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BJJGround Forum >> katas in BJJ?


10/24/13 2:42 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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Alex17 - Nic Gregoriades from the Jiu Jitsu Brotherhood sometimes teach "kata".
An example at the end of this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t71WPvreci0

that is not kata or djuru or form. flow/chain rolling or drilling uses movement and light-moderate resistance movement and is or can improvisational. kata is fixed sequence and may not even be a realistic movement or technique
10/25/13 1:23 AM
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markus
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siouxNYC - anyone heard of this? the school is reputable and the instructor (and his instructor) are old school BJJ guys.

yes. but its more like an aerobic workout. ricksons video choke has some footage of it.

examples are stand up and sit down in base - from a bear crawl postition, your hip sits through, and end up in a crab position- (do this to all 4 corners- your shoulders will burn) - shrimp across the mat. - do 10 oupas(5 to each side) that hindu pushup - crunches, with arms reaching up and pulling down (mimics the gi choke) - les up in the air, and lift the hips up (mimics the triangle). leap frog ( on the third one, leg swings like doing armbar-hands are on the mat, and lower yourself to a sitting position)

those types of drills are bjj katas.
10/25/13 1:46 AM
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Hywel Teague
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Some people in this thread seem confused as to what katas really are

Kata is not drilling. Not solo drills. Not even lock flows, really.

Kata is a prescribed and pre-rehearsed sequence of techniques done alone or with a partner. It's important to note both of those qualities - someone tells you exactly what and how to do it, and you train with the intention of becoming better at the sequence.

That's kata's problem. People train to become better at kata thinking there is a crossover to application in real fighting. But they don't train to get better at fighting, only the choreographed set piece. Phone Post 3.0
10/25/13 10:53 AM
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mmanthebay
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Hywel Teague - Some people in this thread seem confused as to what katas really are

Kata is not drilling. Not solo drills. Not even lock flows, really.

Kata is a prescribed and pre-rehearsed sequence of techniques done alone or with a partner. It's important to note both of those qualities - someone tells you exactly what and how to do it, and you train with the intention of becoming better at the sequence.

That's kata's problem. People train to become better at kata thinking there is a crossover to application in real fighting. But they don't train to get better at fighting, only the choreographed set piece. Phone Post 3.0
Exactly...

My instructor has a judo background and most likely used katas to help develop his jiujitsu as he went up the ranks. Our academy curriculum has 3 katas for white belts,and 3 for blue belts. The katas are based on the most common grappling scenarios one will encounter. They are very efficient and apply well to BJJ (sport), MMA, and self defense. I believe they are important for developing good grappling habits. Furthermore, they aid in helping the grappler become more systematic (algorithmic) vs. Being limited to opportunities. Phone Post
10/25/13 2:45 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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mmanthebay - 
Hywel Teague - Some people in this thread seem confused as to what katas really are

Kata is not drilling. Not solo drills. Not even lock flows, really.

Kata is a prescribed and pre-rehearsed sequence of techniques done alone or with a partner. It's important to note both of those qualities - someone tells you exactly what and how to do it, and you train with the intention of becoming better at the sequence.

That's kata's problem. People train to become better at kata thinking there is a crossover to application in real fighting. But they don't train to get better at fighting, only the choreographed set piece. Phone Post 3.0
Exactly...

My instructor has a judo background and most likely used katas to help develop his jiujitsu as he went up the ranks. Our academy curriculum has 3 katas for white belts,and 3 for blue belts. The katas are based on the most common grappling scenarios one will encounter. They are very efficient and apply well to BJJ (sport), MMA, and self defense. I believe they are important for developing good grappling habits. Furthermore, they aid in helping the grappler become more systematic (algorithmic) vs. Being limited to opportunities. Phone Post

I'm only on my 1st cup of morning coffee but.....


Hywel seems to state that katas suck for anything other than getting better at kata. I mostly agree. As far as you academy having katas.....anything you get from kata would be better served by drilling. Drilling involves movement and resistance and allows for repetitions and exploration of techniques whereby one can develop variations ansd trasitions to alternative techniques, movements or positions. .
10/25/13 2:49 PM
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siouxNYC
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Sgt. Slaphead - 
mmanthebay - 
Hywel Teague - Some people in this thread seem confused as to what katas really are

Kata is not drilling. Not solo drills. Not even lock flows, really.

Kata is a prescribed and pre-rehearsed sequence of techniques done alone or with a partner. It's important to note both of those qualities - someone tells you exactly what and how to do it, and you train with the intention of becoming better at the sequence.

That's kata's problem. People train to become better at kata thinking there is a crossover to application in real fighting. But they don't train to get better at fighting, only the choreographed set piece. Phone Post 3.0
Exactly...

My instructor has a judo background and most likely used katas to help develop his jiujitsu as he went up the ranks. Our academy curriculum has 3 katas for white belts,and 3 for blue belts. The katas are based on the most common grappling scenarios one will encounter. They are very efficient and apply well to BJJ (sport), MMA, and self defense. I believe they are important for developing good grappling habits. Furthermore, they aid in helping the grappler become more systematic (algorithmic) vs. Being limited to opportunities. Phone Post

I'm only on my 1st cup of morning coffee but.....


Hywel seems to state that katas suck for anything other than getting better at kata. I mostly agree. As far as you academy having katas.....anything you get from kata would be better served by drilling. Drilling involves movement and resistance and allows for repetitions and exploration of techniques whereby one can develop variations ansd trasitions to alternative techniques, movements or positions. .

I actually have no problem with the kata stuff, especially given that they drill like motherfuckers there too.
10/25/13 2:49 PM
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Hywel Teague
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While I appreciate you quoting me above, please understand I am in no way a supporter of kata as a viable training method. Thanks Phone Post 3.0
10/25/13 5:40 PM
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mmanthebay
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Hywel Teague - While I appreciate you quoting me above, please understand I am in no way a supporter of kata as a viable training method. Thanks Phone Post 3.0
I quoted you based on your definition of a Kata. I agree with that.

The Katas we do aren't a replacement for drilling or rolling. They're mostly used as an exercise for white belts and beginner blue belts. A sequence of movements that you should be able to do at that level. It's also stuff we drill. It's an easy way for the instructor to say do "WXY, and finish with Z" and program it so lower belts do it all the time. I believe a good tool to train situational awareness. Phone Post
10/27/13 7:56 PM
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m.g
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Hywel Teague,

Actually you're definition of Kata isn't accurate. Kata is actually a very fluid and dynamic concept. A kata is NOT limited to a sequence of techniques. A Kata can be just a single technique or a collection of single techniques.

Furthermore in the Japanese culture, Katas are used for just about anything; from cooking to other basic activities of life. Katas are essentially learning tools BUT they can also be a means of practicing a skill. Generally speaking, Katas are models, paradigms and illustrations. They are suppose to illustrate something of a the skill so that it may be observed and thus learned. They generally illustrate a principle or tactic in action.

The thing about Katas is most people do them whether they realize it or not. When a teacher demonstrates a technique or skill he or she is actually doing a kata. When you learn a technique you are actually learning a kata.
10/28/13 6:51 AM
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Hywel Teague
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Katas are ritualised versions of real techniques. But you're wrong that we're all doing katas. Phone Post 3.0
10/29/13 5:35 PM
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m.g
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HT,

No I am not. You are doing a kata when you learn a given technique and practice it the way you've learned it. You are also doing a kata when you demonstrate a technique.

Although katas are sometimes ritualize they DO NOT have to be. In other words, the ritualization of a kata is NOT what makes it a kata. A kata is simply a model, illustration, demonstration of a given skill or technique.
10/29/13 8:08 PM
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mmanthebay
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m.g - HT,

No I am not. You are doing a kata when you learn a given technique and practice it the way you've learned it. You are also doing a kata when you demonstrate a technique.

Although katas are sometimes ritualize they DO NOT have to be. In other words, the ritualization of a kata is NOT what makes it a kata. A kata is simply a model, illustration, demonstration of a given skill or technique.
+1 Phone Post

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