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UnderGround Forums >> Cant Stomach Lentz/Nunes, why watch MMA?


1/21/13 7:38 PM
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Wasa-B
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One of the most exciting series of grappling was when Karo, Nick and Diego were top guys in the WW div. All of their fights with each other had crazy grappling exchanges and scrambles. But anyone that understands grappling knows that you dont get those all the time. Crazy scrambling is a part of grappling and is a its the equivalent of trading in boxing or striking. Its fun to watch but naive to expect it all the time. And if that's all you can appreciate, its not that controversial to say you're not really a true fan of boxing if all you like is brawling and trading. That's not boxing, that's a part of it.
1/21/13 7:43 PM
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Wasa-B
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"You're defending the most boring aspect of MMA by comparing it to the most boring parts of other sports."

Running the ball is a fundamental part of football. Even the most retarded rednecked NFL fans understand this. There is nothing to defend about it, its part of the sport.

Equating that to "They have boring parts so we should too!" is unsuprisingly missing the entire point. You dont have to defend fundamentals of the game. You dont have to like it but you have to expect and accept it. And if you cant, why watch a sport in which you cannot accept the fundamentals of? Why watch boxing if you cannot accept the boxing aspect of it and only want to see trading and brawling? There's always toughman, they dont box, they brawl.
1/21/13 7:46 PM
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Wasa-B
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Glovegate - 

People are paying for it, they're allowed to complain.

Don't like it?  Don't read their posts.


Sure they can complain. They can also be called out on being stupid.

I'm only try to help them. If they cant stomatch a fundamental part of something they pay $ for, why not save the $ and spend it elsewhere.
1/21/13 7:46 PM
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MdGeist
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Lentz/Nunes was not an exciting fight by any stretch of the imagination. OP wants to make it seem like if you can't watch a boring grind fest like Nunes/Lentz, than you don't appreaciate grappling, which is totally ignorant.

I can appreciate an exciting grappling exchange where both fighters are taking risks, looking for subs., reversals, transitions to dominant positions, engaging in scrambels to get top position, etc.... Lentz/Nunes delivered none of that.

Blame should be placed on both fighters, mainly on Lentz for initiating the grind fest, but Nunes was playing it safe just as much as Lentz was: keeping his guard closed most of the fight and not releasing it to sacrifice half guard to try to get a sweep or throwing up his legs to at least threaten with a sub. to get a reaction out of Lentz.

Now Lentz really made that fight boring as shit. He really made no attempt to pass to side-control or mount, or to launch any kind of siginificant offense on the ground, but he did just enough to prevent the ref. from standing them up. What was EXTREMELY aggrivating was when every time Nunes would try to wall-walk to his feet, Lentz would hook his leg and just hang on so he slowly drag him back down with his weight. 

Nothing dynamic about that grappling exchange, just a good old fashioned wrestle fuck.

 
1/21/13 7:47 PM
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Wasa-B
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Btw, Lentz/Nunes wasnt PPV either.
1/21/13 7:51 PM
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Wasa-B
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MdGeist - 

Lentz/Nunes was not an exciting fight by any stretch of the imagination. OP wants to make it seem like if you can't watch a boring grind fest like Nunes/Lentz, than you don't appreaciate grappling, which is totally ignorant.

I can appreciate an exciting grappling exchange where both fighters are taking risks, looking for subs., reversals, transitions to dominant positions, engaging in scrambels to get top position, etc.... Lentz/Nunes delivered none of that.

Blame should be placed on both fighters, mainly on Lentz for initiating the grind fest, but Nunes was playing it safe just as much as Lentz was: keeping his guard closed most of the fight and not releasing it to sacrifice half guard to try to get a sweep or throwing up his legs to at least threaten with a sub. to get a reaction out of Lentz.

Now Lentz really made that fight boring as shit. He really made no attempt to pass to side-control or mount, or to launch any kind of siginificant offense on the ground, but he did just enough to prevent the ref. from standing them up. What was EXTREMELY aggrivating was when every time Nunes would try to wall-walk to his feet, Lentz would hook his leg and just hang on so he slowly drag him back down with his weight. 

Nothing dynamic about that grappling exchange, just a good old fashioned wrestle fuck.

 

" He really made no attempt to pass to side-control or mount,"

- Flat out incorrect.

"What was EXTREMELY aggrivating was when every time Nunes would try to wall-walk to his feet, Lentz would hook his leg and just hang on so he slowly drag him back down with his weight."

- This is exactly my point. You expected the grappler to let the striker up, huh? You found that a grappler was trying to counter bottom guy's attempt to stand back up EXTREMELY aggrivating? There are sports that do not allow the fight to go to the ground to begin with you know....so you dont have to be extremely aggrivated.
1/21/13 7:55 PM
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Wasa-B
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FinestScotch - 
Wasa-B - "You're defending the most boring aspect of MMA by comparing it to the most boring parts of other sports."

Running the ball is a fundamental part of football. Even the most retarded rednecked NFL fans understand this. There is nothing to defend about it, its part of the sport.

Equating that to "They have boring parts so we should too!" is unsuprisingly missing the entire point. You dont have to defend fundamentals of the game. You dont have to like it but you have to expect and accept it. And if you cant, why watch a sport in which you cannot accept the fundamentals of? Why watch boxing if you cannot accept the boxing aspect of it and only want to see trading and brawling? There's always toughman, they dont box, they brawl.

12 minutes ground control

8 passes

1 RNC so bad fightmetric didn't score it

Terrible GnP

 

Rules need to be in place to make that more difficult to achieve.


I think you're meaning to say rules need to be put in place to avoid fights like that and make them more spectacular right? How about givng the fighters 20 seconds on the ground and you get stood up then? How about no tds at all?
1/21/13 7:57 PM
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Wasa-B
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Glovegate - 
Wasa-B - 
Glovegate - 

People are paying for it, they're allowed to complain.

Don't like it?  Don't read their posts.


Sure they can complain. They can also be called out on being stupid.

I'm only try to help them. If they cant stomatch a fundamental part of something they pay $ for, why not save the $ and spend it elsewhere.

Because complaining to people you're paying for a product often elicits action from said people.

Complaining that people are complaining about the things you don't complain about on a net forum, does nothing.

Who's stupid now?


You're the stupid, stupid head.

Yeah, im into hip hop music and pay for it, but what's up with all the rhyming and beats?
1/21/13 7:59 PM
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Wasa-B
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When I pay to watch a fight, I expect, no I demand that if bottom guy is trying to wall-walk to his feet, that top guy just lets him up. I paid for my goddam PPV, this is how it should go.
1/21/13 8:02 PM
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MostUGersAreGhey
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quick - You can appreciate what he is doing and still find it boring. Personally I'm more a fan of guys who let it all hang out win, lose, or draw.

Voted Up!
1/21/13 8:04 PM
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caposa
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I appreciate dominating grappling performances but I can't pretend I was on the edge of my seat while watching that one. Boring fights are boring fights. I think everyone here prefers an impressive KO or submission over a Lentz/Nunes type win, but under the scoring criteria it is a legitimate way to win. You can always change the channel.

1/21/13 8:37 PM
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Pro Ice
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TTT

1/21/13 8:37 PM
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MdGeist
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Wasa-B - 
MdGeist - 

Lentz/Nunes was not an exciting fight by any stretch of the imagination. OP wants to make it seem like if you can't watch a boring grind fest like Nunes/Lentz, than you don't appreaciate grappling, which is totally ignorant.

I can appreciate an exciting grappling exchange where both fighters are taking risks, looking for subs., reversals, transitions to dominant positions, engaging in scrambels to get top position, etc.... Lentz/Nunes delivered none of that.

Blame should be placed on both fighters, mainly on Lentz for initiating the grind fest, but Nunes was playing it safe just as much as Lentz was: keeping his guard closed most of the fight and not releasing it to sacrifice half guard to try to get a sweep or throwing up his legs to at least threaten with a sub. to get a reaction out of Lentz.

Now Lentz really made that fight boring as shit. He really made no attempt to pass to side-control or mount, or to launch any kind of siginificant offense on the ground, but he did just enough to prevent the ref. from standing them up. What was EXTREMELY aggrivating was when every time Nunes would try to wall-walk to his feet, Lentz would hook his leg and just hang on so he slowly drag him back down with his weight. 

Nothing dynamic about that grappling exchange, just a good old fashioned wrestle fuck.

 

" He really made no attempt to pass to side-control or mount,"

- Flat out incorrect.

"What was EXTREMELY aggrivating was when every time Nunes would try to wall-walk to his feet, Lentz would hook his leg and just hang on so he slowly drag him back down with his weight."

- This is exactly my point. You expected the grappler to let the striker up, huh? You found that a grappler was trying to counter bottom guy's attempt to stand back up EXTREMELY aggrivating? There are sports that do not allow the fight to go to the ground to begin with you know....so you dont have to be extremely aggrivated.

I didn't expect Lentz to do anything on the feet than what he does best but I expected Nunes to be more crafty in breaking out of those takedown attempts on the fence which he failed at which was aggravating. He would have been better off scooting himself away from the cage tightening his guard, tieing up the arms, and forcing a stand-up.

And yes, Lentz made very little attempts to pass to side control or full mount except once when he took the back briefly but Nunes escaped. He was perfectly content to pin Nunes's side against the cage in guard/hal-guard and dropping weak GNP and not jeapardize any control.

Lentz took absolutely no risk in that fight to pass to more dominant positions or to launch any significant offense on the ground and that is why that fight sucked.

1/21/13 8:49 PM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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"You dont expect football teams to go for the td every single play, you accept the run the ball and pass for small gains."

Of course not, a football teams job is to win period. However NFL does and has changed rules to make it more exciting.

No sport has simply said "learn to appreciate it or stop watching". Olympic wrestling has gone through a billion rule changes the past decade to make it more exciting, judo has aswell, olympic boxing keeps changing scoring and rules

1/21/13 8:57 PM
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Wasa-B
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Gokudamus stole my name - "You dont expect football teams to go for the td every single play, you accept the run the ball and pass for small gains."

Of course not, a football teams job is to win period. However NFL does and has changed rules to make it more exciting.

No sport has simply said "learn to appreciate it or stop watching". Olympic wrestling has gone through a billion rule changes the past decade to make it more exciting, judo has aswell, olympic boxing keeps changing scoring and rules


That's cause no other sport has the expectations of it or the lack of understanding that this one does.

As for rule changes, what more can they do with the already 5 min rounds with sometimes standups from sidemount?
1/21/13 8:59 PM
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Wasa-B
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Judo has also been heavily, heavily criticized for their rule changes as well. Same with wrestling. There is nothing more stupid than that pick a ball thing. WTF?
1/21/13 9:02 PM
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Wasa-B
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FinestScotch - 
Wasa-B - 
FinestScotch - 
Wasa-B - "You're defending the most boring aspect of MMA by comparing it to the most boring parts of other sports."

Running the ball is a fundamental part of football. Even the most retarded rednecked NFL fans understand this. There is nothing to defend about it, its part of the sport.

Equating that to "They have boring parts so we should too!" is unsuprisingly missing the entire point. You dont have to defend fundamentals of the game. You dont have to like it but you have to expect and accept it. And if you cant, why watch a sport in which you cannot accept the fundamentals of? Why watch boxing if you cannot accept the boxing aspect of it and only want to see trading and brawling? There's always toughman, they dont box, they brawl.

12 minutes ground control

8 passes

1 RNC so bad fightmetric didn't score it

Terrible GnP

 

Rules need to be in place to make that more difficult to achieve.


I think you're meaning to say rules need to be put in place to avoid fights like that and make them more spectacular right? How about givng the fighters 20 seconds on the ground and you get stood up then? How about no tds at all?

How about no over 4 minutes ground control in round 2 with no standup from the ref?

Definitely not 20 seconds, but definitely not 4 minutes, either.


I dont really follow, sorry. They should put a time limit of the time you can spend on the ground even if you get td after td? I understand standups are a necessary evil but you also realize that having standups and even rounds at all do "water" down pure MMA/NHB? Im not advocating no rounds or standups but i think its gone plenty far enough with 5 min rounds with standups and depending on the ref, they can be ridiculously quick. Okami got stood up from sidecontrol.
1/21/13 9:04 PM
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12SixElbow
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Everyone likes different things.

 

1/21/13 9:06 PM
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Wasa-B
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Glovegate - 

Hip hop wouldn't be music without rhyming and beats, it would be poetry I guess.

 

They're paying, they're allowed to complain.  Paying customers complaints are usually met with action.

You're angry that people don't like the things you like.  Nobody cares.  Your complaints are falling on deaf ears and you're gaining nothing but vote downs.

Welcome to the internet, now get the fuck out.


Nobody paid for Lentz/Nunes, it wasnt PPV.

So what kind of action do you suggest? No tds?

Is it about wanting people to like what I like? This isnt art. This is a sport that should be allowed to be what it is. Nobody cares...but you and the rest of this people on this thread entering the discussion. Vote downs, im gonna go cry and get the fuck out now.

MMA wouldnt be MMA without wrestling and grappling. Thats my point homie. Welcome to MMA.
1/21/13 9:09 PM
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Wasa-B
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12SixElbow - 

Everyone likes different things.

 


I didnt particularly like this fight so much. I like Lauzon. I like Aoki, I like Werdum. I like Anderson, Fedor, Hendo, etc.

I just dont expect every fighter to be able to be as good or exciting as them or every fight on a card to be fight of the night.

Im not saying Lentz is my fav fighter or even exciting. But its just naive to not expect fights like this in this sport.
1/21/13 9:13 PM
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Caleb R
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Fans don't realize how good they have it these days. Phone Post
1/21/13 9:13 PM
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Wasa-B
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caposa - 

I appreciate dominating grappling performances but I can't pretend I was on the edge of my seat while watching that one. Boring fights are boring fights. I think everyone here prefers an impressive KO or submission over a Lentz/Nunes type win, but under the scoring criteria it is a legitimate way to win. You can always change the channel.


Exactly. Change the channel, dont watch it, whatver, you will never remove grappling from MMA or it wont be MMA. In BJJ, not every match ends with a submission. There isnt a close RNC attempt anytime anyone takes someone's back. These kinds of boring fights will happen, its part of MMA.
1/21/13 9:15 PM
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Wasa-B
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Caleb R -  Fans don't realize how good they have it these days. Phone Post

2 straight weeks of free cards on TV. This coming sat, we get to watch MM/Dodson, a FLWW title fight, Rampage vs Teixeira, fucking Cerrone vs Pettis, Lamas vs Koch and then Hioki/Guida,etc on the prelims.

Now you KNOW these guys will be dying if Cowboy and Pettis arent trading like the end of the world by the 3 min mark.
1/21/13 9:22 PM
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HandyDarsh
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if someone says a fitch or lentz fight wasnt the most exciting thing they've seen, there's always gunna be somone claiming youre not a real fan....

quite defensive fans I must say. Strikers are a part of mediocre fights as well...it doesnt make you a fake fan to admit it.

just my 2 cents

1/21/13 9:23 PM
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Bloodstorm
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I like bjj and grappling. I just hate when guys take the FIGHT out of the sport and make it a match. Its not a wrestling match. Its a fight. By all means use (insert grappling style) to help you finish the fight. Not to gain dominant position and just hang out there for the round to win on points.

The same goes for striking. I hate guys who just look to out point the other guy with more strikes and move around not really looking for a finish either. This is why most high level boxing now a days gets boring as well.

I find it funny that the karate guy Machida. Whos striking sport style is based on points. Looks for the finish more then most other guys

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