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S&C UnderGround >> No improvement pretty much ever


2/11/12 1:57 PM
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419
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Try reducing volume by lifting twice a week. Warm up, then do two work sets of five reps. Stick to the basic lifts: Squat and pullups on one day, bench and deadlift on another. Take plenty of time between sets, and no assistance work.

Oh, and eat as many dolphins as possible.
2/11/12 3:42 PM
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Leigh
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500mg a week of test for 6 weeks. Get a couple shots of HCG for some basic PCT

Being a vegan will not help. I think your diet is almost definitely the problem but the gear will give you a kick start that you need after 10 years of getting nowhere
2/16/12 9:28 PM
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RedDragonUK
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Diet by the sound of it. Phone Post
2/16/12 10:38 PM
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orcus
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 I should point out that there have been plenty of times where due to schedule etc I have only done two or even one workout(s) a week, and saw no improvement; if anything, the next time I went to workout, I had lost ground.

For what it's worth, this is the 531 schedule I've been doing for the past 6 months. 4 different workouts, but I only workout MWF so the 4th workout comes on the following Monday and then everything else moves up a day.

Workout 1
Shoulder press (main lift)
Chin ups (bodyweight assistance)
Dips (bodyweight assistance)

Workout 2
Deadlift (main lift)
Leg raise (to bar; bodyweight assistance)
Back raise or glute ham (bodyweight assistance)

Workout 3
Bench (main lift)
Kroc row (1 set of dumbbell assistance)
Pushups (bodyweight assistance)

Workout 4
Squats (main lift)
Lunge (bodyweight assistance)
Abs (I do Scrapper's workout #1 ab workout on this day)



1/30/13 1:49 PM
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orcus
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Ah, memories...

1/30/13 3:27 PM
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AdrianK
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Get on a good weight gainer. I like Mutant Mass myself. Eat a lot more solid food a lot more regularly. Drink 2 gallons of milk everyday for a month or two. Try Super Squats program. Hire an online Strength coach who specializes in and has a proven track record in strength with themselves and their clients.
1/30/13 3:30 PM
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AdrianK
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Try to find a powerlifting/strongman gym in your area that you can train with.
1/31/13 2:36 PM
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Taku
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I did not read every single response above so sorry if this has been said.

1. If you workout more than three times per week, I would recommend doing less frequency.

2. Taking time off does not hurt your gains. That is rediculous. I had a client yesterday who had been away for 27 days. Most people would assume they had lost strength and use less weight (I know better). They came in and set PR's on every single exercise.

3. My guess would be you are doing too much volume and frequency, and not enough intensity. This is the most common problem I find when people are not showing progress. Do two brief workouts per week (or one every 3-5 days) and focus on basics (Squat, DL, Bench, Chin, Row, etc...).

4. Nutrition will be a key element. If you are not getting enough quality food, your gains may be stunted.

TAKU

 

1/31/13 2:53 PM
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andyman011
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As the poster above me I did not read all but my guess would be to bump up your protein intake and do some drop sets until you feel your muscles bulging so much it feels like they're just ripping. Don't push too far past that because you can actually rip your muscle but the idea to gains from what I understand is to tear the muscle fiber so your body can fill in those tears with more muscle.

You can't gain strength without putting on a bit of size and you can't say I'm trying to stay the same size. Girls will ultimately want more sex when you have a nice body. Unless you are competing pro who really cares if you have a shredded body, its not like you're going to get into a streetfight for 3 rounds and need cardio Phone Post
2/1/13 2:13 PM
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The Gunslinger
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You've got a lot going on. I'm moving right now, over the next couple of weeks, but I'll try to get in. I think I know the problem. I've seen it before.
2/1/13 2:37 PM
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HULC
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You seem to have a big aversion to gaining any fat, and that may be behind why you're not gaining any muscle - which ultimately is responsible for how strong you are.

Personally i would give it a month or 2 of GOMAD and see if you get stronger on that. You will gain fat, but you will almost certainly gain muscle and strength as well. Given you're naturally slim, you should lose the fat pretty easily once you come off the milk as well.

Details here:

http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-squats-gallon-gain-weight/
2/3/13 1:08 PM
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Charles T Rose
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Make peace with being a skinny vegan or eat properly and get stronger and bigger,5'9 and 140 is a bit on the light side, you need to gain weigh if you want to be stronger.
2/4/13 11:55 AM
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vermonter
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Well this was 6 years ago. Any updates?
2/5/13 12:52 AM
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orcus
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"Well this was 6 years ago. Any updates?"

Yeah, I tried a few more things like 531 and ended up exactly nowhere. TAKU, thanks for the tips. None of my workouts were ever more than 3 days a week and I always stuck with the basics -- squat, DL, weighted dips, weighted chins, bench, overhead press, pendlay rows are basically the only lifts I've done at any time in the past several years. Only 2-4 of those per workout depending on which routine I was doing at the time.

"Make peace with being a skinny vegan"

Yeah, I think this is the direction I'm going. 

Been doing Starting Strength for a few months, put on about 8lb, all that's different is it's harder to button my jeans and I look worse. No change in arms, chest, shoulders, or poundages lifted. So, whatever. Fuck it!

From what I read, I would need to gain a good bit of weight. Like I said, I did gain some (I added a few eggs a day -- I know, not vegan, they're from the family farm down the street -- along with PBJ, protein bars, etc; and put all cardio on hold for the time being) but no strength gain anyway. There are loads of people of my build/height/weight who are twice as strong as I am, but I guess genetically that is not in the cards for me.

When it comes down to it I just don't feel like spending the additional time eating, much less the additional money, or loading up on non-vegan stuff like doing GOMAD, just to satisfy my vanity and lift heavier weights that no one but me gives a fuck about me lifting, you know? I figure I'll keep up the slightly increased eating for a little while and see what happens if I reach 155 or so, but other than that I think I'm done; I'll just keep working out, maybe twice a week, so I don't turn to total shit, and make peace with being a skinny vegan.

2/5/13 10:42 AM
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vermonter
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Eat a dozen of those eggs a day and you're back in business.

I got decently strong as a vegan, even without very good lifting routines, but with meat in there it is night and day. As a vegan I don't think i'd ever be anything but skinny (i had big legs, and looked pretty ripped at 165 or so, but that was about my limit).
2/5/13 11:42 AM
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orcus
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I should add that I was no stronger (or bigger) as a meat-eater, or as a vegetarian who drank milk and used whey protein. I  looked a bit better, but I was also much younger. 

2/5/13 12:04 PM
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vermonter
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If you ate meat again, I could guarantee some gains if you were willing to put your all into it.

Or just accept who you are.

Both will work.
2/5/13 2:11 PM
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orcus
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2/5/13 5:32 PM
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HULC
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You've tried lots of different training methodologies, but flat out refused to follow any dietary advice given to you. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's your diet and not your training that is limiting you. But if you're happy to accept that then good for you.
2/5/13 6:20 PM
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Jacks Wasted Life
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419 - Try reducing volume by lifting twice a week. Warm up, then do two work sets of five reps. Stick to the basic lifts: Squat and pullups on one day, bench and deadlift on another. Take plenty of time between sets, and no assistance work.

Oh, and eat as many dolphins as possible.
Have you ever tried a routine this abbreviated? I strongly feel something very short and simple like this, plus dietary changes as recommended would result in solid size and strength gains. Phone Post
2/5/13 9:39 PM
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orcus
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HULC - You've tried lots of different training methodologies, but flat out refused to follow any dietary advice given to you. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's your diet and not your training that is limiting you. But if you're happy to accept that then good for you.

Yeah. Like I said in the OP, I couldn't care less about getting bigger and in fact don't particularly want to. I just wanted to get as strong as I could at my size, since it seemed like I should be able to get a good bit stronger without having to shovel food in all day and bulk up. But yeah, it is what it is. 

"Have you ever tried a routine this abbreviated? I strongly feel something very short and simple like this, plus dietary changes as recommended would result in solid size and strength gains."

Not exactly like that. I've done Power to the People, which is just 2x5 of deadlift and 2x5 of (in my case) weighted dips), but that was 5 days a week iirc. 

2/6/13 8:12 AM
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Adventure Runner
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Forget weights. Do yoga and gymnastics.
2/8/13 1:24 PM
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turducken
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try less work with more intensity. pick 1 push, 1 pull and 1 lower body lift. do 10x3 for each lift, resting 3-4 mins between sets, each lift done only one day per week. squeeze the shit out of the bar when you are lifting. maybe do the push and pull one 1 day, and the lower body on another. heavy as possible, but consciously slow your progression, so when you start, maybe do 7x3 and 3x2. then the next workout, hit at least 1 more rep...go with how you feel...if you feel like a beast, then hit all 10 sets...if it still feels kinda heavy, then just get that 1 extra rep. when you get 3 reps for all 10 sets, increase the weight by a small amount the following week(2.5lbs ideally). at the new weight, you may do 6x3 and then something like 3x2 and 1x1. its up to how you feel...you should be pushing hard when you feel strong, and just going for the tiniest progression possible when you feel shitty. just continue with this process. one other day per week you can also do some higher rep bodyweight stuff to get some blood flowing, but not for at least 48hrs after the lifting days.

assuming you are sleeping and eating well, if you cant progress doing this i dont know what to tell you. you may not feel like you are doing much, but after a year when you look back you will be a lot stronger. this simple routine worked wonders for me and allowed me to get MUCH stronger than i did on a 5x5 routine.
2/9/13 6:02 PM
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orcus
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Thanks for the suggestions.


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