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What if ... >> honest opinion on dogfighting?


5/25/07 1:59 AM
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SOLDAT
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Edited: 25-May-07 02:19 AM
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Stretch Plum I want you to read this everyone else feel free to FRAT The following is taken form the new yorker. Georgia-based group called the American Temperament Test Society has put twenty-five thousand dogs through a ten-part standardized drill designed to assess a dog's stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness in the company of people. A handler takes a dog on a six-foot lead and judges its reaction to stimuli such as gunshots, an umbrella opening, and a weirdly dressed stranger approaching in a threatening way. Eighty-four per cent of the pit bulls that have been given the test have passed, which ranks pit bulls ahead of beagles, Airedales, bearded collies, and all but one variety of dachshund. "We have tested somewhere around a thousand pit-bull-type dogs," Carl Herkstroeter, the president of the A.T.T.S., says. "I've tested half of them. And of the number I've tested I have disqualified one pit bull because of aggressive tendencies. They have done extremely well. They have a good temperament. They are very good with children." It can even be argued that the same traits that make the pit bull so aggressive toward other dogs are what make it so nice to humans. "There are a lot of pit bulls these days who are licensed therapy dogs," the writer Vicki Hearne points out. "Their stability and resoluteness make them excellent for work with people who might not like a more bouncy, flibbertigibbet sort of dog. When pit bulls set out to provide comfort, they are as resolute as they are when they fight, but what they are resolute about is being gentle. And, because they are fearless, they can be gentle with anybody." Then which are the pit bulls that get into trouble? "The ones that the legislation is geared toward have aggressive tendencies that are either bred in by the breeder, trained in by the trainer, or reinforced in by the owner," Herkstroeter says. A mean pit bull is a dog that has been turned mean, by selective breeding, by being cross-bred with a bigger, human-aggressive breed like German shepherds or Rottweilers, or by being conditioned in such a way that it begins to express hostility to human beings. A pit bull is dangerous to people, then, not to the extent that it expresses its essential pit bullness but to the extent that it deviates from it. A pit-bull ban is a generalization about a generalization about a trait that is not, in fact, general. That's a category problem.
5/25/07 2:08 AM
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SOLDAT
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Edited: 25-May-07 02:24 AM
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cont. Does the notion of a pit-bull menace rest on a stable or an unstable generalization? The best data we have on breed dangerousness are fatal dog bites, which serve as a useful indicator of just how much havoc certain kinds of dogs are causing. Between the late nineteen-seventies and the late nineteen-nineties, more than twenty-five breeds were involved in fatal attacks in the United States. Pit-bull breeds led the pack, but the variability from year to year is considerable. For instance, in the period from 1981 to 1982 fatalities were caused by five pit bulls, three mixed breeds, two St. Bernards, two German-shepherd mixes, a pure-bred German shepherd, a husky type, a Doberman, a Chow Chow, a Great Dane, a wolf-dog hybrid, a husky mix, and a pit-bull mix but no Rottweilers. In 1995 and 1996, the list included ten Rottweilers, four pit bulls, two German shepherds, two huskies, two Chow Chows, two wolf-dog hybrids, two shepherd mixes, a Rottweiler mix, a mixed breed, a Chow Chow mix, and a Great Dane. The kinds of dogs that kill people change over time, because the popularity of certain breeds changes over time. The one thing that doesn't change is the total number of the people killed by dogs. When we have more problems with pit bulls, it's not necessarily a sign that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dogs. It could just be a sign that pit bulls have become more numerous. "I've seen virtually every breed involved in fatalities, including Pomeranians and everything else, except a beagle or a basset hound," Randall Lockwood, a senior vice-president of the A.S.P.C.A. and ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S LEADING DOGBITE (emphasis added), told me. "And there's always one or two deaths attributable to malamutes or huskies, although you never hear people clamoring for a ban on those breeds. When I first started looking at fatal dog attacks, they largely involved dogs like German shepherds and shepherd mixes and St. Bernards, which is probably why Stephen King chose to make Cujo a St. Bernard, not a pit bull. I haven't seen a fatality involving a Doberman for decades, whereas in the nineteen-seventies they were quite common. If you wanted a mean dog, back then, you got a Doberman. I don't think I even saw my first pit-bull case until the middle to late nineteen-eighties, and I didn't start seeing Rottweilers until I'd already looked at a few hundred fatal dog attacks. Now those dogs make up the preponderance of fatalities. The point is that it changes over time. It's a reflection of what the dog of choice is among people who want to own an aggressive dog." There is no shortage of more stable generalizations about dangerous dogs, though. A 1991 study in Denver, for example, compared a hundred and seventy-eight dogs with a history of biting people with a random sample of a hundred and seventy-eight dogs with no history of biting. The breeds were scattered: German shepherds, Akitas, and Chow Chows were among those most heavily represented. (There were no pit bulls among the biting dogs in the study, because Denver banned pit bulls in 1989.) But a number of other, more stable factors stand out. The biters were 6.2 times as likely to be male than female, and 2.6 times as likely to be intact than neutered. The Denver study also found that biters were 2.8 times as likely to be chained as unchained. "About twenty per cent of the dogs involved in fatalities were chained at the time, and had a history of long-term chaining," Lockwood said. "Now, are they chained because they are aggressive or aggressive because they are chained? It's a bit of both. These are animals that have not had an opportunity to become socialized to people. They don't necessarily even know that children are small human beings. They tend to see them as prey." In many cases, vicious dogs are hungry or in need of medical attention. Often, the dogs had a history of aggressive incidents, and, overwhelmingly, dog-bite victims were children (particularly small boys) who were physically vulnerable to attack and may also have unwittingly done things to provoke the dog, like teasing it, or bothering it while it was eating. The strongest connection of all, though, is between the trait of dog viciousness and certain kinds of dog owners. In about a quarter of fatal dog-bite cases, the dog owners were previously involved in illegal fighting. The dogs that bite people are, in many cases, socially isolated because their owners are socially isolated, and they are vicious because they have owners who want a vicious dog. The junk-yard German shepherd, which looks as if it would rip your throat out, and the German-shepherd guide dog are the same breed. But they are not the same dog, because they have owners with different intentions. "A fatal dog attack is not just a dog bite by a big or aggressive dog," Lockwood went on. "It is usually a perfect storm of bad human-canine interactions, the wrong dog, the wrong background, the wrong history in the hands of the wrong person in the wrong environmental situation. I've been involved in many legal cases involving fatal dog attacks, and, certainly, it's my impression that these are generally cases where everyone is to blame. You've got the unsupervised three-year-old child wandering in the neighborhood killed by a starved, abused dog owned by the boyfriend of some woman who doesn?t know where her child is. It's not old Shep sleeping by the fire who suddenly goes bonkers. Usually there are all kinds of other warning signs."
5/25/07 2:13 AM
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SOLDAT
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Edited: 25-May-07
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As a columnist in New York wrote at the time, ?Not just ?most? but nearly every jihadi who has attacked a Western European or American target is a young Arab or Pakistani man. According to stretch's logic that says all pitbulls are unstable, all arabs and pakastanis are islamic terrorist jihadists. After all you never see a news report about an islamic terrorist jihdist who isn;t arab or pakastani.
5/25/07 2:17 AM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 25-May-07
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the last 100 posts or so on this thread have turned into a holy bleepin FRAT fest  batman!
5/25/07 2:24 AM
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SOLDAT
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Edited: 25-May-07
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I apologize for my FRAT post above they are for StretchPlum and those who mantain pitbulls are inherently mean, unstable, agressive, dogs.
5/25/07 2:47 AM
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SOLDAT
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Edited: 25-May-07 02:56 AM
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During the 1990s Rottweilers had several years in which they ranked number two on the AKCs list of most popular dogs (as measured by new registrations). If the breed is intrinsically vicious and aggressive why are there so few attacks compared to a rather large number of dogs? Between 1991 and 1998, thirty-three fatal attacks involved Rottweilers according to a study by the American Veterinary Medical Association. During 1999 alone the American Kennel Club registered 41,776 Rottweilers. The numbers don't add up to the breed as a whole being vicious. Keep in mind that the above figures only include the number registered dogs. Go to pet finder and you can find literally thousands of available rotties and pits. Open your local paper you will find litters in the classifieds. Search the internet. There are 10s of thousands of these dogs out there and if they were all unstable there would be more than the very, very small number of maulings and fatalities that have occurred. Sorry Stretchplum but the facts are simply not on your side no matter how much you claim to know, or how many unnamed experts you try to invoke.
5/25/07 10:21 AM
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shootfightermike
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Edited: 25-May-07
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soldattt!
5/25/07 10:35 AM
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tlrane
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/29/2005
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I'm not going to read this whole thread, but my answer to the original thread question is: It is the un-educated trailer trash humans that train their dogs to fight.... there is "no viable reason" on earth to do this and at the end of the days its an extremely cruel thing. You "will not" find a single educated well adjusted to society human being involved in anyway with dog fighting.
5/25/07 11:34 AM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 25-May-07
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"there is "no viable reason" on earth to do this" entertainment?
5/25/07 11:34 AM
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jujitsujamo
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Edited: 25-May-07
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I love the window stickers with the pitbulls that say "If it aint Pit, it aint shit". Rednecks are so cute. Reminds of my childhood living in the trailer down by the crick.
5/25/07 1:10 PM
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WISEGUY66
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Edited: 25-May-07
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SOLDAT is correct no need to post anymore
5/25/07 4:05 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 25-May-07
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I support the legalization of poodlefighting.
5/25/07 6:33 PM
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stlnl2
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Edited: 25-May-07
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'From: StretchPlum Date: 05/25/07 01:31 PM Member Since: 11/20/2005 5223 Total Posts Ignore User Last edited:25-May-07 01:33 PM Thanks Soldat, learned a lot. I acknowledge that I was wrong about the innate nature. However, there does seem to be a greater statistical danger with an unknown pit or rottie, not because of their inherent traits but because they are the dog of choice,at the moment, for those who want a vicious dog." ANY unknown dog with aggressive tendecies should be avoided. It takes a big man to accept he is wrong, and Soldat was pretty thorough with his info. Personally I have two rescue dogs, a pit (APBT-female) and a Rottweiler (male). I would say the rottie is a little more squirrely, but has never shown an inclination to snap or bite, and I suspect early abuse caused his jumpiness. The pitbull though........If APBT's are naturally "unstable" this dog must the the biggest genetic freak on earth. She was chained to a couch and abandoned after apparently weaning a litter of puppies. When I found her she had horrible pressure sores on her hindquarters, was 25 pounds underweight (she was 30lbs, and now fit at 55lbs) and apparently had not had any water for several days. Additionally she had a massive infection of hook, round, and heart worms. I honestly thought the dog was a goner. We got a pet adoption service to sponsor her provided we fostered her. I didnt think she would live two weeks and I was really nervous about putting her in a household with other dogs, a cat and people. If ANY dog should have been prone to aggression this would surely be the one. We ended up adopting the dog after fostering her for a year. It was impossible to find her a proper home, largely due to the fact NO ONE wanted a APBT, well the guy with three gold teeth at one of the Adopt-a-thons did, but he didnt bother filling out paperwork. The dog is great with people and kids. She lets a cat eat canned food out of the same bowl with her. I tell this to give you an idea as to what a pitbull can be like. This dog, regardless of breed,had every reason to be a complete disaster. But she has a great temperment and is great with people. SO if the breed is inherently unstable, how could that have happened?
5/25/07 6:43 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 25-May-07
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Adolph Hitler and Mother Teresa are both from the same species. Individuals within a breed can exhibit wide variance in temperament; the real question is averages.
5/25/07 6:50 PM
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stlnl2
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Edited: 25-May-07
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"Adolph Hitler and Mother Teresa are both from the same species. Individuals within a breed can exhibit wide variance in temperament; the real question is averages." Adolf was human?
5/25/07 6:51 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 25-May-07
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Yup. Jeffrey Dahmer too.
5/25/07 8:01 PM
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shootfightermike
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Edited: 25-May-07
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lol
5/25/07 8:33 PM
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Smith1234
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Edited: 25-May-07
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I can't believe that people support dog fighting. Go die.
5/25/07 10:24 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 25-May-07
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STFU dognuthugger
5/27/07 8:27 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 27-May-07
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ttt
6/11/07 8:08 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 11-Jun-07
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does dog taste like chicken?
6/12/07 1:03 AM
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shootfightermike
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Edited: 12-Jun-07
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this is my greatesttt thread eva!
6/18/07 8:01 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 18-Jun-07
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400+ posts on a dog topic? Damn, that's gotta be a record! lol
7/21/07 7:01 PM
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shootfightermike
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Edited: 21-Jul-07
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mike vick post yet?
7/21/07 7:58 PM
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jonny english
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Edited: 21-Jul-07
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dogfighting is for wankers ... a lot of asian people from my city are getting caught doing it , fuckin wankers ..... dogfighting is for the lowest & saddest scum on this planet , if anyone on here does it i hope you catch cancer and IF you beat it i hope your mom gets it

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