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UnderGround Forums >> DFW: Tito, Rousey blows you out of the water


2/2/13 9:21 AM
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SKARHEAD
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Complete bullshit on Dana's part.


Tito fought killers.Helped BULd and CARRY the sport...Rhonda has fought absolute prissy CANS.




Don't worry...in a couple of years when Dana and Rhonda are bickering over money $$$....Dana will be talking ALL KINDS of shit about Rhonda, saying she was GIVEN her title, was never THAT good, and that the new breed of female (TUF) fighters are the REAL deal, etc.
2/2/13 9:22 AM
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SKARHEAD
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Edited: 02/02/13 9:22 AM
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dp.
2/2/13 9:23 AM
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SKARHEAD
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Archer0545 - 
Enemies - Okay, so I just looked some stuff up. Rousey is 26.

When Tito was 26 he had already fought and beat Wanderlei Silva for the Light Heavyweight belt. Then defended it 4 times consecutively before the age of 27 including another time vs. Ken Shamrock after he turned 27.

So, I like Dana but he's talking out of his ass on this one.
Rousey medaled in the o olympics which probably eclipses tito beating wandy before wandy became a killer. Phone Post

No. Not in combat sports...and CERTAINLY not in MMA.
2/2/13 9:33 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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Another Foob - 
KboyFresh - Dana's logic is mindless, sport grappling and MMA are two completely different things. Using one to justify a position in another doesn't make much sense to me.

Look at Tito's first nine fights and then compare them to Ronda's. I'm almost insulted that Dana would compare Tito's 40 minutes to Ronda's 10. Tito faced killers, Ronda not really.


Yeah, killers like Guy Metzger. Well, Tito lost that one, but...

I love how misogynistic foobs think 90s mma was more competitive than olympic judo. Being the first American to medal in a sport that has been practiced all over the world for over a hundred years is a slightly bigger deal than winning most of your matches in a sport that has 20 people competing in it. *eye roll*

Guy Mezger was a great fighter.

2/2/13 9:39 AM
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HexRei
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Funaki Masakatsu #1 - 
Another Foob - 
KboyFresh - Dana's logic is mindless, sport grappling and MMA are two completely different things. Using one to justify a position in another doesn't make much sense to me.

Look at Tito's first nine fights and then compare them to Ronda's. I'm almost insulted that Dana would compare Tito's 40 minutes to Ronda's 10. Tito faced killers, Ronda not really.


Yeah, killers like Guy Metzger. Well, Tito lost that one, but...

I love how misogynistic foobs think 90s mma was more competitive than olympic judo. Being the first American to medal in a sport that has been practiced all over the world for over a hundred years is a slightly bigger deal than winning most of your matches in a sport that has 20 people competing in it. *eye roll*

Guy Mezger was a great fighter.


he was competitive for his period but the sport was not well developed then and showmanship was a much bigger deal, especially for fighters coming from pancrase. the same Guy today would get smoked even among lower-tier UFC fighters at his weight. but yeah tito beating him in the rematch was a big deal at the time.
2/2/13 9:45 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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BLAF should really be a lawyer. He'd be great at it. He's the king of taking a position and twisting things to win over an unsophisticated audience. He'd slaughter juries.

What Tito Ortiz did to Jerry Bohlander in only his fourth fight was amazing. Jerry Bohlander was a GREAT fighter, he was a tournament champion, he was tough as nails, good wrestler, good athlete, good submissions, incredibly hard to finish, underrated striking, and Tito ragdolled him the entire fight and got a doctor stoppage before time expired. It was amazing considering how good Bohlander was. Jerry's guard was sweet, too, and Tito wasn't in any real danger at any point during the fight.

Then, after beating Bohlander, Tito goes out in his fifth fight and handily beats the great Guy Mezger, who two years later tooled Chuck Liddell in PRIDE in the opening round of their fight. Even prior to this, in his first fight with Mezger, Tito was winning some of the striking exchanges with Guy, which was amazing considering the level of Mezger's kickboxing in comparison with Tito's, before shooting a bad double and getting caught in a guillotine. This was Tito's second fight ever. This was another incredible performance given the circumstances and quality of opponent.

And that doesn't even mention giving Frank Shamrock a great fight, who was KING in 1999, and then beating Wanderlei Silva. All in his first 8 fights.

I fluctuate on BLAF; sometimes I like him, sometimes I really dislike him. This is one of those times I really dislike him. Stop shitting all over the fighters who helped build this sport into what it is today. There are ways to argue Ronda's greatness without dispariging Tito Ortiz.

2/2/13 9:53 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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HexRei - 
Funaki Masakatsu #1 - 
Another Foob - 
KboyFresh - Dana's logic is mindless, sport grappling and MMA are two completely different things. Using one to justify a position in another doesn't make much sense to me.

Look at Tito's first nine fights and then compare them to Ronda's. I'm almost insulted that Dana would compare Tito's 40 minutes to Ronda's 10. Tito faced killers, Ronda not really.


Yeah, killers like Guy Metzger. Well, Tito lost that one, but...

I love how misogynistic foobs think 90s mma was more competitive than olympic judo. Being the first American to medal in a sport that has been practiced all over the world for over a hundred years is a slightly bigger deal than winning most of your matches in a sport that has 20 people competing in it. *eye roll*

Guy Mezger was a great fighter.


he was competitive for his period but the sport was not well developed then and showmanship was a much bigger deal, especially for fighters coming from pancrase. the same Guy today would get smoked even among lower-tier UFC fighters at his weight. but yeah tito beating him in the rematch was a big deal at the time.

Guy Mezger was EXTREMELY well developed, even by today's standards. He was an excellent kickboxer, an underrated MMA wrestler who understood submission, and trained in CACC style with the Lion's Den, which has roots back to Gotch and Fujiwara's style of catch wrestling. He had good cardio as he trained at the Lion's Den and he was tough as nails, as all those guys from that camp were.

I strongly disagree that he'd get "smoked" by lower tier UFC LHWs. This is the same Guy Mezger that decisively won the opening round against Chuck Liddell in their fight in PRIDE and knocked Chuck on his butt. He also was outpointing Wanderlei Silva in their fight for the better part of the first round before getting caught (and after Wanderlei threw an illegal headbutt, too).

This idea that the sport has evolved so much that the top guys from 1999-2001 can't compete now is so overstated. Yes, the sport has evolved, but a lot of this is seen in the depths of the divisions. The quality of fighter at the low end of MMA now is far superior to the low end MMA fighter of 1999. But the guys at the top, the Tito Ortizs, the Guy Mezgers, those guys were fucking awesome and ridiculously well rounded and would do very well even in today's competitve landscape.

2/2/13 10:00 AM
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HexRei
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I was gonna bring up the whole "decisively won the opening round" thing because chuck "decisively knocked out" mezger after that. chuck was a good matchup for mezger because he would stand with him, and mezger's strength was certainly his kickboxing, but he still ultimately lost that fight (and as a pride fan I would have thought you'd care more about the outcome of the fight than what happened in a given round).


When I say he'd get smoked today I think it is because he would get blanketed by most wrestlers today. It is common for today's fighters to train heavily in the basic subs that Guy had at his disposal so he wouldn't be catching many guillotines for example and he wouldn't be getting back up either, not when american free is a more or less a foundation in today's successful fighters.
2/2/13 10:10 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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HexRei - I was gonna bring up the whole "decisively won the opening round" thing because chuck "decisively knocked out" mezger after that. chuck was a good matchup for mezger because he would stand with him, and mezger's strength was certainly his kickboxing, but he still ultimately lost that fight (and as a pride fan I would have thought you'd care more about the outcome of the fight than what happened in a given round).


When I say he'd get smoked today I think it is because he would get blanketed by most wrestlers today. It is common for today's fighters to train heavily in the basic subs that Guy had at his disposal so he wouldn't be catching many guillotines for example and he wouldn't be getting back up either, not when american free is a more or less a foundation in today's successful fighters.

Of course the outcome of the fight is ultimately what matters most, but what happens before the finish is also an important component of the fight, too. The reason I cited the Chuck fight is to showcase how talented Mezger was; somebody who beats Chuck Liddell for 10 minutes is a great fighter.

I don't think he'd get blanketed today by most fighters. Guy Mezger was an underrated wrestler. He wasn't a fish out of water when he got taken down, he knew how to scramble, too. Sure, the top wrestlers like a Rashad, or a Jon Jones would be a tough matchup for him, but a top 5 guy like a Gustaffson, a Shogun, a Machida, these are fighters Guy Mezger can hang with. I'm not saying he would beat them, it'd be really hard, but he's game.

2/2/13 10:14 AM
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12
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Enemies - Okay, so I just looked some stuff up. Rousey is 26.

When Tito was 26 he had already fought and beat Wanderlei Silva for the Light Heavyweight belt. Then defended it 4 times consecutively before the age of 27 including another time vs. Ken Shamrock after he turned 27.

So, I like Dana but he's talking out of his ass on this one.

dont hate on dana because he thinks a 3rd place medal in the olympics is worth more then a ufc belt.

 

2/2/13 11:20 AM
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soremano
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American1177 -  It's women's MMA who cares Phone Post

lol at 'who cares'

plenty of people care that's why it's the main fight on the card

I feel like most people who complain about stuff like this don't actually care about tito, they are just mad that women are being celebrated as warriors in the ufc and being treated with same respect on par with their male colleagues in regards to their popularity, betting opportunity and fighting skills; as opposed to being submissive domestic servants (get back in the kitchen) and sex objects (ring girls) that the 18-34 male demographic so desperately wants woman to be

guess what it's only gonna get worse, after ronda wins this fight in her usual dominant fasion she will be promoted through the roof and the 135lb female ufc division is coming right behind

2/2/13 11:26 AM
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Symbolic
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Why even compare? Different people, different time in life. That's lame of Dana to say those things, Tito is Cyborgs manager and just trying to build a fight, and Dana is acting like he's a manager himself Phone Post
2/2/13 11:31 AM
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Arsenal88
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soremano -
American1177 -  It's women's MMA who cares Phone Post

lol at 'who cares'

plenty of people care that's why it's the main fight on the card

I feel like most people who complain about stuff like this don't actually care about tito, they are just mad that women are being celebrated as warriors in the ufc and being treated with same respect on par with their male colleagues in regards to their popularity, betting opportunity and fighting skills; as opposed to being submissive domestic servants (get back in the kitchen) and sex objects (ring girls) that the 18-34 male demographic so desperately wants woman to be

guess what it's only gonna get worse, after ronda wins this fight in her usual dominant fasion she will be promoted through the roof and the 135lb female ufc division is coming right behind

I don't think "plenty of people care" I think it's that the guy who not too long ago was shitting on wmma, flip flops, and is now trying to shove rousey down people's throats by making it the main event. Phone Post
2/2/13 11:42 AM
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soremano
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JkdSam - 
ImA2TimeLoser -  Dana sound like a dummy here. Jeez, have sex with her and let's move on already. Phone Post

It sure looks like he's chasing her for sex - or already got it lol.

Tito's total minutes in the Octagon at that age are high because he had a long war with Frank Shamrock - the pfp best in MMA at the time - one of the greats of all time - that Dana refuses to acknowledge even exists. To compare any of Ronda's opponents to Frank Shamrock is beyond stupidity, but Dana isn't stupid, so it has to be something else causing him to say shit like that.

Dana is either chasing Ronda, or already had her.


the only thing dana is chasing is dollar signs

I find it predictably typical that people can not accept ronda as being a draw and a good business investment for dana and fertittas, and have to excuse it by making themselves believe that she is only where she is by having sex with somebody

2/2/13 12:45 PM
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wink91wink
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r_o_y - 
wink91wink - I don't see the problem here? All he is saying is that the whole division should be getting recognition not just Rousey, and Dana gets all defensive. She was handed the belt without fighting in the UFC. She has had an impressive couple of fights in strikeforce, but comparing her career to tito's, even at any point in their careers, just seems silly to me.

She was handed a ufc belt...

Kind of like cruz and aldo were,

Kind of like they have defended it in the UFC before getting this kind of attention...
2/2/13 2:00 PM
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Another Foob
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12SixElbow - 
Another Foob - 
KboyFresh - Dana's logic is mindless, sport grappling and MMA are two completely different things. Using one to justify a position in another doesn't make much sense to me.

Look at Tito's first nine fights and then compare them to Ronda's. I'm almost insulted that Dana would compare Tito's 40 minutes to Ronda's 10. Tito faced killers, Ronda not really.


Yeah, killers like Guy Metzger. Well, Tito lost that one, but...

I love how misogynistic foobs think 90s mma was more competitive than olympic judo. Being the first American to medal in a sport that has been practiced all over the world for over a hundred years is a slightly bigger deal than winning most of your matches in a sport that has 20 people competing in it. *eye roll*

If you're half an MMA fan you know Guy was a fucknig beast, and Tito went 1 - 1 with him within his first nine fights. The fight he lost to guy was Tito's second fight ever... SECOND fight, it was Guy's 20th, guy had already fought guys like Bas, and Semmy Schilt. Give credit where credit is due.

 


My sarcasm came off wrong. I didn't really intend to dis Mezger. I didn't even mean to dis Tito. I just think the overall talent pool in international judo is bigger and more developed today than cage fighting was in 1997.

My rebuttal was really directed at KboyFresh and others who were asserting that Ronda has never accomplished anything noteworthy, because women are inherently inferior.
2/2/13 3:50 PM
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Carl Sonnen
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I can't believe I am saying this, but I agree with Tito on this one. The talent pool that Ronda is competing against was inferior to the pool Tito fought against. Dana is just a better speaker and Sophist. Tito has a cracked cranium or whatever.
2/2/13 3:57 PM
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GTFOOHWTBS
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"at the same point and age in your career"

He's right.

2/2/13 4:23 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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If Dana isn't fucking Ronda he is King of the Friend Zone forever.

No man has ever white knighted for any woman as hard as this without fucking her.

Brock Lesnar drew money from day one.

Day one.

Dana wasn't half in the Brock Lesnar business as he is in the Ronda Rousey business.

This is Dana as Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's couch talking about how happy he is to love Ronda.

Someone make a gif.

Damn. Phone Post
2/2/13 6:32 PM
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KKM
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Dana was sucking Titos dick when he was champion. Now hes saying a chick who hasnt even proven she will be at the top of the heap for more than two fights blows him away? Dana needs to get his dislike for tito in check because hes saying really stupid shit.
2/2/13 6:35 PM
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xakx
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KKM is right, Dana was all over Tito's nuts for a while. It was Tito say Dana do. Hard to believe right?
2/2/13 7:24 PM
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cross3dout
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Wow some of u guys are whiny bitches. Phone Post
2/2/13 10:20 PM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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"2nd how big is women's judo honestly? I dont' know anyone who follows it outside of the small judo community. It's not a prestigious medal as much as you guys who enjoy your pajama parties like to pretend."

Judo is the most competitive female combat sport in the world.  There are nearly 200 countries that field women''s teams.  There are currently 147 Women who are on the World Ranking List...In Ronda's former 70kg division.

In most World Ranking Tournaments, the host country can only field 2-4 competitors in one division and other countries 1-2.  So, on the WRL, you are basically looking at a maximum of the best 1-4 athletes for major judo powers and 1 or maybe two for lesser judo powers who won't have the funding to support more than 1 athlete.

Now imagine how many women there are competing in each of those countries to be the very best or in the top 3-4.  It is pretty damn tough to get to the top.

 

 


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