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4/17/14 10:46 PM
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soundoff71
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I thought this video did a very good job summarizing the reality of knife attacks.

4/17/14 10:51 PM
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sside maurice
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3 years of eskrima.

He probably wouldn't get me because I'd run away and call 911. You should too.
4/18/14 3:04 AM
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Alvin Aguilar
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To survive against a knife attack, you must understand the mentality and techniques of a knife fighter. Plenty of people say that they can defend themselves against a knife attacker but that is only because they have never been or even have seen a real knife attack go down. No matter how good you think you are in "knife-defense" the best way to survive is always to maintain distance. The worst knife wielder is one who is mentally disturbed because they simply don't care. I have been training in knife/stick fighting since I was 9 years old and have been in several knife fights. No matter what "instructor level" i achieved, I most always got cut and have actually been stabbed twice. What let me survive was both luck and my understanding how knife combat works. I have taught elite military units both in the Philippines and in the U.S. and what shocks me is how little they understand the mentality of REAL knife fighters/killers. I have a page (yes shameless plug) knifefightingcourse.com, pls visit and for sure you will see concepts and techniques that will help you survive. These are what worked for me and my students. I'm also doing a series of seminars in the U.S. next month in L.A. and New York pls PM me if intersted. I actually havent "launched" this page yet but since you guys are my OG brethren i figured i'd share a bit. hope this helps.
4/18/14 10:22 AM
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soundoff71
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Alvin Aguilar - To survive against a knife attack, you must understand the mentality and techniques of a knife fighter. Plenty of people say that they can defend themselves against a knife attacker but that is only because they have never been or even have seen a real knife attack go down. No matter how good you think you are in "knife-defense" the best way to survive is always to maintain distance. The worst knife wielder is one who is mentally disturbed because they simply don't care. I have been training in knife/stick fighting since I was 9 years old and have been in several knife fights. No matter what "instructor level" i achieved, I most always got cut and have actually been stabbed twice. What let me survive was both luck and my understanding how knife combat works. I have taught elite military units both in the Philippines and in the U.S. and what shocks me is how little they understand the mentality of REAL knife fighters/killers. I have a page (yes shameless plug) knifefightingcourse.com, pls visit and for sure you will see concepts and techniques that will help you survive. These are what worked for me and my students. I'm also doing a series of seminars in the U.S. next month in L.A. and New York pls PM me if intersted. I actually havent "launched" this page yet but since you guys are my OG brethren i figured i'd share a bit. hope this helps.

Thanks for sharing, VTFU.

What's your background/what knife arts have you studied?

The Dog Bros. & Ray Floro seem to have knife defense systems grounded in reality. I've heard good things about Richard Dimitri's stuff, & cdueck mentioned his friend love Balintawak.

What do you think some of the better systems are?
4/18/14 10:48 AM
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sreiter
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knife fighting instructor (FMA) - heavily trained in gun fighting tactics
4/18/14 10:51 AM
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Tidbits
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Can't answer without sounding like I think I'm a badass or something. I would like to think I could stop the guy, but who knows.
4/18/14 10:54 AM
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soundoff71
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sreiter - knife fighting instructor (FMA) - heavily trained in gun fighting tactics

Feel free to go indepth about your background, what system(s) you think are most realistic/effective, & post videos.

4/18/14 11:08 AM
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jimmy23
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Alvin Aguilar - To survive against a knife attack, you must understand the mentality and techniques of a knife fighter. Plenty of people say that they can defend themselves against a knife attacker but that is only because they have never been or even have seen a real knife attack go down. No matter how good you think you are in "knife-defense" the best way to survive is always to maintain distance. The worst knife wielder is one who is mentally disturbed because they simply don't care. I have been training in knife/stick fighting since I was 9 years old and have been in several knife fights. No matter what "instructor level" i achieved, I most always got cut and have actually been stabbed twice. What let me survive was both luck and my understanding how knife combat works. I have taught elite military units both in the Philippines and in the U.S. and what shocks me is how little they understand the mentality of REAL knife fighters/killers. I have a page (yes shameless plug) knifefightingcourse.com, pls visit and for sure you will see concepts and techniques that will help you survive. These are what worked for me and my students. I'm also doing a series of seminars in the U.S. next month in L.A. and New York pls PM me if intersted. I actually havent "launched" this page yet but since you guys are my OG brethren i figured i'd share a bit. hope this helps.

interesting video, thanks for posting that

4/18/14 11:12 AM
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soundoff71
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Tidbits - Can't answer without sounding like I think I'm a badass or something. I would like to think I could stop the guy, but who knows.

From everything I've seen, read, & heard, someone who's untrained & unfamiliar with realistic knife defense defending themselves against a knife attack is like a white belt trying to stop a BJJ black belt from getting a choke. And even if you are trained, chances are you'll still get cut or stabbed.

From a martial arts/self defense perspective, I think this is a pretty important thing to be aware of.
4/18/14 11:47 AM
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Tidbits
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soundoff71 - 
Tidbits - Can't answer without sounding like I think I'm a badass or something. I would like to think I could stop the guy, but who knows.

From everything I've seen, read, & heard, someone who's untrained & unfamiliar with realistic knife defense defending themselves against a knife attack is like a white belt trying to stop a BJJ black belt from getting a choke. And even if you are trained, chances are you'll still get cut or stabbed.

From a martial arts/self defense perspective, I think this is a pretty important thing to be aware of.

Hence the reason I phrased my answer the way I did. I have trained realistic knife defense, I also trained Muay Thai for over 20 years. During knife training the first lesson I learned was "you will get cut".
4/18/14 12:03 PM
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Naughty Gorilla
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A dude in Shanghai walked into a POLICE station with a knife and killed 5 cops. Granted most Chinese cops are pathetic, but still. .. Phone Post 3.0
4/18/14 1:24 PM
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ranier wolfcastle
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i'd run before i tried to disarm a dude with a knife

4/18/14 1:27 PM
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jjchgo
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Dos Huevos Gigante - I'd get cut, probably pretty bad, and hopefully live. I'd make it my job and pleasure to kill that fuck, and if need be, take him to Hell with me.

pretty much this.
4/18/14 2:42 PM
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Badmonkey
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jjchgo - 
Dos Huevos Gigante - I'd get cut, probably pretty bad, and hopefully live. I'd make it my job and pleasure to kill that fuck, and if need be, take him to Hell with me.

pretty much this.

4/18/14 2:55 PM
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DaveFu
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I'm with everyone else, if he got the drop on me, I'd be fucked.

I'm not as experienced as some of these guys in FMA, but distance, obstacles, and improvised weapons can save your life. He's a little guy and there is no way I'm outrunning him.

You grab something long and or pointy and keep sticking it into eyes, face, neck, balls, and arms until he drops it or he goes down. Then you kill him and hope you don't bleed out in the process.
4/19/14 11:04 AM
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soundoff71
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Edited: 04/19/14 11:04 AM
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IMHO, this is an important, useful thread, & I'd like to keep the discussion going.

Although running/getting away is always the best option, it may not always be possible. I found some stuff on YouTube that could help someone survive. Would love to hear everyone's input.

Here's Ray Floro's take on knife defense. Have mixed feeling taking someone down with a knife, which he shows in the 3rd video, but it looks like it could be effective.

4/19/14 11:13 AM
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sside maurice
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I must be missing something. That looks like a great way to get stabbed in the neck.
4/19/14 11:30 AM
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Altofsky
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Tidbits -
soundoff71 - 
Tidbits - Can't answer without sounding like I think I'm a badass or something. I would like to think I could stop the guy, but who knows.

From everything I've seen, read, & heard, someone who's untrained & unfamiliar with realistic knife defense defending themselves against a knife attack is like a white belt trying to stop a BJJ black belt from getting a choke. And even if you are trained, chances are you'll still get cut or stabbed.

From a martial arts/self defense perspective, I think this is a pretty important thing to be aware of.

Hence the reason I phrased my answer the way I did. I have trained realistic knife defense, I also trained Muay Thai for over 20 years. During knife training the first lesson I learned was "you will get cut".
First intelligent post Ive seen from you.

Well said. Phone Post 3.0
4/19/14 12:47 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Edited: 04/19/14 12:48 PM
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The paradox is that knife training, types of FMA training, teaches you to attack with a bladed weapon. But the instructors are of the belief that part of this training should include 'defense'. There is no real defense against a knife, even if you have a knife. It's too quick, too hard to see that the attacker has a blade.

It's understandable that an instructor will add in various 'defensive' aspects, disarming aspects, but it's all a crock.

If you watch Ray Floro's vids you can see him explaining how quick and how devastating the blade is.

The best bet? Keep distance, angle off to gain time and shoot the attacker. If you have no choice empty handed, get a shield, a chair, or a barrier. Karl Tanswell (STAB) has the best unarmed methods.

 

4/19/14 4:35 PM
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soundoff71
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sside maurice - I must be missing something. That looks like a great way to get stabbed in the neck.

Floro doesn't mention it, but it looks like he's controlling the triceps & elbow with his 2 on 1, & the attacker's body with his shoulder. At least, that's what I think he's doing.

Altofsky, Alvin, other dudes in the know: your thoughts?
4/23/14 5:51 PM
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jimmy23
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ttt

4/23/14 6:35 PM
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shen
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Edited: 04/23/14 6:54 PM
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Black Belt, Torrance, CA

FWIW...

I realy lIke RayFloro's stuff, trained with him twice and I like the STAB stuff from what I've seen and the ISR Matrix, Redzone --all good stuff. BUT, my philosophical disagreement is that when you tell somone  who is highly adrenalized EXACTLY how to control an arm (i.e. "do it like this, like this or like this" )you can actually mess up their reaction time if the way the attack comes is in a manner NOT conducive to one of those ways of holding the arm. I've seen this happen and I've had it happen to me in Adrenal Stress training. It's still a little too "Martial artsy" for my taste.  I mean if we're talking a REAL LIFE situation where somone is actually trying to murder you with a knife, that is a situation were you're not going to be very "functional"; you're not going to do anything slick --your body simply won't allow it. Super gross motor, ultra simplitic is about as good as it's gonna get.

In true "survival situations" I prefer that student be given simple guiding principals, more than specific techniques. 

Here a simple drill done with regular people with no previous experience (except for one person). They were taught NO SPECIFIC TECHNIQUES, just the following principles: 

"Control the blade arm"

"Apply forward pressure"

"Knee the groin or thigh"

&

"Get away when you have opportunity"

No specific anything was taught. They start with eyes closed and begin when they realize they are being stabbed. Interesting to see how different people respond. Again, it's just a drill, but they do get very adrenalized.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIUb78mCzfA

4/23/14 9:03 PM
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hubris
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lol
4/23/14 9:34 PM
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AgentZero
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These are the type of knife defences I have done.

Blue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CIb7gdshwQ

But they don't work as the person will slash and stab away. So after any initial swing or thrust you'd be foolish to not through in a kick to the groin or sweep. Anything to quickly take them down.

Then remove the knife after a few good kicks and pinches.
4/23/14 9:36 PM
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soundoff71
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shen - 

FWIW...

I realy lIke RayFloro's stuff, trained with him twice and I like the STAB stuff from what I've seen and the ISR Matrix, Redzone --all good stuff. BUT, my philosophical disagreement is that when you tell somone  who is highly adrenalized EXACTLY how to control an arm (i.e. "do it like this, like this or like this" )you can actually mess up their reaction time if the way the attack comes is in a manner NOT conducive to one of those ways of holding the arm. I've seen this happen and I've had it happen to me in Adrenal Stress training. It's still a little too "Martial artsy" for my taste.  I mean if we're talking a REAL LIFE situation where somone is actually trying to murder you with a knife, that is a situation were you're not going to be very "functional"; you're not going to do anything slick --your body simply won't allow it. Super gross motor, ultra simplitic is about as good as it's gonna get.

In true "survival situations" I prefer that student be given simple guiding principals, more than specific techniques. 

Here a simple drill done with regular people with no previous experience (except for one person). They were taught NO SPECIFIC TECHNIQUES, just the following principles: 

"Control the blade arm"

"Apply forward pressure"

"Knee the groin or thigh"

&

"Get away when you have opportunity"

No specific anything was taught. They start with eyes closed and begin when they realize they are being stabbed. Interesting to see how different people respond. Again, it's just a drill, but they do get very adrenalized.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIUb78mCzfA


Great points that all make sense, thanks shen.  From the little that I've seen/experiment with, a 2 on 1 seems best way to control the blade arm.


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