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UnderGround Forums >> What should the fighter minimum pay be?


5/20/13 2:41 PM
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Chris27
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10/10 is fair I think.

Or structure the contracts for less win money, 15 base and 5 win.




5/20/13 2:42 PM
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Tomato Can
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Poindexter - 

15/15 or 20/20 at least.


I'm sorry but this is not realistic.

For reference, Glen Johnson, a perennial top 10 LHW for almost a decade, had trouble finding a big fight after losing to Chad Dawson, and took a fight against a B-lister on ESPN2. He made $12K for that fight.

Yet you're saying ANY fighter under contract with the UFC should be paid no less than $15K, no matter who they're fighting?
5/20/13 2:42 PM
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Chris27
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CLINTK9 - in UFC, 10/10 ALL DAY. and thats for facebook prelims. if you make it to Fuel/FX prelims, then AT LEAST 15/15, but 20/20 sounds better. no one on a MAIN CARD of UFC should be getting less than 25/25!

The way they do it their place on a card has nothing to do with the money they make.

They can sign a TUF fighter for 8/8 and stick him in the co main event of a Fuel card and he is still gonna get 8/8k.

Fighters arent paid based on card placement.
5/20/13 3:17 PM
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BTT-RyannVonDoom
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Chris27 - 
CLINTK9 - in UFC, 10/10 ALL DAY. and thats for facebook prelims. if you make it to Fuel/FX prelims, then AT LEAST 15/15, but 20/20 sounds better. no one on a MAIN CARD of UFC should be getting less than 25/25!

The way they do it their place on a card has nothing to do with the money they make.

They can sign a TUF fighter for 8/8 and stick him in the co main event of a Fuel card and he is still gonna get 8/8k.

Fighters arent paid based on card placement.

Perhaps it's time they should? 

5/20/13 4:18 PM
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chew22
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I don't know - wherever you start you can't go down. I'd say 10/10 and then if mofos are still starving on 2 fights a year then bump it up.
5/20/13 4:25 PM
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Tomato Can - People need to let go of this "UFC is the big leagues" idea. In the NBA/NFL/MLB, if you make it there, it basically means you are better than any player who is not in that league. In the UFC this isn't the case. Plenty of guys with UFC contracts are not elite fighters by any stretch of the imagination, and are worse than many fighters signed to other promotions. It's just not an accurate analogy.

blame the ufc,they say there fighters r the best, then they should be paid as the best.

 

5/20/13 4:43 PM
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Daverr
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10-10 would e a decent step
5/20/13 4:53 PM
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Immaculata
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TITAN Combat/TITAN Grappling Open, Promoter
15/15.
5/20/13 4:54 PM
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Immaculata
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Edited: 05/20/13 4:55 PM
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TITAN Combat/TITAN Grappling Open, Promoter
Dbl.
5/20/13 5:52 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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New Leaf 1.0 - It should be the exact amount that both the fighter and the promotion agree to and you scumbags shouldn't interfere in other peoples business.

I think we know who's posting behind this SN..........

5/20/13 10:26 PM
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sweepnchoke
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Purse Amounts for entire HBO televised boxing event, like say a UFC on Fox.

Vanes Martirosyan - $177,500
Erislandy Lara - $202,500


Mikey Garcia $155,000
Jonathan Barros $25,000


Terence Crawford $6,500
Sidney De Siqueira $6,000


Jesus Magdaleno $6,000
Jose Silveira $7,000


Andrew Hernandez $2,500
Rudy Puga $3,500


Jesse Hart $4,000
Joshua Meyers $2,000


Anthony Flores $2,500
Luis Hernandez $2,000


Brett Rather $2,500
Avery Gibson $2,500

Eric Flores $2,500
Daniel Calzada $2,000


5/20/13 10:51 PM
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Tomato Can
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nobones -  At the UFC level I think $20,000 should be the minimum. After taxes that is only about $13,000. That needs to not only cover two months dedicated training but also training expenses, manager fees and additional travel costs for friends and family. In reality, to get to the UFC level can take several years of training and not making any money even losing money. So as soon as a guy makes it once he should be able to fly out more than a couple people should be able to fly out his parents and some loved ones and close friends that helped him get there and also put a little away for saving. Problem is fighters that settle for less. Lowers price for everyone. Phone Post

Let's not forget that if a fighter only banks like $30-40K in a year, they're going to get most (if not all) of that tax money back.
5/20/13 10:59 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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BTT-RyannVonDoom -
Chris27 - 
CLINTK9 - in UFC, 10/10 ALL DAY. and thats for facebook prelims. if you make it to Fuel/FX prelims, then AT LEAST 15/15, but 20/20 sounds better. no one on a MAIN CARD of UFC should be getting less than 25/25!

The way they do it their place on a card has nothing to do with the money they make.

They can sign a TUF fighter for 8/8 and stick him in the co main event of a Fuel card and he is still gonna get 8/8k.

Fighters arent paid based on card placement.

Perhaps it's time they should? 

I tend to agree with this Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 11:06 PM
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GunnarWreckedMyAssHAOLE
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I'd be in favor of a system in which a debut UFC fighter gets a minimum amount of $ and anyone who has kids & no other income than being a 'pro cage fighter' is blackballed, those dirtbags need to leave the sport 

5/20/13 11:43 PM
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Wicked smahtMF
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ill say 15/5 show/ win
5/20/13 11:53 PM
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Piyo
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0/0

Fuck anyone who says differently. You shouldn't be able to forbid a free adult from fighting for a small amount of money in exchange for a chance to build his name.
5/21/13 1:38 PM
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notsobigmike
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The main problem I have with most of the people arguing for a higher minimum is that their numbers have no basis in reality.

You can't just pull numbers out of the air and say that the minimum should be 10/10 or 20/20 because it sounds good.

Even a modest increase in minimum purse payments adds up when you apply it to all the fighters. In any business you need a plan when you're going to increase your expenses. That money has to come from somewhere.
5/21/13 2:54 PM
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Son of Neckbone
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notsobigmike - The main problem I have with most of the people arguing for a higher minimum is that their numbers have no basis in reality.

You can't just pull numbers out of the air and say that the minimum should be 10/10 or 20/20 because it sounds good.

Even a modest increase in minimum purse payments adds up when you apply it to all the fighters. In any business you need a plan when you're going to increase your expenses. That money has to come from somewhere.

The basis in reality is that at the organisation minimum, the fighters should be able to live on 3 fights per year comfortably.

At 10/10, even if he lost all three, that would put him at 30K/yr. That's a sad amount for a pro athlete, but livable. I imagine that's what your average garbage man is making per year.

Compare this to MLB, where the league minimum is more like a half million a year. Right now, at 4/4, if you fought 3 times that year and lost, you would be making 1/50th what the backup right fielder for the Cubs makes.
5/21/13 5:06 PM
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Piyo
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Son of Neckbone - 
notsobigmike - The main problem I have with most of the people arguing for a higher minimum is that their numbers have no basis in reality.

You can't just pull numbers out of the air and say that the minimum should be 10/10 or 20/20 because it sounds good.

Even a modest increase in minimum purse payments adds up when you apply it to all the fighters. In any business you need a plan when you're going to increase your expenses. That money has to come from somewhere.

The basis in reality is that at the organisation minimum, the fighters should be able to live on 3 fights per year comfortably.

At 10/10, even if he lost all three, that would put him at 30K/yr. That's a sad amount for a pro athlete, but livable. I imagine that's what your average garbage man is making per year.

Compare this to MLB, where the league minimum is more like a half million a year. Right now, at 4/4, if you fought 3 times that year and lost, you would be making 1/50th what the backup right fielder for the Cubs makes.

What a load of shit. 3 fights per year? Why 3? Another number pulled out of your ass.

Who cares about how it compares to a garbage man's salary? A garbage man's value is not necessarily lower than that of any given fighter.
5/21/13 5:20 PM
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If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much
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Funny how people that bitch about UFC fighters pay fail to state that these fighters AGREED to the contract and 6/6 or 8/8 is more then the low level boxers get on similar cards. Yet they love to point out what Floyd is making per fight. UFC is paying better then anyone in MMA right now and people are still bitching.
5/21/13 11:59 PM
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jmacdoug
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actually i change my vote to 20+10
5/22/13 12:27 AM
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Chris27
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Son of Neckbone - 
notsobigmike - The main problem I have with most of the people arguing for a higher minimum is that their numbers have no basis in reality.

You can't just pull numbers out of the air and say that the minimum should be 10/10 or 20/20 because it sounds good.

Even a modest increase in minimum purse payments adds up when you apply it to all the fighters. In any business you need a plan when you're going to increase your expenses. That money has to come from somewhere.

The basis in reality is that at the organisation minimum, the fighters should be able to live on 3 fights per year comfortably.

At 10/10, even if he lost all three, that would put him at 30K/yr. That's a sad amount for a pro athlete, but livable. I imagine that's what your average garbage man is making per year.

Compare this to MLB, where the league minimum is more like a half million a year. Right now, at 4/4, if you fought 3 times that year and lost, you would be making 1/50th what the backup right fielder for the Cubs makes.

Its also bullshit to compare it to other sports, you do realize the UFC doesnt make anywhere near what the NFL or MLB makes per year, right?

There tv deals for one year are worth many many times what the UFC as a company are worth.

NFL tv deal is like 9 billion. most estimate UFC being worth 1 bill, maybe 1.5 bill tops. So yeah, its easy to pull numbers out for minimum players salaries when you are making billions a year.

Not saying the minimum in the UFC shouldnt go up, it should but its retarded to compare it to the big three sports pay.
5/22/13 2:16 AM
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Attila
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20/20. I think there'd be a significant increase in the talent level if fighters started getting paid that much.
5/22/13 2:46 AM
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JOESONDO
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GregBell -
Mic the Tapper - It should be like any other job. At least minimum wage a year. Regardless of the number of fights you have. Like a retainer. Then performance/win bonuses. Phone Post 3.0

Ufc could do it ....IFL tried it with pretty deep pockets and failed
The IFL had insufficient income for their business model. They were expecting it to catch on but obviously it did not. I'm sure if they became the MMA mainstay they would have been able to sustain their fighter pay.

The problem is from all accounts the UFC seems to be putting a significantly smaller percentage of their total gross towards salaries when compared to other sports. when you factor in them taking a significant portion of the sponsorships and it makes it even harder for a fighter to get a decent payday.

It's at a point where lower level guys who have already made it to the UFC (which is supposed to be the big league) cannot get by on their salary. When you factor in training, guys like Cholish actually lost money. That doesn't exactly inspire new talent to get into the industry. You don't want this to end up like a tough man competition with garbage men fighting bouncers.

The UFC can take several routes: increased minimum pay, an annual salary, at least paying a training stipend so fighters don't have to split their meager earnings with their trainers. Phone Post 3.0
5/22/13 6:12 AM
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time traveling 12er
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First of all I think we need to stop comparing it to other sports. In most organized sports the athlete is expected to be away from home and work for their money 9+ months out of the year. A fighter can fight from home and train and live anywhere they want. They also have the time an opportunity to make money when they're out of training camp. We can't really compare a fighter to a team sport athlete who realistically has maybe 2-3 months off the whole year when they're not working directly for their money. Most top level athletes even spend that time on promotional tours so really the time is even less. People like to make the comparison and just pick and choose what they like to make their point and it's really not helpful and usually pretty stupid when you think about it.

Also we can't just make this a Zuffa thing. If we say only Zuffa has to pay the minimum then we're pretty much admitting that Bellator is just a lower tier org with b-list fighters. All the big orgs with big money backing them need to make sure fighters get paid. Any org with a tv contract should be expected to hold to the minimum. Obviously small regional shows without tv contracts should be on a different scale.

What's the point of organizing if it's just to make Zuffa pay out while everyone else not there gets hosed. If Zuffa is forced to pay more, they'll cut fighters to make the money work, and those cut fighters will end up not being able to feed their children off of the meager money from orgs that don't hold to the minimum. If that's the case then what did unionizing really do but screw over the lower level guys from getting more exposure on a larger stage? It only helps the guys that are good enough to deserve the new minimum and hoses the guys that fall below.

Making most of the money guaranteed doesn't sound like a great idea. I prefer a merit based system. Yeah it sucks when a fighter loses and ends up getting only half his money. But really that's a cup half empty approach. It's really a win bonus for succeeding. I don't get the logic that performance based bonuses somehow hurt the fighter, and that fighters who have already earned their money would fight better then those who have not. Stress hurts them? If that amount of stress is enough to mess you up, MMA might not be the right career for you. Even if we do that, winning always increases how much you make so there will ALWAYS be the specter of lost money hanging over fighters making them psychologically damaged. Unless we go with some socialist pay system where every fighter on every level gets paid the same exact amount regardless of talent, fame, or record. Then truly the weight of the performance bonus would be 100% off the fighters shoulders and all that would be left in the octagon would be budo.

10k seems the most reasonable. But at the same time it's not enough to live off of. Well unless you consider all the other avenues to make money, like the bonuses and having the time and fame to make money other ways. That's 60k if you win your three fights, not even mentioning that usually winning ups your pay anyways.

Part of the issue here might be the perception of what a losing fighter deserves, since they're really the ones that get hit the hardest. (get it? hit the hardest?) Some say that they don't deserve more because they've "failed" at their jobs. But this it's like mcDonalds and you dropped a meat patty on the ground. Stepping in to the octagon is in itself a victory. Even if you lose your fight you did your job. You can't really compare this to say a real estate agent that fails to sell a house. Regardless of the fight outcome, you did your job and generated entertainment for your company to sell advertising on. On the business side of things, the only way you really lose is by putting on a boring fight that no one wants to see. But I guess that's where the performance bonuses come in, in an attempt to make sure the money goes where it needs to go. But is that fair?

Anyways, I don't think I have the energy to collect the rest of my thoughts.

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