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UnderGround Forums >> why not start no-gi, train gi after?


5/20/13 8:16 AM
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WestsideStrangler
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Has any brazillian ever started nogi? Nope so you'll never know. Training nogi might cause bad habits (if you plan to train in the gi) however please teach me the good habits of passing guard with the gi or defending the guard pass with the gi and then take it off and show ke where it applies. It just created bad habits for the nogi guy now. Train for what you are doing. If you don't train and learn nogi like a fucktard then you won't roll like a fucktard. If ut teaches You how to explode and it works in nogi then why the fuck does it matter if it works in gi if you aren't doing gi? Phone Post
5/20/13 9:08 AM
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HELWIG
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"Like what? Just exploding?"

Exploding, no concept of proper hand positioning in positions, relying on leg locks rather than learning to pass and defend the pass, etc

"Is that because of the instructor though!? Phone Post 3.0"

It certainly could be.

I have no vested interest in this debate, btw. I dont care for gi. I tell my Renzo black belt instructor this. I started off wanting to be good at MMA, so I only did no gi for years.

Now, my overall game has gotten much better from putting in the time in the gi.

5/20/13 9:16 AM
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WestsideStrangler
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Or it got better just by putting in time Phone Post
5/20/13 9:48 AM
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KidJustice
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WestsideStrangler -  Or it got better just by putting in time Phone Post

Homerun...

5/20/13 10:42 AM
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CodeGeek
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I don't think there is that big of a difference between gi and no-gi. Gi gives you more gripping options and allows you to control your opponent at a greater distance (e.g. spider guard), whereas no-gi requires a tighter game. No-gi can be played more explosively, since there's less friction to deal with. But the fundamental principles of BJJ apply to both. Personally, I just don't find either to be *that* dissimilar.
5/20/13 11:13 AM
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hankatron
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WestsideStrangler - Has any brazillian ever started nogi? Nope so you'll never know. Training nogi might cause bad habits (if you plan to train in the gi) however please teach me the good habits of passing guard with the gi or defending the guard pass with the gi and then take it off and show ke where it applies. It just created bad habits for the nogi guy now. Train for what you are doing. If you don't train and learn nogi like a fucktard then you won't roll like a fucktard. If ut teaches You how to explode and it works in nogi then why the fuck does it matter if it works in gi if you aren't doing gi? Phone Post
This sounds like the most logical argument in this thread.

I've trained exclusively no-gi, and my coach prefers to teach it by a long way. He says in gi people progress slower because less happens because of all the gripping and slower pace. Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 11:25 AM
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Ray Elbe
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The guy with the better grips wins in the Gi,

The guy with better transitions wins Nogi. Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 12:16 PM
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AlexanderTheGOAT
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Ray Elbe - The guy with the better grips wins in the Gi,

The guy with better transitions wins Nogi. Phone Post 3.0
This Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 12:16 PM
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HELWIG
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"Or it got better just by putting in time".

Maybe.

But it was parts of my game that had been stagnant and not progressing. And weaknesses that I have a hard time believing just happened by chance to improve during the specific time I began regularly wearing the gi.

Note, I dont like gi training.

 

"The guy with the better grips wins in the Gi,

The guy with better transitions wins Nogi."

 

I would agree with that.

5/20/13 1:52 PM
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sekundarburnes
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i feel like some people are misunderstanding the question. the question is whether it makes more sense to start with no-gi and then move on to gi, given that no gi rolling is a less complicated (though not less difficult) activity than gi rolling (in response to someone's contradiction of that part of my post - gi rolling DOES involve more technique. there's just more to work with). i'm assuming here that every bjj guy will end up doing both, so of course it makes sense to train both. this wasn't an either-or proposition
5/20/13 1:58 PM
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sekundarburnes
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Huey Freeman - Serious question

Why do people say no gi is more realistic type of grappling compared to gi?

If you get in an altercation training in the gi gives you techniques if the guys wearing a jacket etc, I would say both are equally useful for self defense purposes.

Unless you only frequent establishment's with a strict rash guard dress code. Phone Post 3.0

my guess is that it's because no-gi involves more athleticism and aggression, which are usually the deciding factors in street fights. all in all though, a gi guy probably won't be less aggressive than a no-gi guy much, if it all, so for street stuff i agree with you. gi is better

unless you're looking at a couple guys in which case good diplomatic skills are the best things to train
5/20/13 2:05 PM
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Foos
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Chris Brennan's bringing some logic to this thread.

The level of instruction and training partners is the most important thing.

What you wear is secondary.

If the training partners and instruction is the same then wearing the Gi will make you better at the Gi game, and going NoGi will make you better at the NoGi game.

5/20/13 2:23 PM
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Marion Cobretti
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I constantly train with our Mma guys, i wear a gi and they don't. Only makes me better. I don't have the grips. Im also slowed down by the movement as they always grab my gi.

Marcelo solved this years ago. If you want the finest technique you need to train gi. Period. Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 2:47 PM
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HELWIG
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"If the training partners and instruction is the same then wearing the Gi will make you better at the Gi game, and going NoGi will make you better at the NoGi game."

Yes but most recognize that the gi game really refines their defense for escaping positions and subs.

And that no gi does the same for offense.

 

5/20/13 3:01 PM
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GregNoActionJackson
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KidJustice -
WestsideStrangler -  Or it got better just by putting in time Phone Post

Homerun...

There it is Phone Post
5/20/13 3:16 PM
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SidRon
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Imagine how much better a wrestler Cael Sanderson would have been if he trained wrestling in a gi. His escapes and takedown defense would have been so much more technical.
5/20/13 3:47 PM
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WestsideStrangler
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lol

5/20/13 4:36 PM
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Kostakio
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WestsideStrangler -

lol

haha Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 5:33 PM
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misterw
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Bad habits like scrambling around like a spaz, going for footlocks instead of passing guard, or relying on slipperiness to get out of subs get weeded out anyway, as people get better. You don't need to put on a gi to solve those problems.
5/21/13 12:12 AM
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WestsideStrangler
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Those problems sound like a problem of the person not the gi or nogi. I'm sure there are spazish people in both but if you train nogi with the gi principal's and control of bjj positioning then you have no bad habits to break once the gi is off. Phone Post
5/21/13 12:20 AM
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pulsar
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Foos - Chris Brennan's bringing some logic to this thread.

The level of instruction and training partners is the most important thing.

What you wear is secondary.

If the training partners and instruction is the same then wearing the Gi will make you better at the Gi game, and going NoGi will make you better at the NoGi game.


I do agree with that, like HELWIG I have no vested interest as I appreciate no gi grappling much more - both the technqiue and the fun of rolling no gi.

I basically in built the fact you'll likely get 'better' instruction from gi because likely those players are more interested and have likely spent more time specifically on JJ whereas no gi instructor 'x' has more likely spread his time among more aspects of no gi grappling (more varied takedowns, clinching etc).

5/21/13 10:58 AM
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Royce Nelson
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I know guys who are great at Nogi and suck at Gi and vice versa. I train both but you don't need the Gi. It doesn't have to be a necessity. Just depends what your focus is on. Phone Post

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