UnderGround Forums
 

OtherGround Forums >> How good is your knife defense?


4/17/14 1:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimmy23
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 76205

btw, everyone check out the link I posted - it makes a lot of sense and jives with what Ive been told about real knife assaults from people who have done them, and been on the receiving end. FUck disarms and that crap, protect your vitals, nail the shit out of the guy, use any enviromental weapons you can ,and accept that you are going to get fucked up even if you "win"

4/17/14 1:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheHouse
213 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/25/09
Posts: 4562
I would survive. If I was not the first or second completely surprised victim AND I wasn't drunk at 1 am at a party. I would make heavy body contact and hopefully take down, once they are either on the way down or somewhat stunned/defensively reacting I might have better opportunity to disarm/keep attacking till they turn. Hopefully by then I would have a much more dominant position to actually "attempt" a disarm or others would join in. Random violence is a hell of a strategy unfortunately. Phone Post 3.0
4/17/14 1:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
202 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 113673

Calgary stabbing suspect acted 'strangely' in days leading up to massacre





CALGARY -- Matthew de Grood, the suspect charged in Calgary's worst mass murder, was behaving strangely in the weeks and days preceding the early Tuesday morning massacre that left five Calgary university students stabbed to death, says a police officer who knows the de Grood family.

"Let's just say Matt was acting very strangely leading up to this tragedy," said a veteran police officer who is close friends with the suspect's father, Doug de Grood – an inspector with the Calgary Police Service, where he has worked for 33 years.

"That evening, Doug and (his wife) Susan got some text messages from Matt that were really disjointed, really confusing and they caused them to think, 'Oh, my goodness, he's going to commit suicide.' They were really worried, so Doug went looking for him and was worried sick that he was going to find him dead. Susan called in a concern to the police – an alert. And then they got the terrible news that this had happened," says the officer, who spoke only on the condition that he not be identified.

Matthew de Grood, 22, has been charged with five counts of first-degree murder following the deaths of five Calgary university students who were stabbed at a house party at 11 Butler Crescent in northwest Calgary near the University of Calgary campus.

The accused was an invited guest to the low-key party held on what's called Bermuda Shorts Day, a 53-year tradition that marks the last day of classes at the U of C where some of the victims attended. It's alleged de Grood had worked a shift at the Crowfoot Safeway prior to arriving at the Brentwood home.

The murders of Lawrence Hong, 27; Josh Hunter, 22; Kaitlin Perras, 23; Zackariah Rathwell, 23 and Jordan Segura, 23, has left Calgary and indeed all of the country reeling.

De Grood, who was captured by a Calgary police canine unit several blocks from the murders, was initially taken to Rockyview Hospital to be treated for bite injuries.

He made a brief first court appearance via a telephone call to his room at the Rockyview late Tuesday.

According to news reports, when Justice of the Peace Scott Morgan asked the suspect, "Mr. de Grood, do you understand the charges," de Grood answered: "Um, no comment."

"I just need to know if you understand what you've been charged with," said Morgan after he read out the names of the five victims.

"I'm not sure," answered de Grood, who has since been moved to the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatry Centre – a secure psychiatric facility in northwest Calgary pending a court appearance next week.

Calgary Police Chief Rick Hanson told reporters on Tuesday that the knife used in the attack was obtained at the Butler Crescent home prior to the murders that occurred at about 1:20 a.m.

Neighbours near the house say the party was so quiet they didn't even know a party was going on – there was no loud music or any disruptions.

"A couple of days leading up to this, Doug said he and Susan noticed a change in Matt, where he would go quiet," said the police officer, who praised Insp. de Grood for being "just a top-notch person."

"Then on that night, those texts (Matt) sent made them really concerned about his own personal safety, but nothing to indicate that he was a danger to anyone. Not ever. There was no indication that he was in the frame of mind that he would harm anybody," said the officer.

"They never feared that he was ever going to hurt anybody other than maybe himself. No indication of that at all.

"This kid was a homebody. He had friends but he liked to stay home. He was successful and a good and gentle young man, by all accounts."

De Grood graduated from the U of C with a Bachelor of Science degree in psychology with a minor in Law and Society, and was accepted into the university's law school for the fall of 2014.

According to a health-care professional who also spoke on the condition of anonymity, de Grood was being treated for mental health issues dating back to his years as a high school student at St. Francis High School.

"In the weeks leading up to the event, Doug and Susan had noticed some subtle changes in Matt's personality – him becoming a little more withdrawn but nothing that caused them grave concern. They'd be talking to him and he'd go silent," said the police officer who has known Doug de Grood for decades.

"Doug and Susan saw him withdraw into himself but there was nothing for them to think that he could cause harm to anyone or that he was at risk to be violent. Why would they?" asked the officer.

"He was a really gentle and kind young man. This is totally out of character for him. The whole family is devastated by this, for the families of the young people killed. Totally devastated. Shattered. We all are."
4/17/14 1:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
202 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 113674

Even without experience, a blade can be deadly, weapons experts say.

"It's just not that hard to take someone out with a knife. It just isn't," said Steve Tarani, a former intelligence and security contractor with the CIA who lectures in personal security and protection.

"You can do it with no training. You watch TV and see gladiator movies where they stick you in the belly, and Friday the 13th type movies where they strike overhand -- you do have training even if you don't really know it.

"There are seven lethal strike zones in the body and they are very easy to get to," Mr. Tarani said.
4/17/14 1:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
billid
187 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04/17/14 1:38 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 28985
"According to news reports, when Justice of the Peace Scott Morgan asked the suspect, "Mr. de Grood, do you understand the charges," de Grood answered: "Um, no comment."

"I just need to know if you understand what you've been charged with," said Morgan after he read out the names of the five victims.

"I'm not sure," answered de Grood, who has since been moved to the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatry Centre – a secure psychiatric facility in northwest Calgary pending a court appearance next week."

...................

Great. Now some fucking sleezebag is coaching him on how to get away with it.
4/17/14 1:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
soundoff71
915 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/5/10
Posts: 3822
May the victims RIP. My heart goes out to their families and loved ones.

Knives are so dangerous and unpredictable. So many factors involved, it's hard to say who would do what or how.

This great video from Dan Inosanto illustrates just how dangerous & unpredictable knives can be, particularly at close quarters.
4/17/14 1:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
johnnypayne
59 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/22/02
Posts: 20782
jimmy23 - 

btw, everyone check out the link I posted - it makes a lot of sense and jives with what Ive been told about real knife assaults from people who have done them, and been on the receiving end. FUck disarms and that crap, protect your vitals, nail the shit out of the guy, use any enviromental weapons you can ,and accept that you are going to get fucked up even if you "win"


Disarms, not so much, but rule numer one in a knife fight is to control the knife. Now be that by keeping you attacker out of stab/slash range with a weapon or by taking the initial hit and seizing the knife hand, you must try to dictate where the knife goes.


And yes, you will bleed, you might even die, but if you do nothing, you WILL die.
4/17/14 2:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimmy23
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04/17/14 2:08 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 76212
johnnypayne - 
jimmy23 - 

btw, everyone check out the link I posted - it makes a lot of sense and jives with what Ive been told about real knife assaults from people who have done them, and been on the receiving end. FUck disarms and that crap, protect your vitals, nail the shit out of the guy, use any enviromental weapons you can ,and accept that you are going to get fucked up even if you "win"


Disarms, not so much, but rule numer one in a knife fight is to control the knife. Now be that by keeping you attacker out of stab/slash range with a weapon or by taking the initial hit and seizing the knife hand, you must try to dictate where the knife goes.


And yes, you will bleed, you might even die, but if you do nothing, you WILL die.

 

I see your point and Im not disagreeing with it, but seizing the knife hand, when there is blood, the guy is swinging,, sweat, etc, doesnt seem like a high percentage move to me, unless you get lucky..hee still has another hand to hit you with,, 

 

4/17/14 2:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BIGWHITESEXY
1059 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/20/05
Posts: 41577

I WOULD RUN........BUT IF THAT WASN'T AN OPTION .....I'D PICK UP MY WIFE AND THROW HER AT HIM........

4/17/14 2:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jrrrrr
157 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 1686
for later
4/17/14 2:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
johnnypayne
59 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/22/02
Posts: 20783
jimmy23 - 
johnnypayne - 
jimmy23 - 

btw, everyone check out the link I posted - it makes a lot of sense and jives with what Ive been told about real knife assaults from people who have done them, and been on the receiving end. FUck disarms and that crap, protect your vitals, nail the shit out of the guy, use any enviromental weapons you can ,and accept that you are going to get fucked up even if you "win"


Disarms, not so much, but rule numer one in a knife fight is to control the knife. Now be that by keeping you attacker out of stab/slash range with a weapon or by taking the initial hit and seizing the knife hand, you must try to dictate where the knife goes.


And yes, you will bleed, you might even die, but if you do nothing, you WILL die.

 

I see your point and Im not disagreeing with it, but seizing the knife hand, when there is blood, the guy is swinging,, sweat, etc, doesnt seem like a high percentage move to me, unless you get lucky..hee still has another hand to hit you with,, 

 


And you would have another hand, knees and head to hit him with, everything you do in a knife fight (any fight in fact) is about gaining the initiative, if all you are doing is backpeddling to avoid the blade, unless you have an avenue of escape (and enough faith that you are fast enough to turn and run before he buries the knife in your back) it isn't perfect, and even with my own EDC I couldn't say I'd survive, and I've been though it before and know what to expect.

There is a reason most doormen I know wear Stab Vests and slash resistant gloves these days, knives will fuck you up.

4/17/14 2:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Altofsky
626 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/17/06
Posts: 41053
BushkillBlades.com, Knifemaker
I've trained in various forms of knife combat and defense... and I carry silly sharp blades on me at all times...

Still can't say what would've happened if I were there... too many variables. Phone Post
4/17/14 3:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
soundoff71
915 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/5/10
Posts: 3823
Altofsky -  I've trained in various forms of knife combat and defense... and I carry silly sharp blades on me at all times...

Still can't say what would've happened if I were there... too many variables. Phone Post

It's refreshing to see so many sane answers on this thread, particularly from a guy who sells & makes knives. VTFU for brutal honesty.
4/17/14 3:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Altofsky
626 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/17/06
Posts: 41063
BushkillBlades.com, Knifemaker
Its as true as anything else ever spoken... if you have to draw your knife for a violent confrontation, something is horribly wrong and the situation will end badly for all involved. Phone Post
4/17/14 4:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
soundoff71
915 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/5/10
Posts: 3824
jcblass - I voted, there is no defense. However, as a 3rd party, if I saw a young boy/teen stabbing someone else, and could get an attack in without being seen (because his back is to me and he is occupied stabbing others) I may have a better chance to blind side, control and disarm.

However, one on one, squared up against someone with a knife, I would say you have about a 10% chance of survival. JKD great Paul Vunak would often give novices an oversized magic marker and have a "skilled" Martial Artists attempt to disarm them. 9/10 times the unarmed MA was covered in black ink and slashes.

It just isn't like the movies, and the blade is dangerous from so many positions. Unlike a gun, which even in LEO situations, often results in more misses than hits, a knife is cutting at all times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0fPL4f3Eqc - DOG BROTHERS KNIFE VIDEO ILLUSTRATING MYTHS

TTT

4/17/14 4:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheHouse
213 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/25/09
Posts: 4563
How many people were injured in the attack? Did he only attack all five and each of them died? Phone Post 3.0
4/17/14 5:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
202 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 113676

Calgary stabbing suspect was 'mingling' with guests before deadly attack





Calgary police say the activities of the accused leading up to the stabbing deaths of five young people form a "significant part" of the ongoing investigation into the worst mass murder in the city's history.

At a news conference Thursday, Kevin Brookwell of the Calgary Police Service said forensic specialists are working around the clock to gather more evidence for a "thorough" investigation.

Police on Tuesday charged Matthew de Grood, 22, with five counts of first-degree murder, hours after the stabbing attack at a house party celebrating the last day of university classes.

Authorities are looking into the accused's activities "leading up to the offence" and "people he may have contacted," Brookwell said.

Brookwell didn't provide many details, but said the accused was a "welcome guest" at the party and was mingling with guests prior to the stabbings. He said the accused knew at least one person at the party "very well."

Police are still trying to determine what motivated the attacks.

"There didn't seem to be any precursors to this as far as any grudge or any vendetta or anything that would result in a motivation for this attack," Brookwell said.

Police continue to interview party guests, including those who were there at the time of the stabbings, and some who had already left the party.

De Grood's lawyer Allan Fay said Wednesday that a justice of the peace ordered his client to receive an assessment at the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatry Centre.

Brookwell said Thursday de Grood is currently in Calgary remand custody.

De Grood is scheduled to appear in a Calgary court on April 22.
4/17/14 5:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimmy23
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 76213
johnnypayne - 
jimmy23 - 
johnnypayne - 
jimmy23 - 

btw, everyone check out the link I posted - it makes a lot of sense and jives with what Ive been told about real knife assaults from people who have done them, and been on the receiving end. FUck disarms and that crap, protect your vitals, nail the shit out of the guy, use any enviromental weapons you can ,and accept that you are going to get fucked up even if you "win"


Disarms, not so much, but rule numer one in a knife fight is to control the knife. Now be that by keeping you attacker out of stab/slash range with a weapon or by taking the initial hit and seizing the knife hand, you must try to dictate where the knife goes.


And yes, you will bleed, you might even die, but if you do nothing, you WILL die.

 

I see your point and Im not disagreeing with it, but seizing the knife hand, when there is blood, the guy is swinging,, sweat, etc, doesnt seem like a high percentage move to me, unless you get lucky..hee still has another hand to hit you with,, 

 


And you would have another hand, knees and head to hit him with, everything you do in a knife fight (any fight in fact) is about gaining the initiative, if all you are doing is backpeddling to avoid the blade, unless you have an avenue of escape (and enough faith that you are fast enough to turn and run before he buries the knife in your back) it isn't perfect, and even with my own EDC I couldn't say I'd survive, and I've been though it before and know what to expect.

There is a reason most doormen I know wear Stab Vests and slash resistant gloves these days, knives will fuck you up.


I do agree with that, maybe I didnt express myself clearly in my first post -  youve got to be more offensive and violent than the knife attacker - attack over defense, unless you can run

4/17/14 6:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Telamon
43 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/1/03
Posts: 18772
I was stabbed once at a bar and didn't even know I was stabbed; it felt like a punch. If the guy knows what he's doing, I'd be cut to ribbons. If its some dipshit off the street, I might have a chance.
4/17/14 8:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PoundforPound
161 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 28962
Berserker - 

3 years Kali/Eskrima followed by another 3 years of Balintiwok (more efficient eskrima hybrid), I think I could have disarmed him. First rule of knife fighting, you are going to get cut; face it and survive.


I love the Filipino martial arts and think that they offer by far the most sophisticated knife defense on the planet.

But I'm curious what you found to be more efficient about balintawak?
4/17/14 9:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cdueck
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/31/08
Posts: 1519

Balintawak has no flash, it is just close and brutal. I have a good friend that has trained in many styles of Kali/Arnis and absolutely loves Balintawak. 

4/17/14 9:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PoundforPound
161 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 28963
Is it stick-based or do they cover bladed weapons as well?
4/17/14 9:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jambo888
510 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/30/09
Posts: 17458

he must have been motivated to go through five people, one after the other... psychological breakdown/schizo?

damn. what do you do but try to make distance and pick up things to smash him with.

4/17/14 9:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cdueck
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/31/08
Posts: 1520
PoundforPound - Is it stick-based or do they cover bladed weapons as well?

It is stick based. The more I watch my friend the more I think it is made for a blade. The partner work is very close and fast and would translate well to knife work.

4/17/14 9:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Infamous D
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/18/14
Posts: 61
Ironically after reading this thread I went on Amazon and ordered a pocket knife for self defense. In breaks my heart to continue reading these stories on a weekly basis.

The problem is we can never solve this problem . There's always going to be people that do these types of things. Just wish they would leave innocent people alone. Phone Post 3.0

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.