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UnderGround Forums >> John Cholish blasts UFC fighter pay


5/24/13 7:51 AM
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Megatherium
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I Hunt Purple-Headed Yogurt Slingers - 


Hahahaha!!!
5/24/13 8:15 AM
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New Leaf 1.0
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People comparing being in the UFC to being in the NFL or NBA are out of their mind. Guys with 3 years experience and 5 fights in their life are in the UFC. NBA players have 10-15 years of experience and probably close to 1k games before they make it to the NBA. It's way more exclusive and they make tons more money for the teams and the league.

Even a Single A baseball player is more evolved in their sport than an entry level UFC fighter. Its much harder to make it to single A ball than to make it to the UFC. Single A baseball pays between $850 - $1050 a month during the season and nothing in the off season. The majority of Triple-A baseball players make $2150 a month during the season and nothing during the offseason.

Boxing - these guys would make $50-$100 a round.
5/24/13 8:22 AM
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Chromium
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canuck34 - 
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I got 10/10 for the UFC against Miletich back in 98 but I fought for 2/2 earlier in the night.

I think if you are in the UFC then you are in the NFL and MLB or NBA.  Pick the bottom guys salary in that sport and that should be the new guys in the UFC.  If you don't want to pay them like the elite athletes in other sports don't let them in the UFC until you do.  This would make it more difficult to get in the UFC and it would make it more prestigious when you do get there.  The bottom guy in the UFC should be making a few hundred thousand a year no questions asked.  They get cut just like other athletes so they will be working harder than ever not to get cut.  Raise the pay and lose the bottom tier.

Lol at bottom guys getting paid a few hundred grand! Are you kidding?

Maybe when guys are fighting 16 times a year! Or how about 80 times a year?

Comparing fighting to other pro sports is hilarious. Phone Post

You spend much of that down-time training and much of it healing. Are you seriously comparing being in an MMA fight at the elite level to a single basketball game or even a football game? Your career often can live or die by a specific win or loss and people spend many weeks in advance training for a specific fight against a specific opponent.

I wouldn't compare MMA to the Big 4 sports in America but there's an ocean of difference between making what the lowest-tier guys in the UFC make and making $300,000 a year. Somewehere in between there is a living wage and that's all I've been advocating. And seriously, if you're not really a "name" yet, how many seminar gigs are you going to get? Should you really be bouncing or firefighting when you could be working on your fighting game? Those things should be optional, not mandatory.

Now, most people at that tier aren't really going to pan out, but most people start there, and those people need to be fostered. Pat Barry was living off rice and ketchup by the time he had his third fight, having gone 1-1 before that. He got that double bonus when he beat Antoni Hardonk at UFC 104, and beat the student of a coach who treated him like shit when he was a kickboxer, and he got a happy ending. But it's obscene he was in that position at that point. It's not like that was his first UFC fight and his first Zuffa payday. The dude was living like he was borderline destitute. Barry could have gotten extra work on the side, sure, but would he have won his fight if he had, and it cut into his training time?

A living wage, that's all I'm advocating. You can structure it where fighters are still "hungry" to win without having to split up their time between being "hungry" and making ends meet, and if a fighter chooses to dedicate everything vocationally to training as a fighter, there should be need for any UFC fighter to be literally hungry because they can't afford proper food.

5/24/13 8:32 AM
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Chromium
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New Leaf 1.0 - People comparing being in the UFC to being in the NFL or NBA are out of their mind. Guys with 3 years experience and 5 fights in their life are in the UFC. NBA players have 10-15 years of experience and probably close to 1k games before they make it to the NBA. It's way more exclusive and they make tons more money for the teams and the league.

Even a Single A baseball player is more evolved in their sport than an entry level UFC fighter. Its much harder to make it to single A ball than to make it to the UFC. Single A baseball pays between $850 - $1050 a month during the season and nothing in the off season. The majority of Triple-A baseball players make $2150 a month during the season and nothing during the offseason.

Boxing - these guys would make $50-$100 a round.

How many UFC fighters come into the UFC having been some schlub before they got into fighting? Now, not everyone was wrestling since they were 5 like Josh Koscheck, but pretending like that's the entire sum of their pre-UFC experience is ridiculous. How much time does your average BJJ blackbelt put in? Or NCAA All-American? Or Olympic judoka or wrestler? How much time training? And how much do you think they were fucking paid for those things prior to making it to the UFC? Unless you medaled in the Olympics you generally got paid nothing at all (and even then not a lot). And again, few people are advocating the same pay scale as the NBA or NFL, just one where it's guaranteed you can live off of it.

5/24/13 8:43 AM
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Chromium
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Tomato Can - You really need a side job on $40k?

The median American income is only like $50k.

Jacob Volkmann is a fucking tool, just for the record. If he has three children and a wife and he was having a bit of trouble making ends meet, first of all he should have listened to everyone that was telling him that he was horribly unfunny and ratings poison in his post-fight interviews, and not risk being cut off of a single loss (not to mention gotten more sponsors), and secondly he should have asked his wife to take on a job to help support the family. Then again this is the same dude who, when he got a chance to voice his frustration about Barrack Obama on Fox News, chose to talk about just how horrible all the paperwork was he that had to fill out for the Affordable Healthcare Act. The dude finds the strangest things to bitch about.

While it pains me to agree with him, I agree with his overall point that the UFC pay-structure is flawed. However I'm pretty sure he wasn't one of those fighters who's been underpaid.

5/24/13 8:57 AM
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Jaybrone
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JetSetter - When you start at a firm on Wall St you start in the mail room making 25k per year while your boss is making $50 million per year.
People act like the UFC is so out of line with the rest of society but its all relative.

The reality in life is Be the best and get the best pay or change professions Phone Post 3.0

When you make it to the UFC, you've proven to be the best according to them. They state they have all the best fighters.. and yet the monicker of U FIGHT CHEAP is stated by many behind the scenes. 

Oh look RVD bashing the UFC and Zuffa. Never saw this post coming...

And look at the mid card guys on record as saying they get taken care of. Even guys on this very forum like Vinny, Creepy, etc. Phone Post 3.0
5/24/13 9:26 AM
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canuck34
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Chromium -
canuck34 - 
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I got 10/10 for the UFC against Miletich back in 98 but I fought for 2/2 earlier in the night.

I think if you are in the UFC then you are in the NFL and MLB or NBA.  Pick the bottom guys salary in that sport and that should be the new guys in the UFC.  If you don't want to pay them like the elite athletes in other sports don't let them in the UFC until you do.  This would make it more difficult to get in the UFC and it would make it more prestigious when you do get there.  The bottom guy in the UFC should be making a few hundred thousand a year no questions asked.  They get cut just like other athletes so they will be working harder than ever not to get cut.  Raise the pay and lose the bottom tier.

Lol at bottom guys getting paid a few hundred grand! Are you kidding?

Maybe when guys are fighting 16 times a year! Or how about 80 times a year?

Comparing fighting to other pro sports is hilarious. Phone Post

You spend much of that down-time training and much of it healing. Are you seriously comparing being in an MMA fight at the elite level to a single basketball game or even a football game? Your career often can live or die by a specific win or loss and people spend many weeks in advance training for a specific fight against a specific opponent.

I wouldn't compare MMA to the Big 4 sports in America but there's an ocean of difference between making what the lowest-tier guys in the UFC make and making $300,000 a year. Somewehere in between there is a living wage and that's all I've been advocating. And seriously, if you're not really a "name" yet, how many seminar gigs are you going to get? Should you really be bouncing or firefighting when you could be working on your fighting game? Those things should be optional, not mandatory.

Now, most people at that tier aren't really going to pan out, but most people start there, and those people need to be fostered. Pat Barry was living off rice and ketchup by the time he had his third fight, having gone 1-1 before that. He got that double bonus when he beat Antoni Hardonk at UFC 104, and beat the student of a coach who treated him like shit when he was a kickboxer, and he got a happy ending. But it's obscene he was in that position at that point. It's not like that was his first UFC fight and his first Zuffa payday. The dude was living like he was borderline destitute. Barry could have gotten extra work on the side, sure, but would he have won his fight if he had, and it cut into his training time?

A living wage, that's all I'm advocating. You can structure it where fighters are still "hungry" to win without having to split up their time between being "hungry" and making ends meet, and if a fighter chooses to dedicate everything vocationally to training as a fighter, there should be need for any UFC fighter to be literally hungry because they can't afford proper food.

No, what I am doing is saying you can't compare them.

Also, you think pro football players don't train, practice etc...constantly??? Phone Post
5/24/13 9:45 AM
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Tomato Can
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Tomato Can - You really need a side job on $40k?

The median American income is only like $50k.

You do when you have to use a good portion of that for job related expenses. Combine that with a family and you have no money.

Not to mention, your fighting career most likely won't last more than a few years which means you should be stashing money away to make up for the loss of income when you are the new guy at your next job.

I'm a little curious about all this "training costs" talk. What is the basis of fighters (particularly low-level fighters) claiming $8k in training costs? How do trainers usually charge? I used to assume it was by percentage of purse, which I think is at least the case for most boxers. For example I think Ray Beltran probably pays Freddie Roach a lot less than Manny Pacquiao does, so I'd also assume John Cholish pays Danaher and Nurse a lot less than GSP does.

Also, if you really are legitimately accruing large training costs, couldn't you write them off as a job-related expense?
5/24/13 9:46 AM
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Lynchman
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One thing that does bother me about this is that Cholish does not mention sponsorships. He covers EVERY expense, but what about endorsements? The general purpose of sponsors is help offset the costs of being a fighter. Cholish is a lower level fighter, but I know of some prelim guys that have done 6-10k, per fight, from sponsors.

And the whole tax thing is very misleading: A large portion of the costs of being a fighter are deducted as business expenses.

I am not saying that John does not raise some good points, just that he is choosing to only include that which backs up his point. He is not lying, just being selective with what he talks about. This is the opposite of Volkman, who actually lied about what he made by tens of thousands.

Personally, I think 10+10 should be the UFC minimum. To expect unknown prelim guys to get much more is silly, especially when you factor in what the UFC is paying for insurance and travel expenses.

At 10+10, a fighter going 2-1 would make 50k IF he did not receive any raises. Virtually all contracts see the pay go up with wins so 2-1 would likely be 60k. Not huge money, but not unreasonable for a relatively unknown fighter.
5/24/13 9:47 AM
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Lynchman
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Tomato Can - 
cdmontgo - 
Tomato Can - You really need a side job on $40k?

The median American income is only like $50k.

You do when you have to use a good portion of that for job related expenses. Combine that with a family and you have no money.

Not to mention, your fighting career most likely won't last more than a few years which means you should be stashing money away to make up for the loss of income when you are the new guy at your next job.

I'm a little curious about all this "training costs" talk. What is the basis of fighters (particularly low-level fighters) claiming $8k in training costs? How do trainers usually charge? I used to assume it was by percentage of purse, which I think is at least the case for most boxers. For example I think Ray Beltran probably pays Freddie Roach a lot less than Manny Pacquiao does, so I'd also assume John Cholish pays Danaher and Nurse a lot less than GSP does.

Also, if you really are legitimately accruing large training costs, couldn't you write them off as a job-related expense?

Most training expenses are tax deductable.
5/24/13 1:03 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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Tomato Can - 
cdmontgo - 
Tomato Can - You really need a side job on $40k?

The median American income is only like $50k.

You do when you have to use a good portion of that for job related expenses. Combine that with a family and you have no money.

Not to mention, your fighting career most likely won't last more than a few years which means you should be stashing money away to make up for the loss of income when you are the new guy at your next job.

I'm a little curious about all this "training costs" talk. What is the basis of fighters (particularly low-level fighters) claiming $8k in training costs? How do trainers usually charge? I used to assume it was by percentage of purse, which I think is at least the case for most boxers. For example I think Ray Beltran probably pays Freddie Roach a lot less than Manny Pacquiao does, so I'd also assume John Cholish pays Danaher and Nurse a lot less than GSP does.

Also, if you really are legitimately accruing large training costs, couldn't you write them off as a job-related expense?

I'd also like Cholish to break down his training costs.

Obviously, the top tier guys like GSP spend a ton on training because they fly in training partners from around the world and have exclusive use of world class S&C coaches and dieticians.

But for entry level guys like Cholish, isn't he just paying his monthly dues at Renzos school? I'm pretty sure he ain't flying in guys from Thailand to work on his stand up game. I'm sure a team like Renzos must get some sort of group deal on S&C coaches.

When Cholish says he spends $8K on training camps, is that for the whole year? Or do Renzo and Danaher charge him extra beyond just his monthly gym dues? I've heard of some pros training for free as long they have their team/gym logo on their fight shorts.
5/24/13 4:13 PM
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WestsideStrangler
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Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

5/24/13 4:38 PM
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Tomato Can
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I know what you're saying but they used to put on like 40 fights a year. Now it's almost 400. There are gonna be some guys in there you've never heard of, it's just a natural consequence of the company's growth.
5/24/13 7:07 PM
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CindyO
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WestsideStrangler - 

Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.


Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

 

Ouch. That's a lot of jobs you don't mind people losing.

 

Cindy

5/24/13 7:31 PM
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BTT-RyannVonDoom
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Jaybrone -
BTT-RyannVonDoom -
JetSetter - When you start at a firm on Wall St you start in the mail room making 25k per year while your boss is making $50 million per year.
People act like the UFC is so out of line with the rest of society but its all relative.

The reality in life is Be the best and get the best pay or change professions Phone Post 3.0

When you make it to the UFC, you've proven to be the best according to them. They state they have all the best fighters.. and yet the monicker of U FIGHT CHEAP is stated by many behind the scenes. 

Oh look RVD bashing the UFC and Zuffa. Never saw this post coming...

And look at the mid card guys on record as saying they get taken care of. Even guys on this very forum like Vinny, Creepy, etc. Phone Post 3.0
Oh look, ignoring my points and not addressing anything. Awesome. I've made a face turn, and there's literally no bashing of zuffa in my post. Phone Post 3.0
5/24/13 10:42 PM
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WestsideStrangler
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CindyO - 
WestsideStrangler - 

Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.


Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

 

Ouch. That's a lot of jobs you don't mind people losing.

 

Cindy


It's true.  Some of them probably shoudn't have been there in the first place and others (Like Fitch) who I dont think should have been cut in the first place should be back in no time.  Some of the guys are off the show and everyone on the show gets a crack at it (This is a mistake I think).  Takes away from the winner imo.  Anyway if your getting cut work harder.

Shit when I fought in UFC 35 Gil Castillo was coming off a decision loss in the 185 division and moves to 170 and decisions me and I got cut.  Fight was boring and we were both to blame. I got cut and he fought Hughes for the title.  It's all about winning.

5/24/13 10:58 PM
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HexRei
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WestsideStrangler - 
CindyO - 
WestsideStrangler - 

Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.


Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

 

Ouch. That's a lot of jobs you don't mind people losing.

 

Cindy


It's true.  Some of them probably shoudn't have been there in the first place and others (Like Fitch) who I dont think should have been cut in the first place should be back in no time.  Some of the guys are off the show and everyone on the show gets a crack at it (This is a mistake I think).  Takes away from the winner imo.  Anyway if your getting cut work harder.

Shit when I fought in UFC 35 Gil Castillo was coming off a decision loss in the 185 division and moves to 170 and decisions me and I got cut.  Fight was boring and we were both to blame. I got cut and he fought Hughes for the title.  It's all about winning.


Doubly so, since after he won with the D, Matt won via doctor stoppage from accidental headbutt cut...
5/26/13 1:27 AM
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CindyO
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WestsideStrangler - 
CindyO - 
WestsideStrangler - 

Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.


Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

 

Ouch. That's a lot of jobs you don't mind people losing.

 

Cindy


It's true.  Some of them probably shoudn't have been there in the first place and others (Like Fitch) who I dont think should have been cut in the first place should be back in no time.  Some of the guys are off the show and everyone on the show gets a crack at it (This is a mistake I think).  Takes away from the winner imo.  Anyway if your getting cut work harder.

Shit when I fought in UFC 35 Gil Castillo was coming off a decision loss in the 185 division and moves to 170 and decisions me and I got cut.  Fight was boring and we were both to blame. I got cut and he fought Hughes for the title.  It's all about winning.


Not saying I disagree with you at all but was caught off guard with your honesty. Kind of a rare thing, if you think about it. Thanks for that:)

 

Cindy

5/26/13 1:42 AM
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WestsideStrangler
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CindyO - 
WestsideStrangler - 
CindyO - 
WestsideStrangler - 

Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.


Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

 

Ouch. That's a lot of jobs you don't mind people losing.

 

Cindy


It's true.  Some of them probably shoudn't have been there in the first place and others (Like Fitch) who I dont think should have been cut in the first place should be back in no time.  Some of the guys are off the show and everyone on the show gets a crack at it (This is a mistake I think).  Takes away from the winner imo.  Anyway if your getting cut work harder.

Shit when I fought in UFC 35 Gil Castillo was coming off a decision loss in the 185 division and moves to 170 and decisions me and I got cut.  Fight was boring and we were both to blame. I got cut and he fought Hughes for the title.  It's all about winning.


Not saying I disagree with you at all but was caught off guard with your honesty. Kind of a rare thing, if you think about it. Thanks for that:)

 

Cindy


That's what I'm here for you :-)

 

5/26/13 1:49 AM
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dubate
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WestsideStrangler -

Bottom guys?  My arguement is there should be no bottom guys in the UFC.  My arguement is when you get to the UFC you should be the cream of the crop and get what you have earned to get there.  Brock Lesner wouldn't walk on the an NFL team and play in the superbowl a couple games later just cuz he's Brock Lesner.  There shouldnt be any exceptions.  I think the guys in the UFC should be special and paid special.  I think they pay is much better now and I'm not complaining about what they get now I'm just giving my opinion of what i think the UFC should be and stand for.  Instead of buying and closing smaller organizations they should stick all the guys that arent rockstars in there and work your way.  When you have a few shitty fights its back to the minors until you can make it back up to the show.  Maybe it's too difficult to do I dont know I'm just saying what I think would be cool.

Back in the day retards would say to me "Oh ya my buddy joe fucking shmo fought in the UFC too" and I could say bull shit I know every fucking name that has ever stepped in the Octagon.  Now adays I have no clue they could be correct there are so many dudes there now.  Watered down and I'm glad there are 100 cuts coming.

I just don't see why the UFC needs to keep more than who they have in the top 25 from each weight class. Throw in some gatekeepers, a few fan favorites, plus a couple of up and coming prospects and that would give them around 200-250 fighters. Then it really would be the cream of the crop. Phone Post
5/26/13 2:15 AM
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dubate
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nobones -
Dominique Robinson - Cholish has some points Phone Post 3.0

I agree, he has some decent points.  But his credibility is shot to hell when he broke down the PPV revenue without subtracting what the PPV companies take which is 50%.  Also of all his criticism he doesn't criticize the ridiculous Brazilian tax which isn't a UFC problem it is a problem between the US and Brazilian government.  Also, the concept of your employer giving you a raise after you low ball yourself and underperform...doesn't make sense.  He admits he took a low price contract because 'he wasn't about the money'.  Well that was stupid.  

I'm not about the money, so I didn't pay attention to my contract when I signed it. However, let me talk about how unfair they are and how little money they pay me. Phone Post
5/26/13 2:52 AM
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dubate
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nobones -
dubate - 
nobones -
Dominique Robinson - Cholish has some points Phone Post 3.0

I agree, he has some decent points.  But his credibility is shot to hell when he broke down the PPV revenue without subtracting what the PPV companies take which is 50%.  Also of all his criticism he doesn't criticize the ridiculous Brazilian tax which isn't a UFC problem it is a problem between the US and Brazilian government.  Also, the concept of your employer giving you a raise after you low ball yourself and underperform...doesn't make sense.  He admits he took a low price contract because 'he wasn't about the money'.  Well that was stupid.  

I'm not about the money, so I didn't pay attention to my contract when I signed it. However, let me talk about how unfair they are and how little money they pay me. Phone Post

Exactly!  I took a job early in life out of college for $28,000 a year.  It was the best job I could get at the time.  I was 23 years old.  I worked up to $50,000 over four years but was still struggling and I felt my value to my company was much more than what I was being compensated.  I went out and got some job offers, and negotiated a pay increase as well as a bonus structure that allowed me to double my salary inside of two years after and today (10 years later) I am making more than 3x what I was making when I renegotiated my deal.

I didn't just bitch that my boss was so rich and he should just spread the wealth around.  NO BOSS wants to hear anything like that.  I have had employees before and the last thing I want to hear is someone complain about the pay they accepted.  If they come at me with a notification that they might leave and I value them then I will pay them more, but for sure I am trying to pay market value not more than that.

And I don't believe in unions.  Unions are short term solutions that lead to major long term problems.  Things become super political and usually the most corrupt people become the head of unions.  Unions are what can cause problems in sports.  They almost killed hockey once and set baseball and basketball back over time.

Seriously, the worst thing you can do for yourself is to count your boss's money. You guys don't have the same job, you're never going to make the same money while you're at that company. What you need to do is figure out how much you think you're worth, figure out a way to get comps to see if that number tracks, and then find somebody who will pay you that. If you can't, you aren't worth as much as you thought. Phone Post
5/26/13 3:23 AM
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WoodenPupa
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5/29/13 2:28 PM
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epwar
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Edited: 05/29/13 2:38 PM
Member Since: 5/28/07
Posts: 18340

Huge interview with Cholish by UG's own Crooklyn.  Well worth the read (which means most the UG won't read it).  

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/5/29/4374198/john-cholish-ufc-fighter-pay-dana-white

The best questions:

Stephie Daniels: After your interview with Ariel Helwani,Dana White has made some unfavorable comments directed at you. How do you feel about him sort of throwing you under the bus like that?

John Cholish: It's a little upsetting. I wasn't upset so much about the personal attack towards me. I felt it was more of an insult to all the fighters on the roster that he did not address a single one of my questions. I think they're important questions and they should be answered. Just from the support I've seen from MMA fans, it seems like they want some answers, too.

It's sad because any company I have ever worked for, or any professional sports organization in general, you would never hear a commissioner or a CEO speak about a former or current employee in the manner that Dana continuously speaks about his current and former fighters. Maybe that's just how the company is rub, but it seems unacceptable to me.

It would be nice if Zuffa answered those questions, not only for the fighters currently on their roster, but for other up and coming fighters that are just getting into the sport.

++++

Stephie Daniels: You mentioned that there are other fighters that share your opinions, but don't want to have their voices heard or be recognized for those opinions out of fear of repercussions. How many of those guys or what percentage would you estimate do share your opinions?

John Cholish: I would say 90% including some top tier fighters. It's interesting when you look at an event that takes place over the weekend, and the reported salaries for the entire roster on that card, 24 fighters or so, can be covered alone with the in-gate ticket sales at the venue. That's before you even get to the PPV, the licensing, the merchandising, the advertising and the contracted revenue with companies like FOX.

I don't know the exact numbers, but it's pretty obscene when you look at the revenue that the UFC is taking in, compared to the portion that they're giving back to the fighters. Last I checked, the fans are buying the PPV to see the guys inside the cage, not the owners sitting outside of it.

++++

Sadly, Dana can just ignore this issue and it will eventually disappear.

5/29/13 3:19 PM
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Lobo8
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Member Since: 5/22/12
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The pay is good for where the sport is right now. The bottom tier guys get paid peanuts but i dont have an issue with that because they are just card filler and the opportunity for them to work their way up to a bigger payday is there.

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