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BJJGround Forum >> KEITH OWEN just...


10/16/13 7:09 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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pahulkster - 
sunderground - Keith Owen is awful and it makes me wonder what kind of standards Pedro Sauer holds to as well.

Now we're just getting insane. Even thinking about questioning someone like Pedro Sauer based on Ari freaking Bolden is just absurd. Who is next? Rickson and Helio for promoting Pedro Sauer?

I know it sounds crazy to question Pedro, but that's how the pedigree of pedagogy works.  

(Alliteration of the day, IMHO)

Unless Pedro cuts away the branches that bear no fruit, like Keith Owen, his vine will slowly die.  

(Allegory of the day, IMHO)

10/17/13 12:36 AM
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Ridgeback
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Pedro's ranking method was based on time in class.  You come to enough classes and show reasonable skill and you get promoted.  So some of his black belts are very good and some are fairly mediocre.  It really hasn't been that different in the history of BJJ.  Helio has no doubt given black belts to students in Brazil that are unexceptional.  

The larger issue is working with a fraudster like Ari in the first place.  He posed as something he was not, which points to a problematic character.  The question is why even take on a guy like that as a student.  Oh yeah, the answer is money.   

10/17/13 12:06 PM
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kying418
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Edited: 10/17/13 12:06 PM
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I agree to a large extent that people should be awarded based on the amount of hours they spend on the mat.

I think it's awesome that there is a sliding scale for promotions based on many factors with each individual. Like BJ Penn said in an interview- "Is the student working to be the best black belt they can personally be?"

However, my opinion is completely different for people that do not spend the time training....they should not be promoted- I don't care how many students, youtube viewers, etc they have.

10/17/13 4:28 PM
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shoudawhouda
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In Phone Post
10/17/13 9:40 PM
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FJJ828
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Interesting. I always had a lot of respect for Sauer coming up through the ranks. The whole Owen thing has me perplexed.

I was in Mobile, AL a few months ago and was hoping to stop in and train at a local PS Affiliate but the guys never responded to my calls or e-mails. A little disappointing as my friend (a BJJ Brown from SBGi) and I were hoping to get some mat time and meet some local BJJ guys.

10/18/13 2:10 AM
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shen
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Edited: 10/18/13 2:29 AM
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I don't think it matters how good/skilled/cool an instructor is, if that instructor has 100 affiliates.

Realistically, how much time could such an instructor possibly spend with each of their affiliates...? At that point it's not REALLY about having a true instructor/student relationship in the traditional sense. It's more paying to fly a recognizable flag, having someone to promote you, etc. --It's much more of a business arrangement.

I know that suits some people fine, but if you want hands-on "mat time" with a teacher, you don't pick someone with thousands of students. When you train day-in day-out with someone for years and years, they really get to know how you play, your strengths, weakness and foibles. You simply aren't going to get that kind of attention from a seminar a couple times a year.
10/18/13 6:22 AM
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NicolasExitBJJ
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Edited: 10/18/13 6:25 AM
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who gives a shit, it only matters if you care about belts... I know a bunch of guys that have gotten promoted quicker than me because they're at other clubs/affiliations and whom I'd probably beat most times we roll... and on the other hand I know a bunch of ridiculously talented young guys with lower rank than me who often kick my ass. but it doesn't matter in the end as I'm doing this for MYSELF, not to feel good about a certain colour of belt. I wanna feel good about myself knowing that I gave my all in training and am performing to the best of my abilities. martial arts is a personal journey.
10/18/13 6:27 AM
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NicolasExitBJJ
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shen - 
I don't think it matters how good/skilled/cool an instructor is, if that instructor has 100 affiliates.

Realistically, how much time could such an instructor possibly spend with each of their affiliates...? At that point it's not REALLY about having a true instructor/student relationship in the traditional sense. It's more paying to fly a recognizable flag, having someone to promote you, etc. --It's much more of a business arrangement.

I know that suits some people fine, but if you want hands-on "mat time" with a teacher, you don't pick someone with thousands of students. When you train day-in day-out with someone for years and years, they really get to know how you play, your strengths, weakness and foibles. You simply aren't going to get that kind of attention from a seminar a couple times a year.

yeah I don't get that either, I think it's wanting to be part of something for a great part... some people really want to be in the cool club and rep a certain well known team... while they only see the head honcho for 2 days a year lol
10/18/13 9:56 AM
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checkuroil - It's been like six months. A stripe would be fairish. Phone Post 3.0

yes it would if he trained with keith everyday,but how does that happened?
10/21/13 11:18 AM
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BjjGirevik
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Pedro Sauer does testing for each belt level. He requires a minimum of 100 hours between white and blue and a minimum 400 hours between each belt thereafter. His white to blue curriculum is 88 techniques, blue to purple is 88 techniques, and then brown belt is demonstrations of various techniques from all positions. The black belt test is demonstration of all the Gracie self defense techniques. I’ve seen Professor Sauer fail students that were not ready. Unlike some instructors you could have a room full of medals, but if you don’t know the self defense techniques you’re not getting a black belt from him. I’m a brown under Professor Sauer and I’ve been training with him since 2002.
10/21/13 11:47 AM
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Koga
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Fair enough, but Ari lives on Vancouver Island (in the same small city as bona fide bjj black belt), are you saying he has met Prof Sauer's criteria?
10/21/13 12:20 PM
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yusul
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to be fair, he said 100 minimum. so a bj penn could have done it or another gifted athlete, but a normal person might take longer.
10/21/13 2:01 PM
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BJJER
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BjjGirevik - Pedro Sauer does testing for each belt level. He requires a minimum of 100 hours between white and blue and a minimum 400 hours between each belt thereafter. His white to blue curriculum is 88 techniques, blue to purple is 88 techniques, and then brown belt is demonstrations of various techniques from all positions. The black belt test is demonstration of all the Gracie self defense techniques. I’ve seen Professor Sauer fail students that were not ready. Unlike some instructors you could have a room full of medals, but if you don’t know the self defense techniques you’re not getting a black belt from him. I’m a brown under Professor Sauer and I’ve been training with him since 2002.

Are you not embaressed that Keith Owen, a man Pedro endorsed has given Ari a brown belt in less than half the time it's taken YOU to get it?

I know I would be.
10/21/13 3:00 PM
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shen
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Edited: 10/21/13 3:07 PM
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BjjGirevik,

Just out of curiosity, how often do get to be on the mat with Pedro Sauer...? I imagine he is traveling constantly. Do you train at his school or are you an affiliate?

Thank you.
10/21/13 3:01 PM
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Aaronrodgers=GOAT
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Sub Phone Post
10/21/13 3:57 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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Brown belt test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99_6dyso3k

I have to admit that dragon and music at the beginning scared me a little.
10/21/13 3:59 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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The best part of that video is at 1:13. KO is like "What have I done?"
10/22/13 4:29 AM
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AZ-Grappler
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I am pretty sure Master Pedro Sauer requires all Brown Belt promotions to go through him.

So a regular Black Belt in Pedro Sauers association can not promote to Brown...

If Keith promoted to Brown by himself he broke the rules.
10/22/13 2:14 PM
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BjjGirevik
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I train out of the Baltimore Martial Arts Academy. We are a Pedro Sauer affiliate and also a Renato Taveres affiliate. I was taking classes with Professor Sauer once a week while he was teaching at Jeff Gordons in Gaithersburg, and doing several of his full weekend seminars every year, on top of training at BMAA 2x a week. We recently had Denilson Pimenta at our school running classes for a month. Professor Sauer, Professor Taveres, and Italo Lins were also at our school in the past few months for seminars. I don't know anything about Ari and his promotion through Keith Owen, so I can't intelligently comment on it. As a single father with three jobs I don't really pay attention to who's promoting who, I just focus on my own training. Sorry I can't give more insight than that.
10/22/13 2:21 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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funny, you don't sound Jamaican.

10/23/13 9:03 AM
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BjjGirevik
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Baltimore Maryland & Gaithersburg Maryland.
10/26/13 9:31 AM
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Ray Cappa
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Ridgeback -

Ari is like the Rosa Parks of BJJ if Rosa Parks had actually been a white woman that paid the white bus driver to kick a black person out of a full bus so she could have a seat.

LOL!!! Phone Post 3.0
10/26/13 9:32 AM
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Ray Cappa
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DonMega - This post is about a teacher who only sees money and about a guy who in reallity is mediocre blue belt at best and what money can do to the sport.

First of great post Shen!

I have also been a PROUD brown belt for 25 months but under Rey Diogo same as professional under is underRelson and i also dont have any stripes on my brown belt. Old school you know!

I have produced some of the top grapplers in europe.
I have had some major surgeries and still continue to teach while most of the people would quit long time agoo.

I have had my school for 10 years and have only 1 brown and 5 purple belts....Most of these guys have won all the major competitions in our country which is one of the best nations in BJJ in Europe if not the best......

And now we have this guy Keith Owen promoting Ari ,beginner blue belt to 1 st stripe brown belt. And also promoting 9 purple belts.



Keith and Ari if you are reading this -YOU HAVE NO MORAL.YOU ARE AN EMBARESSMENT TO THE SPORT!YOUR NAMES ARE DONE IN BJJ COMMUNITY.

Are you in Sweden? Phone Post 3.0
10/26/13 9:49 AM
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sunderground - 
shen - 
BjjGirevik,

Just out of curiosity, how often do get to be on the mat with Pedro Sauer...? I imagine he is traveling constantly. Do you train at his school or are you an affiliate?

Thank you.

A rhetorical post shen. And don't expect a fast reply. And you are nicer guy than me in the delivery.

how much time does any affiliate spend with the head instructor? I seen affiliates get promoted fasters then home grown students.
10/26/13 2:26 PM
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Forrest Gimp
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Seems like yesterday I posted in a thread where he got purple belt. He's blazing through the ranks.

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