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UnderGround Forums >> KB vs. MT: The fight that changed history


5/18/14 10:27 AM
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de braco
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The WKA guys always used legkicks and many thais fought in the WKA.  It's a crying shame that the PKA got the show on ESPN in 80 or 81 that led to tthem being the largest North American promotion with their BS full contact karate  

5/18/14 12:15 PM
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Tommy Gunnz
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sub Phone Post 3.0
5/18/14 12:21 PM
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canuck34
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InspiritMick -
MaxSouth - Many Thai fighters of that time would not have survived those first few rounds. That guy was a warrior. Duke was right about one thing, and that was that Kietsongrit didn't have too much else for him besides the leg kicks.

Disagree with both points to be honest and If clinch knees were allowed then Roufas probably wouldn't have made it out the first either.....

Both great fighters though
Same. I respect Duke but I disagree. Add in clinch, knees and elbows and Rick would have been in big trouble. Phone Post 3.0
5/19/14 1:30 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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canuck34 - 
InspiritMick -
MaxSouth - Many Thai fighters of that time would not have survived those first few rounds. That guy was a warrior. Duke was right about one thing, and that was that Kietsongrit didn't have too much else for him besides the leg kicks.

Disagree with both points to be honest and If clinch knees were allowed then Roufas probably wouldn't have made it out the first either.....

Both great fighters though
Same. I respect Duke but I disagree. Add in clinch, knees and elbows and Rick would have been in big trouble. Phone Post 3.0

Duke disagreed with himself shortly after! Went on to train in Thailand, and now his fighters use low-kicks, clinch, knees, and elbows a lot better than most in MMA. 

5/19/14 1:50 PM
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robhustle
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Thanks for posting this! I saw this back when it happened, and could never remember who the fighters were. I'd given up finding it again.
5/19/14 2:03 PM
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The Real Asian Cowboy
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LawrenceKenshin - 
canuck34 - 
InspiritMick -
MaxSouth - Many Thai fighters of that time would not have survived those first few rounds. That guy was a warrior. Duke was right about one thing, and that was that Kietsongrit didn't have too much else for him besides the leg kicks.

Disagree with both points to be honest and If clinch knees were allowed then Roufas probably wouldn't have made it out the first either.....

Both great fighters though
Same. I respect Duke but I disagree. Add in clinch, knees and elbows and Rick would have been in big trouble. Phone Post 3.0

Duke disagreed with himself shortly after! Went on to train in Thailand, and now his fighters use low-kicks, clinch, knees, and elbows a lot better than most in MMA. 


Correct. It really is a testament to the growth of Kickboxing in general, as well as the mental growth of people like Duke Roufas. Much like the early MMA fighters, many people believed that there is nothing "Martial Art" about taking a person down and pulling submissions. People just wanted flashy standup.
5/19/14 2:27 PM
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pattitude
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Great video! Excellent breakdown of the fight. What music did you use? It was perfect!
5/19/14 2:36 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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pattitude - Great video! Excellent breakdown of the fight. What music did you use? It was perfect!

Thanks man, the music is also in the description: 

First Song: King Hyen X - Cinematic Trailer
Second song: Ramese B - Memoirs
 
5/19/14 2:49 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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The Real Asian Cowboy - 
LawrenceKenshin - 
canuck34 - 
InspiritMick -
MaxSouth - Many Thai fighters of that time would not have survived those first few rounds. That guy was a warrior. Duke was right about one thing, and that was that Kietsongrit didn't have too much else for him besides the leg kicks.

Disagree with both points to be honest and If clinch knees were allowed then Roufas probably wouldn't have made it out the first either.....

Both great fighters though
Same. I respect Duke but I disagree. Add in clinch, knees and elbows and Rick would have been in big trouble. Phone Post 3.0

Duke disagreed with himself shortly after! Went on to train in Thailand, and now his fighters use low-kicks, clinch, knees, and elbows a lot better than most in MMA. 


Correct. It really is a testament to the growth of Kickboxing in general, as well as the mental growth of people like Duke Roufas. Much like the early MMA fighters, many people believed that there is nothing "Martial Art" about taking a person down and pulling submissions. People just wanted flashy standup.

Flashy attacks are difficult to pull off for sure, but comprehensive base of fundamentals is necessary. Amongst many others -- Saenchai, Samart Payakaroon, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Pettis and Anderson silva for example. Once "the rules" are learnt they can be bent or broken! 

That said, this is my favorite quote from the Matrix haha

Neo: I know kung-fu.

Morpheus: Show me.

Morpheus: This is a sparring program, similar to the program reality of the Matrix. It has the same basic rules like gravity. What you must learn is that these rules are no different than rules of a computer system. Some of them can be bent, others can be broken. Understand? Then hit me if you can.

5/19/14 2:50 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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robhustle - Thanks for posting this! I saw this back when it happened, and could never remember who the fighters were. I'd given up finding it again.

Glad to help! Thank Muay Thai Pros too, and Kirik of course =). 

5/22/14 2:59 AM
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Wasa-B
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LawrenceKenshin - 
The Real Asian Cowboy - 
LawrenceKenshin - 
canuck34 - 
InspiritMick -
MaxSouth - Many Thai fighters of that time would not have survived those first few rounds. That guy was a warrior. Duke was right about one thing, and that was that Kietsongrit didn't have too much else for him besides the leg kicks.

Disagree with both points to be honest and If clinch knees were allowed then Roufas probably wouldn't have made it out the first either.....

Both great fighters though
Same. I respect Duke but I disagree. Add in clinch, knees and elbows and Rick would have been in big trouble. Phone Post 3.0

Duke disagreed with himself shortly after! Went on to train in Thailand, and now his fighters use low-kicks, clinch, knees, and elbows a lot better than most in MMA. 


Correct. It really is a testament to the growth of Kickboxing in general, as well as the mental growth of people like Duke Roufas. Much like the early MMA fighters, many people believed that there is nothing "Martial Art" about taking a person down and pulling submissions. People just wanted flashy standup.

Flashy attacks are difficult to pull off for sure, but comprehensive base of fundamentals is necessary. Amongst many others -- Saenchai, Samart Payakaroon, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Pettis and Anderson silva for example. Once "the rules" are learnt they can be bent or broken! 

That said, this is my favorite quote from the Matrix haha

Neo: I know kung-fu.

Morpheus: Show me.

Morpheus: This is a sparring program, similar to the program reality of the Matrix. It has the same basic rules like gravity. What you must learn is that these rules are no different than rules of a computer system. Some of them can be bent, others can be broken. Understand? Then hit me if you can.


Nice. But kinda like the Helio Gracie line or "filter," there is something to be said about fundamentals and not everyone being capable of pulling off Saenchai, Samart Payakaroon, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Pettis and Anderson silva type shit but thats what makes those guys unique. Its always something to see convention turned on its head.

Also, i also see no coincedance that guys who have flipped the script on MMA striking convention have had backgrounds other than the standard KB/MT lines like Pettis, Anderson, Machida. Even Jones, everyone always points out to his reach but he's got the JKD mentality of absorbing diff things and being creative.

5/22/14 6:21 AM
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de braco
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"he's got the JKD mentality of absorbing diff things and being creative."

 

Otherwise known as every thinking person who ever lived mentality.  Good god you jkd moonies have problems

5/22/14 12:38 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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Wasa-B - 
LawrenceKenshin - 
The Real Asian Cowboy - 
LawrenceKenshin - 
canuck34 - 
InspiritMick -
MaxSouth - Many Thai fighters of that time would not have survived those first few rounds. That guy was a warrior. Duke was right about one thing, and that was that Kietsongrit didn't have too much else for him besides the leg kicks.

Disagree with both points to be honest and If clinch knees were allowed then Roufas probably wouldn't have made it out the first either.....

Both great fighters though
Same. I respect Duke but I disagree. Add in clinch, knees and elbows and Rick would have been in big trouble. Phone Post 3.0

Duke disagreed with himself shortly after! Went on to train in Thailand, and now his fighters use low-kicks, clinch, knees, and elbows a lot better than most in MMA. 


Correct. It really is a testament to the growth of Kickboxing in general, as well as the mental growth of people like Duke Roufas. Much like the early MMA fighters, many people believed that there is nothing "Martial Art" about taking a person down and pulling submissions. People just wanted flashy standup.

Flashy attacks are difficult to pull off for sure, but comprehensive base of fundamentals is necessary. Amongst many others -- Saenchai, Samart Payakaroon, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Pettis and Anderson silva for example. Once "the rules" are learnt they can be bent or broken! 

That said, this is my favorite quote from the Matrix haha

Neo: I know kung-fu.

Morpheus: Show me.

Morpheus: This is a sparring program, similar to the program reality of the Matrix. It has the same basic rules like gravity. What you must learn is that these rules are no different than rules of a computer system. Some of them can be bent, others can be broken. Understand? Then hit me if you can.


Nice. But kinda like the Helio Gracie line or "filter," there is something to be said about fundamentals and not everyone being capable of pulling off Saenchai, Samart Payakaroon, Roy Jones, Naseem Hamed, Muhammad Ali, Anthony Pettis and Anderson silva type shit but thats what makes those guys unique. Its always something to see convention turned on its head.

Also, i also see no coincedance that guys who have flipped the script on MMA striking convention have had backgrounds other than the standard KB/MT lines like Pettis, Anderson, Machida. Even Jones, everyone always points out to his reach but he's got the JKD mentality of absorbing diff things and being creative.


You'll like this ;) 

That said, Samart is due for another breakdown. Dieselnoi is coming up too... but before that, I'd like to attempt a special one on Duke Roufus :). 

I also believe that Samart has influenced Anderson Silva tremendously. 

5/23/14 3:45 PM
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Wasa-B
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Yeah I think duke mentioned that Pettit picked up the cartwheel kick fr Samart?
5/23/14 3:45 PM
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Wasa-B
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Sorry saenchai right?
5/23/14 4:19 PM
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huggy bear
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In Phone Post 3.0
5/23/14 8:32 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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Wasa-B - Yeah I think duke mentioned that Pettit picked up the cartwheel kick fr Samart?

Oh the cart wheel kick is definitely from Saenchai... but Samart for a great deal of other things probably. Samart is a switch hitter with a rounded game of skills. Many consider him to be the GOAT. Pettis is one of the best switch hitters in MMA. 

5/24/14 4:27 PM
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Wasa-B
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Switch hitter=stance switching?
5/24/14 8:16 PM
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Ponyboy
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Happiness Bunny - No disrespect to any of the old American style kick boxers but there was always something clinical inside of me that liked to see them get worked with leg kicks. To see a flashy style get defeated by simplicity.

Yeah......they would never think of trying to kick the legs when the rules would allow it.

It would never cross their mind.
5/25/14 12:22 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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Wasa-B - Switch hitter=stance switching?

Yes, Jon Jones, TJ Dillashaw, Demetrious Johnson, and Anthony Pettis are all switch-hitters =). TJ however, is the most active in switching and the most fleet-footed of them all. 

6/13/14 3:02 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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Ponyboy - 
Happiness Bunny - No disrespect to any of the old American style kick boxers but there was always something clinical inside of me that liked to see them get worked with leg kicks. To see a flashy style get defeated by simplicity.

Yeah......they would never think of trying to kick the legs when the rules would allow it.

It would never cross their mind.

You might be surprised how many people devalue low-kick... before they eat a few big ones!

6/13/14 3:43 PM
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MolsonMuscles
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LawrenceKenshin - 
Ponyboy - 
Happiness Bunny - No disrespect to any of the old American style kick boxers but there was always something clinical inside of me that liked to see them get worked with leg kicks. To see a flashy style get defeated by simplicity.

Yeah......they would never think of trying to kick the legs when the rules would allow it.

It would never cross their mind.

You might be surprised how many people devalue low-kick... before they eat a few big ones!


Exactly.

I became an instant believer in low kicks about three seconds after eating the first one.

Awesome breakdown, Lawrence.

6/13/14 4:27 PM
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canuck34
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Underground Blog -

KB vs. MT: The fight that changed history

 

The UG Blog is proud to showcase the work of guest blogger Lawrence Kenshin. His focus is on striking, notably the application of striking in MMA. Here he does a breakdown - his longest ever - of the first American Kickboxing vs. Muay Thai bout that was broadcast to a wide audience.

The vlog was inspired by a piece at MuayThaiPros.com that detailed the importance of Rick Roufus vs. Changpuek Kietsongrit.

“I really changed my opinion after I saw my brother Rick fight Thailand’s Chuengpuek," said famed MMA trainer Duke Roufus later. "I did an interview after the fight and put down the leg kicks, and said that they did not require much skill. I went to a few seminars that used leg kicks and it changed my mind very quickly.”

Like Lawrence on Facebook...
Follow Lawrence on Twitter...

 
Awesome!!! Phone Post 3.0
6/13/14 4:38 PM
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LawrenceKenshin
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MolsonMuscles - 
LawrenceKenshin - 
Ponyboy - 
Happiness Bunny - No disrespect to any of the old American style kick boxers but there was always something clinical inside of me that liked to see them get worked with leg kicks. To see a flashy style get defeated by simplicity.

Yeah......they would never think of trying to kick the legs when the rules would allow it.

It would never cross their mind.

You might be surprised how many people devalue low-kick... before they eat a few big ones!


Exactly.

I became an instant believer in low kicks about three seconds after eating the first one.

Awesome breakdown, Lawrence.


Thanks =). 

Even recently, there's still some stigma towards low-kicks

Cecil Peoples (judge) : regarding Machida vs Shogun (low-kick strategy)

http://www.cagepotato.com/cecil-peoples-leg-kicks-certainly-dont-finish-fights/

"Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn’t effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight – if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don’t do that." 

I just remembered someone telling me about this passage. Interesting enough, Cecil Peopes has faced some of the best in karate, and reffed fights for Rick Roufus. He was also inducted into the "International Muay Thai Federation Hall of Fame." 

http://www.usadojo.com/biographies/by-terry-wilson/cecil-peoples-tw.htm

6/14/14 2:51 AM
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LawrenceKenshin
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canuck34 - 
Underground Blog -

KB vs. MT: The fight that changed history

 

The UG Blog is proud to showcase the work of guest blogger Lawrence Kenshin. His focus is on striking, notably the application of striking in MMA. Here he does a breakdown - his longest ever - of the first American Kickboxing vs. Muay Thai bout that was broadcast to a wide audience.

The vlog was inspired by a piece at MuayThaiPros.com that detailed the importance of Rick Roufus vs. Changpuek Kietsongrit.

“I really changed my opinion after I saw my brother Rick fight Thailand’s Chuengpuek," said famed MMA trainer Duke Roufus later. "I did an interview after the fight and put down the leg kicks, and said that they did not require much skill. I went to a few seminars that used leg kicks and it changed my mind very quickly.”

Like Lawrence on Facebook...
Follow Lawrence on Twitter...

 
Awesome!!! Phone Post 3.0

Thanks!


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