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UnderGround Forums >> Carmouche's neck crank on rousey


2/24/13 9:19 AM
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cycklops
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Leck Brosnar - 
mulder68 -  What was Rousey doing with her hands? She was trying to take the hooks out when she should have had two on one on the choking arm. Yes she got out of it but she could have easily had her arm trapped too.

Text book defence: hands on the choking arm. Phone Post

No choke here, no need to hand fight. She knew if she just peeled the hooks off she could reverse her and that's exactly what happened.

This

 

2/24/13 2:26 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 02/24/13 2:27 PM
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Winston Wolf - ya name some ? lets see the video

Name some? Are you kidding? There is a long history of neck cranks in Mixed Martial Arts. Too many examples to list. You can't use Google to find them? Apparently you are as inexperienced with the internet as you are with Mixed Martial Arts.

Here are just a few examples.. complete with pictures and video.

Enjoy!

Damien Maia def. Rick Story
October 13, 2012




Richard Odoms def. Jake Heun
January 21, 2012




Shinya Aoki def. Rich Clementi
May 29, 2011




Shinya Aoki def. Rob McCullough
Sep 24, 2011




Shinya Aoki def. Todd Moore
September 23, 2008
2/24/13 2:26 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 02/24/13 2:26 PM
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WikiTheWalrus - 
Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that

This is the correct.

No, it's not correct.
2/24/13 2:40 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 02/24/13 2:40 PM
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Other recent examples:

Jason Cardillo def Zac Gobel
January 28 , 2012


TJ Dillishaw def. Vaughan Lee
July 11, 2012
2/24/13 2:43 PM
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Bucephalus
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Leck Brosnar - 
mulder68 -  What was Rousey doing with her hands? She was trying to take the hooks out when she should have had two on one on the choking arm. Yes she got out of it but she could have easily had her arm trapped too.

Text book defence: hands on the choking arm. Phone Post

No choke here, no need to hand fight. She knew if she just peeled the hooks off she could reverse her and that's exactly what happened.

CORRECT!

It helps to refer to "text book defense" when it's actually a choke. It wasn't a choke. It was a crank.. hence Ronda's best move was to remove he hooks. The second she did, she was free...

2/24/13 2:59 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Edited: 02/24/13 3:00 PM
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ok i stand corrected there was more than I thought.Its kind of considered dirty in rolling IMO .In rolling usually most would try to bare with the pain because its not going to put you to sleep But in a fight i guess it could hurt.In last nights fight I dont think Ronda was close to tapping
2/24/13 3:00 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 02/24/13 3:00 PM
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Winston Wolf - ok i stand corrected there was more than I thought.Its kind of considered dirty in rolling IMO

So is punching someone in the face. lol

(and respect for eating crow like a man)
2/24/13 3:02 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Aokis were nasty
2/24/13 3:02 PM
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Bucephalus
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It really is a BRUTAL finish. If feels like your jaw/neck/face is going to crack.
2/24/13 3:06 PM
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Chris27
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Bucephalus just shit all over Winston Wolf.
2/24/13 4:14 PM
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WikiTheWalrus
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Bucephalus - 
WikiTheWalrus - 
Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that

This is the correct.

No, it's not correct.

Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank.

This argument isn't whether a neck crank has ever finished anyone, it is whether an experienced grappler would have tapped to what Carmouche had on Rousey. Being an experienced grappler, I would not. I would do exactly what Rousey did. (and I have before in a jits tourney during the gold medal match, ending in an americana win for me)
2/24/13 4:18 PM
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DiazsBongWater
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Huge props to Ronda on coming back and beating Uriah Faber after that nasty face crank. Phone Post
2/24/13 4:24 PM
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cheesesteak
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Not a neck crank in any way. Just a desperation choke/lip lock...It does nothing but piss off the more skilled grappler you attempt it on.
2/24/13 4:26 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 02/24/13 4:26 PM
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WikiTheWalrus - Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank.

This argument isn't whether a neck crank has ever finished anyone, it is whether an experienced grappler would have tapped to what Carmouche had on Rousey. Being an experienced grappler, I would not. I would do exactly what Rousey did. (and I have before in a jits tourney during the gold medal match, ending in an americana win for me)

Ah.. so now it's matter of semantics? Allow me to clarify.

By "that" I assumed that he meant "that type of submission".. not "that exact position". Apparently the guy who originally made the comment "anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that" meant just what I assumed given our subsequent dialogue.

And fwiw, I don't disagree with much of what you said, but there are plenty of high level grapplers who have and will tap to that type of submission.
2/25/13 12:26 AM
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WikiTheWalrus
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Bucephalus - 
WikiTheWalrus - Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank.

This argument isn't whether a neck crank has ever finished anyone, it is whether an experienced grappler would have tapped to what Carmouche had on Rousey. Being an experienced grappler, I would not. I would do exactly what Rousey did. (and I have before in a jits tourney during the gold medal match, ending in an americana win for me)

Ah.. so now it's matter of semantics? Allow me to clarify.

By "that" I assumed that he meant "that type of submission".. not "that exact position". Apparently the guy who originally made the comment "anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that" meant just what I assumed given our subsequent dialogue.

And fwiw, I don't disagree with much of what you said, but there are plenty of high level grapplers who have and will tap to that type of submission.

My argument was never about semantics. If you go back and read my whole post, not just the one line you quoted, I had the exact same argument as my last post. Maybe WW was referring to neck cranks in general, but I obviously was not.
2/25/13 12:57 AM
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rundymc
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Winston Wolf - 
Bucephalus - 
Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that

Don't be an idiot. Neck cranks like that have tapped many experienced grapplers.

ya name some ? lets see the video

Demian Maia hit it on Story.

I'm a purple belt myself, and while I don't like tapping to cranks (for some reason I consider them "cheat" moves lol), I always do if it's tight enough, as it was in Story's case.

A good face crank from an RNC, or a neck crank from an anaconda attempt, can crack your shit. Rousey simply did a good job of untangling Carmouche's legs.
2/25/13 12:57 AM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 02/25/13 12:57 AM
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WikiTheWalrus -  Maybe WW was referring to neck cranks in general, but I obviously was not.

Great. Well I said he was incorrect. And he has already acknowledged it.

Thanks for your input.
2/25/13 4:09 AM
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Pessimist_Pete
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WikiTheWalrus -
Bucephalus - 
WikiTheWalrus - 
Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that

This is the correct.

No, it's not correct.

Yes it is. Every one of the examples posted above proves my point. In order for the crank to work from back mount, Rousey's back needed to be straight and turned into the crank. She was bending forward and her head was away from the crank.

This argument isn't whether a neck crank has ever finished anyone, it is whether an experienced grappler would have tapped to what Carmouche had on Rousey. Being an experienced grappler, I would not. I would do exactly what Rousey did. (and I have before in a jits tourney during the gold medal match, ending in an americana win for me)
I submitted you with a neck crank in the hold medal match. Phone Post
2/25/13 4:23 AM
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Mulisha01
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Winston Wolf - anyone who has rolled is not tapping to that

finished somone in a pro fight last weekend with a neck crank from back control .. il give u a link but it just looks like a rnc from the camera angle

http://youtu.be/HBWq8tPdIS4
2/25/13 4:31 AM
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Caught_clean
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Marcello himself in his rolled up interview talks about how tucking your chin is not a defense and how he was taught that early (and roughly) in Brazil. In training people usually wont just crush your jaw, so people think its fine to just do that, then go into a tournament and get crushed and act like it was a illegal technique. Her not hand fighting there only shows what she can get away with at that level, look how fast Uriah ironically finished a much better grappler from that position 2 fights before.

2/25/13 7:40 AM
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Winston Wolf
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Chris27 - Bucephalus just shit all over Winston Wolf.

i admitted i was wrong i bet youve never been wrong.I dont claim to be a elite grappler but am a purple belt for 4 years.Ive never once tapped to a neck crank.Maybe its because they are considered dirty where i train and nobody would use them.The jaw crush IMO is especially dirty .If u cant get the choke under the neck crushing the face IMO is cheap but it is effective
2/25/13 7:49 AM
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drrilll
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I rolled with a bodybuilder and he caught me with that. I tapped. The pain was excruciating.
2/25/13 9:17 AM
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cheesesteak
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Maaaaadooooooon!

For the last time you guys. There is absolutely no neck crank there. In order for there to have been a neck crank you'd need a BASE, lever and fulcrum. There was no BASE...It's just some chick desperately trying to power her forearm through Rondas lips to get her to tap.


Come on now guys...Do any of yous TRANE??
2/25/13 9:21 AM
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cheesesteak
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I'll admit that Liz was using the proper technique of a crank, But she would of needed to base out somewhere not just floating around her back while Ronda is standing...Without the base it's just a face press...Am I wrong here?
2/25/13 9:36 AM
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cruedi
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It's what coleman tapped dan severn with, although severn was on the ground experienced grapplers get tapped like that.

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