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4/4/14 1:22 AM
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Underground Blog
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MixedMartialArts.com
 

For some time, UFC women's bantamweight champion Ronda Rousey has held that her contract with the management group Fight Tribe is not valid. Representatives of both sides met before California State Athletic Commission director Andy Foster on Friday.

Under California Business and Professions Code §18640, the CSAC has the “sole direction, management, control of and jurisdiction” of fighter management contract disputes in MMA and boxing in California.

Foster, assisted by two California deputy attorney generals, received briefs from both sides, and heard witnesses.

Today he handed down his decision.

Foster ruled that Rousey is free of the mixed martial arts portion of her contract. However, he did not rule on the commercial aspect of the contract, which he instead deferred to the Superior Court of California.

According to Sherdogthe contract was dated May 15, 2012, and signed January 29, 2013. It granted her manager 10 percent of Rousey’s income generated from fighting, modeling, acting and other commercial activities.

“The agreement is hereby found to be invalid and unenforceable as it relates to Rousey’s professional fighting services and Harvey’s professional fighting management services, only; the Commission makes no findings as to the other parts of the agreement that are not directly relating to MMA fighting and defers these matters to the California Superior Court. Rousey and Harvey are released from their fighter-manager agreement dated May 15, 2012, and the California State Athletic Commission orders any and all purses, which may have been partially or wholly withheld to be released to Rousey.”

“Harvey asserts that since the contract was drafted as a talent contract and not a fighter-manager contract, he did not meet the definition of a manager as set forth in Business and Professions Code section 18628/ Specifically, the contract did not call for more than a 10-percent commission and related mostly to commercial activities and only incidentally to fighting activities. Further, Harvey asserts that following Rousey’s entering into a contract with the UFC, Harvey no longer procured, arranged or directed Rousey’s fights, as these duties were taken over by the UFC. Hence, Harvey no longer acted as Rousey’s manager after the UFC.”

“From the beginning of their relationship, the arbitrator finds that Harvey by his own admissions and actions undertook by agreement to represent the interests of Rousey in advancing and promoting her MMA fighting career. Further, Harvey was involved in Rousey’s training and development, which he paid for. He directed or controlled Rousey’s MMA activities in one way or another. This is true even after Rousey signed her UFC contract. Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”

Rousey’s lawyer, Steven Bash of Bash and Polyachenko, P.C., previously told Sherdog that he believed the parts of the contract relating to income generated from modeling, acting and other commercial activities would be found by the courts to be invalid.

In a message to Sherdog, another of Rousey's attorneys declined to specify the nature of the dispute.

"Ronda regrets that things went down this road, but she truly felt that she had no choice based on the events of the past year," he said. "While the decision by the commission to invalidate the contract was based on FTM/Harvey’s failure to comply with CSAC Rules, the original reasons that she sought to distance herself from Darin were discussed in some detail in the arbitration. We agree with the arbitrator’s decision to keep those details out of the opinion and to focus on the law.

“With most fighters, this would be the end of the story. However, because of Ronda’s unprecedented popularity outside the cage, certain provisions in the contract relating to non-fight earnings are of unusual importance. Going forward, we feel strongly that since Darin is no longer going to be her manager, the entire purported agreement should be deemed invalid, since the overall purpose of the contract has been frustrated. However, since such a ruling would be beyond the scope of the CSAC arbitration, we anticipate having to establish that in private arbitration and Superior Court.”

Read entire article...


4/4/14 1:28 AM
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theFLYnTACO
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Lost me at "FTM". Then had to go to after dark to try and find a "face to muff" thread...
4/4/14 1:36 AM
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Letibleu
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in...

4/4/14 1:39 AM
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ErikMagraken
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Good post, is there a link to the full CSAC decision?

4/4/14 1:40 AM
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Team GDP
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i don't know who posted this blog entry or edited it, but you left out several key points. jesus christ

4/4/14 4:10 AM
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GladiatorGannon
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l8r
4/4/14 4:14 AM
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Dead President
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What a relief! Phone Post 3.0
4/4/14 4:59 AM
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CindyO
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Dead President - What a relief! Phone Post 3.0

Were you stressed out about Ronda's contract?

 

Cindy

4/4/14 5:26 AM
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MagSlim
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That ruling is retarded. How could the following possibly be true?

"Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”"

So, in other words, no UFC fighters can have managers once they're signed to the UFC?

No UFC fighters' managers ever turn down fights on behalf of their client? No managers ever call Joe Silva and request fights? No managers ever ask for the UFC time off to develop their fighter? They don't ask for fights in certain cities, or to not travel to Europe or Asia for fighters that don't like that sort of thing?

What the fuck world does Andy Foster live in?
4/4/14 5:30 AM
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Matt Phillips
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CindyO - 
Dead President - What a relief! Phone Post 3.0

Were you stressed out about Ronda's contract?

 

Cindy


Between Ronda's contract and Flight 370, I dont know how I sleep at night.

4/4/14 5:42 AM
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Chromium
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MagSlim - That ruling is retarded. How could the following possibly be true?

"Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”"

So, in other words, no UFC fighters can have managers once they're signed to the UFC?

No UFC fighters' managers ever turn down fights on behalf of their client? No managers ever call Joe Silva and request fights? No managers ever ask for the UFC time off to develop their fighter? They don't ask for fights in certain cities, or to not travel to Europe or Asia for fighters that don't like that sort of thing?

What the fuck world does Andy Foster live in?

That is absolutely not what the ruling said. Re-read it; it was clearly and specifically referring to Ronda Rousey, not all UFC fighters.

In Ronda's case, which of her UFC fights were procured by her manager? The answer is none. She was immediately put in a title fight and then Sean Shelby and Dana White decided every opponent henceforth. Dana White also dealt with Ronda Rousey either directly or through the William Morris agency which manages her Hollywood career and promotion.

4/4/14 6:29 AM
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ShowtimeWreckedMyLeever
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Can someone tldr this for me? I'm illiterate when it comes to this stuff, read it twice and I don't think I understand how this can happen Phone Post 3.0
4/4/14 6:31 AM
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Arlovskis Chin
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ShowtimeWreckedMyLeever - Can someone tldr this for me? I'm illiterate when it comes to this stuff, read it twice and I don't think I understand how this can happen Phone Post 3.0
This. Can anyone give a simplified frat version? Phone Post 3.0
4/4/14 6:45 AM
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TheCrow13
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"UFC women's bantamweight champion Ronda Rousey held that her contract with the management group Fight Tribe is invalid. "

I know you guys don't have a law background, but this sentence is all messed up.

Tl;dr version:
Contracts have to be in a certain format. Apparently this was a talent contract rather then an athlete contract. Therefore the commission ruled it was void on the subject of fighting.

Long story short, none if this matters because there is millions of dollars on the line and the manager will take this finding to actual court. Phone Post 3.0
4/4/14 6:51 AM
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quality
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Good another UFC fighter getting out of their contractual obligations because they started getting a fatter paycheck.
4/4/14 6:55 AM
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TheCrow13
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quality - Good another UFC fighter getting out of their contractual obligations because they started getting a fatter paycheck.
This is actually scary.

Since they have vague details, I really can't tell what was invalid. This is people's livelihoods on the line. The manager finds the fighter, invests in them and grows with them, and they make it big and drop them.

Be loyal and respectful to the people who helped you along the way. If you feel 10% is too much, renegotiate. I'd rather have 5% then 0%. Or liquidates damages provision. Phone Post 3.0
4/4/14 7:24 AM
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Internettufguy
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Isn't Ronda a great role model? Phone Post 3.0
4/4/14 7:25 AM
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MagSlim
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Chromium - 
MagSlim - That ruling is retarded. How could the following possibly be true?

"Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”"

So, in other words, no UFC fighters can have managers once they're signed to the UFC?

No UFC fighters' managers ever turn down fights on behalf of their client? No managers ever call Joe Silva and request fights? No managers ever ask for the UFC time off to develop their fighter? They don't ask for fights in certain cities, or to not travel to Europe or Asia for fighters that don't like that sort of thing?

What the fuck world does Andy Foster live in?

That is absolutely not what the ruling said. Re-read it; it was clearly and specifically referring to Ronda Rousey, not all UFC fighters.

In Ronda's case, which of her UFC fights were procured by her manager? The answer is none. She was immediately put in a title fight and then Sean Shelby and Dana White decided every opponent henceforth. Dana White also dealt with Ronda Rousey either directly or through the William Morris agency which manages her Hollywood career and promotion.


Unless you're Ronda or work for William Morris, how do you have any idea who set up what fights?

How would you know if Dana or Shelby ever talked to Harvey? Or whether Harvey talked to Rousey?

If Harvey was still doing some kind of managing for Rousey, how could you know whether he talked to her about a fight or not?

If Harvey talks to Ronda about who she should fight, then Ronda talks to Dana or Shelby, isn't he still advising her about fights? You act like Ronda has had no choice in any of her opponents. She and her mangers (whoever you might think that is) had no choice and were 100% dictated to -- as the fucking champion of a division and a PPV star. Get real.

If Dana stops calling a manager, and a fighter stops calling them, and her other agent doesn't call them, but they have a contract that says they get paid -- guess what....they get paid.

I can't believe the NSAC has the final say over any legal contract dispute. And it's not like they have any conflict of interest at all, with the UFC being the main revenue source and this being their star.
4/4/14 9:17 AM
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Chromium
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Edited: 04/04/14 9:20 AM
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MagSlim - 
Chromium - 
MagSlim - That ruling is retarded. How could the following possibly be true?

"Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”"

So, in other words, no UFC fighters can have managers once they're signed to the UFC?

No UFC fighters' managers ever turn down fights on behalf of their client? No managers ever call Joe Silva and request fights? No managers ever ask for the UFC time off to develop their fighter? They don't ask for fights in certain cities, or to not travel to Europe or Asia for fighters that don't like that sort of thing?

What the fuck world does Andy Foster live in?

That is absolutely not what the ruling said. Re-read it; it was clearly and specifically referring to Ronda Rousey, not all UFC fighters.

In Ronda's case, which of her UFC fights were procured by her manager? The answer is none. She was immediately put in a title fight and then Sean Shelby and Dana White decided every opponent henceforth. Dana White also dealt with Ronda Rousey either directly or through the William Morris agency which manages her Hollywood career and promotion.


Unless you're Ronda or work for William Morris, how do you have any idea who set up what fights?

How would you know if Dana or Shelby ever talked to Harvey? Or whether Harvey talked to Rousey?

If Harvey was still doing some kind of managing for Rousey, how could you know whether he talked to her about a fight or not?

If Harvey talks to Ronda about who she should fight, then Ronda talks to Dana or Shelby, isn't he still advising her about fights? You act like Ronda has had no choice in any of her opponents. She and her mangers (whoever you might think that is) had no choice and were 100% dictated to -- as the fucking champion of a division and a PPV star. Get real.

If Dana stops calling a manager, and a fighter stops calling them, and her other agent doesn't call them, but they have a contract that says they get paid -- guess what....they get paid.

I can't believe the NSAC has the final say over any legal contract dispute. And it's not like they have any conflict of interest at all, with the UFC being the main revenue source and this being their star.

 

Dude, use fucking logic. She was the Champion. It is pretty fucking obvious she had no veto in the challengers.

 

And William Morris is to Fight Tribe Management as the UFC is to Wild Bill's Fight Nights, as far as management agencies goes, and it's pretty much public record that they were in control. And what does Harvey talking or not talking to Dana contradict anything I said? Now to be certain, it's really fucking unlikely that Harvey had any meaningful say about who Ronda's challengers were, but all of those things are actually beside the point and you've now managed to doubly missed the point.

What I was addressing is you somehow inferring a blanket interpretation that the findings of the arbitrator equal were equivalent to the threshold required for a judge to set legal precedent. The CSAC arbitrator (yes CSAC not NSAC as both Ronda and her former management reside in California but that's still beside the point) made a finding based on the facts available that the preponderance of evidence pointed towards Harvey being one of Ronda's managers still, but in not the person in charge of procuring her fights. This is not at all an unreasonable conclusion based on the entire history of Zuffa-owned UFC (and even before that to be frank) and how championship matches tend to be made. Ronda's side only had to reach a preponderance of evidence on her three match-ups which is nothing. How you reached the conclusion you did is beyond me but I don't think you get what arbitration is or what it does (and does not) affect. It is not anything like a criminal trial or even a lawsuit brought to civil court. Among other things, the reason the CSAC have the final say (on the MMA part) is because both sides agreed to it because please look up the definition of arbitrator.

4/4/14 10:24 AM
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CarlClendenin
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In before CindyO post.
4/4/14 10:30 AM
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Phil999
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CarlClendenin - In before CindyO post.

Too late.
4/4/14 10:44 AM
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove
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Chromium - 
MagSlim - 
Chromium - 
MagSlim - That ruling is retarded. How could the following possibly be true?

"Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”"

So, in other words, no UFC fighters can have managers once they're signed to the UFC?

No UFC fighters' managers ever turn down fights on behalf of their client? No managers ever call Joe Silva and request fights? No managers ever ask for the UFC time off to develop their fighter? They don't ask for fights in certain cities, or to not travel to Europe or Asia for fighters that don't like that sort of thing?

What the fuck world does Andy Foster live in?

That is absolutely not what the ruling said. Re-read it; it was clearly and specifically referring to Ronda Rousey, not all UFC fighters.

In Ronda's case, which of her UFC fights were procured by her manager? The answer is none. She was immediately put in a title fight and then Sean Shelby and Dana White decided every opponent henceforth. Dana White also dealt with Ronda Rousey either directly or through the William Morris agency which manages her Hollywood career and promotion.


Unless you're Ronda or work for William Morris, how do you have any idea who set up what fights?

How would you know if Dana or Shelby ever talked to Harvey? Or whether Harvey talked to Rousey?

If Harvey was still doing some kind of managing for Rousey, how could you know whether he talked to her about a fight or not?

If Harvey talks to Ronda about who she should fight, then Ronda talks to Dana or Shelby, isn't he still advising her about fights? You act like Ronda has had no choice in any of her opponents. She and her mangers (whoever you might think that is) had no choice and were 100% dictated to -- as the fucking champion of a division and a PPV star. Get real.

If Dana stops calling a manager, and a fighter stops calling them, and her other agent doesn't call them, but they have a contract that says they get paid -- guess what....they get paid.

I can't believe the NSAC has the final say over any legal contract dispute. And it's not like they have any conflict of interest at all, with the UFC being the main revenue source and this being their star.

 

Dude, use fucking logic. She was the Champion. It is pretty fucking obvious she had no veto in the challengers.

 

And William Morris is to Fight Tribe Management as the UFC is to Wild Bill's Fight Nights, as far as management agencies goes, and it's pretty much public record that they were in control. And what does Harvey talking or not talking to Dana contradict anything I said? Now to be certain, it's really fucking unlikely that Harvey had any meaningful say about who Ronda's challengers were, but all of those things are actually beside the point and you've now managed to doubly missed the point.

What I was addressing is you somehow inferring a blanket interpretation that the findings of the arbitrator equal were equivalent to the threshold required for a judge to set legal precedent. The CSAC arbitrator (yes CSAC not NSAC as both Ronda and her former management reside in California but that's still beside the point) made a finding based on the facts available that the preponderance of evidence pointed towards Harvey being one of Ronda's managers still, but in not the person in charge of procuring her fights. This is not at all an unreasonable conclusion based on the entire history of Zuffa-owned UFC (and even before that to be frank) and how championship matches tend to be made. Ronda's side only had to reach a preponderance of evidence on her three match-ups which is nothing. How you reached the conclusion you did is beyond me but I don't think you get what arbitration is or what it does (and does not) affect. It is not anything like a criminal trial or even a lawsuit brought to civil court. Among other things, the reason the CSAC have the final say (on the MMA part) is because both sides agreed to it because please look up the definition of arbitrator.


So once a fighter becomes champion, they no longer have to pay their manager, whether under contract or not because the manager is no longer procuring fights for them? I understand the "you'll fight who's next as champ" but it's scary that after you win the title you only deal with Dana/UFC and your manager no longer has any say in a matter.
4/4/14 10:54 AM
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mongo54
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MagSlim - 
Chromium - 
MagSlim - That ruling is retarded. How could the following possibly be true?

"Following the UFC contract, Harvey’s manager responsibilities for procuring and arranging fights were eliminated, however, he continued managing Rousey by being intimately involved in her MMA activities by promoting her fighting career and by acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in paid sponsorships for her, which were generated from Rousey’s fighting success. The arbitrator finds that Harvey was Rousey’s manager.”"

So, in other words, no UFC fighters can have managers once they're signed to the UFC?

No UFC fighters' managers ever turn down fights on behalf of their client? No managers ever call Joe Silva and request fights? No managers ever ask for the UFC time off to develop their fighter? They don't ask for fights in certain cities, or to not travel to Europe or Asia for fighters that don't like that sort of thing?

What the fuck world does Andy Foster live in?

That is absolutely not what the ruling said. Re-read it; it was clearly and specifically referring to Ronda Rousey, not all UFC fighters.

In Ronda's case, which of her UFC fights were procured by her manager? The answer is none. She was immediately put in a title fight and then Sean Shelby and Dana White decided every opponent henceforth. Dana White also dealt with Ronda Rousey either directly or through the William Morris agency which manages her Hollywood career and promotion.


Unless you're Ronda or work for William Morris, how do you have any idea who set up what fights?

How would you know if Dana or Shelby ever talked to Harvey? Or whether Harvey talked to Rousey?

If Harvey was still doing some kind of managing for Rousey, how could you know whether he talked to her about a fight or not?

If Harvey talks to Ronda about who she should fight, then Ronda talks to Dana or Shelby, isn't he still advising her about fights? You act like Ronda has had no choice in any of her opponents. She and her mangers (whoever you might think that is) had no choice and were 100% dictated to -- as the fucking champion of a division and a PPV star. Get real.

If Dana stops calling a manager, and a fighter stops calling them, and her other agent doesn't call them, but they have a contract that says they get paid -- guess what....they get paid.

I can't believe the NSAC has the final say over any legal contract dispute. And it's not like they have any conflict of interest at all, with the UFC being the main revenue source and this being their star.

NSAC?????????

4/4/14 11:03 AM
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jagen
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All this time I thought managers did more than just procure fights!

When Zuffa hired Ronda they basically said drop your management, because we're gonna look after you from now on. Would Zuffa rather some randy manage one of their future stars, or would Zuffa like to hold those reigns? It's a no brainer here, and I guess a bad contract written up by the previous management.
4/4/14 11:20 AM
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove
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jagen - All this time I thought managers did more than just procure fights!

When Zuffa hired Ronda they basically said drop your management, because we're gonna look after you from now on. Would Zuffa rather some randy manage one of their future stars, or would Zuffa like to hold those reigns? It's a no brainer here, and I guess a bad contract written up by the previous management.

Well of course Zuffa would rather handle managerial duties for all fighters. But, you don't see a bit of a conflict of interest there?

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