shut but he didn't and his nasty tone and arrogant, used car salesman attitude have turned many people away from him. Phone Post
1/19/13 12:19 AM
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spartancs
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John Clarke -  I believe Tom if he says the product helped him and I'm happy for him.

However, there are probably hundreds of similar books written by actual accredited psychiatric professionals that could have also helped.

I remember the Avellans from the grappling scene in the late 90s and I remember them being decent guys. In the last year or so I've seen Marcos' attitude on this very internet change. He has come off as pushy, arrogant and very used car salesman like. I, for one, am a little insulted that he thinks we should by a cut and paste psychology system from a dude with no scholarly background on this topic when I could go to the bookstore and get the real mccoy.

I saw the original FB posts made by Marcos before they were being deleted. It was pretty nasty. I don't even like my sister and I would be pissed if he took that tone with her.

I agreed with Tom to an extent-maybe Marcos was just buddies with a bad dude. Then I read Callos' account of his email exchanges with Marcos and I lost all respect for him. Bullying a guy over email because of differing opinions is tasteless. And no, I haven't seen said emails but given all that's gone on over the last few days I'm inclined to believe Callos.

Macros should've kept his kimura trap shut but he didn't and his nasty tone and arrogant, used car salesman attitude have turned many people away from him. Phone Post

VTFU.

A guy who thinks a f'n pool in your back yard given to you by a participant in a gangbang of 5'2" 98lb 17yr old girl is something of value tells you all you need to know about him.  He may have some redeaming qualities but unfortunately his character flaws overwhelm them.

1/19/13 12:20 AM
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Winston Wolf
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Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes -
Tom Lawlor - 
dhughes - Tom, I had a tennis coach in HS that improved my game while I was under his instruction. He absolutely made me better. I eventually got an opportunity to go to a major league camp and took it. A year later this coach was found to be connected to a teacher who had raped several of his male students. My former coach continued to defend his actions and openly attacked family members of the victims.

He made my game better and there's no doubt about that. Would I or could I endorse him to anyone? Never.

And believe me the world of junior tennis in Central Florida is serious business. :/
To my knowledge I haven't seen Marcos attack any victims family members, his problems were played out with someone's family who is perhaps only a victim of being too deeply embedded in the situation, not the raped themselves.

That othed TLI black belt who said the girl got guilty after wanting it? Thats a different story.

If I found out Marcos attempted to rape a girl I would politely ask for my testimonial to be taken down, many people continue to try to make this a black and white situation in some aspects and it isn't always that way in life.

If someone asked you whether that same coached helped you become better, you would say yes. That is simply what I have done. Phone Post

Maybe you haven't seen his comments to Keenan's sister or his defense of LI here on the UG. It was deleted upon his request. I don't doubt your sincerity or your character. We share a mutual friend, for what it is worth, from your Central Florida days, and you are one of my favorites. There are plenty of posts in my history to testify to that. I was just taken by surprise by your first post.
Yes I know who you are, pretty sure the mutual friend is very close to me:)

I saw the original LI defense thread that was posted, but it is hard to remember everything posted from days ago. It was a situation that was handled publically on all fronts that perhaps should have stayed in private to all parties. I don't really feel like continuing to post about this situation because it doesn't really involve me a whole lot, and I feel as if it will go around in circles very quickly. I think I have at least tried to properly make the poiny I was looking to as far as why I endorsed the BBP product, if people disagree with me I am fine with that and respect their opinion. Phone Post

it involves u and anyone involved in martial arts.Im a fan but disagree
1/19/13 12:22 AM
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Winston Wolf
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John Clarke -  I believe Tom if he says the product helped him and I'm happy for him.

However, there are probably hundreds of similar books written by actual accredited psychiatric professionals that could have also helped.

I remember the Avellans from the grappling scene in the late 90s and I remember them being decent guys. In the last year or so I've seen Marcos' attitude on this very internet change. He has come off as pushy, arrogant and very used car salesman like. I, for one, am a little insulted that he thinks we should by a cut and paste psychology system from a dude with no scholarly background on this topic when I could go to the bookstore and get the real mccoy.

I saw the original FB posts made by Marcos before they were being deleted. It was pretty nasty. I don't even like my sister and I would be pissed if he took that tone with her.

I agreed with Tom to an extent-maybe Marcos was just buddies with a bad dude. Then I read Callos' account of his email exchanges with Marcos and I lost all respect for him. Bullying a guy over email because of differing opinions is tasteless. And no, I haven't seen said emails but given all that's gone on over the last few days I'm inclined to believe Callos.

Macros should've kept his kimura trap shut but he didn't and his nasty tone and arrogant, used car salesman attitude have turned many people away from him. Phone Post

voted up
1/19/13 12:29 AM
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gusto
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why is his blue shirt about 4 inches too long in the sleeves, how does that fit the con?
1/19/13 12:31 AM
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MickColins
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Some of y'all have to learn that guilt by association doesn't fly anymore. 

1/19/13 12:33 AM
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Winston Wolf
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MickColins - 

Some of y'all have to learn that guilt by association doesn't fly anymore. 


disagree
1/19/13 1:38 AM
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Richard Tuck
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MickColins - 

Some of y'all have to learn that guilt by association doesn't fly anymore. 


This, I see no reason to drag Tom into this bullshit
1/19/13 2:16 AM
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shen
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Lot of haters on here. Personally, I'm fascinated by the topic of Black Belt psychology...

Out of curiosity, on the DVDs, does he get into the psychology behind instructors who refer to themselves as "Master"?

What's his take on that? Is it usually low self-esteem? or is it usually more of a control issue?

Always wondered about that.

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