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What if ... >> honest opinion on dogfighting?

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5/14/07 11:33 AM
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Sam Sheridan
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Edited: 14-May-07 12:33 PM
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It's not the fight but the Keep that I object to. Those dogs are so beautiful and to keep them away from any contact is incredibly cruel, imo. Torture for a pack animal. The world is a weird, bad place. Before you get crazy about dog fighting, make sure you prosecute pet stores that breed puppies for holidays, and then ship the ones that don't sell to "no-kill" pounds, and from there they quickly go to "kill" pounds. Breeding puppies for shop windows...then killing them. Mada-- I used dogs to try and understand "gameness." Not the participants--but the crowd. What qualites were the crowds at fights and the crowds at dogfights attracted to? What's really interesting is that I thought this would be a huge problem before now. I thought I would get killed in reviews and stuff for this, and it never happened.
5/14/07 11:33 AM
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WISEGUY66
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Edited: 14-May-07
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The last cock fight I been too I couldn't walk for a week.
5/14/07 12:28 PM
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BigBopper
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Edited: 14-May-07 12:34 PM
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"You don't know how to analyze a statement other than by reference to the speaker's "authority?"" bywaterflotsam -- my point all along has been that there are only two logically consistent positions: 1) oppose dogfighting and be a vegetarian, or 2) eat meat and don't oppose dogfighting. having "moral authority" means acting in ways that are consistent with your beliefs. if your actions aren't consistent with your beliefs, then you're being hypocritical, and you're in no position to judge others. "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." so what's your argument here? "follow what i say, not what i do?" why shouldn't i believe the reverse -- that what you do is morally superior to what you say?
5/14/07 12:32 PM
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Ponyboy
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Edited: 14-May-07
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I'd shoot down all you pansies in a dogfight. You'd be all GLOC and I'd be on your six arcing rounds into your asses.
5/14/07 12:47 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 14-May-07
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"The world is a weird, bad place. Before you get crazy about dog fighting, make sure you prosecute pet stores that breed puppies for holidays, and then ship the ones that don't sell to "no-kill" pounds, and from there they quickly go to "kill" pounds."

Sam,

I don't understand this line of reasoning.  Accepting that statement as true, aren't we left in the same place?  Either both are wrong, and should be condemned, or both are correct, and thus, no problem.  Pointing at another objectionable behavior that is not as controversial a topic to justify another though is a weak argument, in my opinion. 

This is even before you get into the differences between the two scenarios.  Euthanizing unadopted dogs is in no way the same thing as fighting dogs for entertainment.  I'm not even sure why the comparison is brought up.  

I read your book, and honestly, was very confused with your commentary in the dog fight chapter, which I also was a bit disturbed by.  You write that the "keep" is torture for the animals, but that this is how the animals are raised in preparation for the fight.  You then conclude that you are neither for nor against dog-fighting, to each their own.  I find that quite odd.

5/14/07 1:05 PM
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JKaz
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Not only is dogfighting against the law.....it is incredibly cruel.....IMO...The animals that survive the fight most likely never recieve proper veterinarian care regardless of the gravity  or seriousness of the injuries as the 'owner' wouldn't want to face the potential legal repurcussions if they were "found out' while seaking treatment.

From an animal welfare standpoint, dog-fighting is one of the most serious forms of animal abuse, not only for the heinous acts of violence that the dogs endure during and after the fights, but because they literally suffer their entire lives due to the succlusion and solitary confinment they are subjected to in their upbringing.

5/14/07 1:14 PM
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stobe
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Edited: 14-May-07
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They are subhuman, and there only purpose in life is to be an example of how not to be.
5/14/07 2:15 PM
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Sam Sheridan
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Macedawgg "Pointing at another objectionable behavior that is not as controversial a topic to justify another though is a weak argument, in my opinion. " I'm not trying to justify dog-fighting. People are objecting to the way dogs are being treated--I object to it as well. The euthanizing example was just another way that dogs are being mistreated by society--that's why I made the comparison. People get their knickers in a twist because dogs are being killed in dog-fighting. That's great, but dogs are being killed in the pet industry as well. I'm not condoning or justifying either, I'm just trying to understand it, and learn from it. One of the things about watching the dog-fights is that the fight isn't the real mistreatment. It's the Keep. That's what I was referring to. In the book I was trying to observe without casting judgment, which of course is probably impossible. I'm not a judgemental guy. Or at least, I try not to be when writing on a subject.
5/14/07 2:16 PM
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dunc
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Edited: 14-May-07
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TheMilkman> Are you Patrick?
5/14/07 2:17 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Thank you Sam for the response, and good luck with your book.

5/14/07 2:23 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 14-May-07
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The pet industry doesn't really need to exist. Responsible breeders provide better animals, a life long support system, years of free knowledge about the breed of dog, and a love of the animals. They are not in it for a quick buck like backyard breeders and puppy mills. If you buy your pet from a pet store, or someone who bred their dog to the neighbors because "she is a great dog" you are part of the problem.
5/14/07 2:25 PM
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TheMilkman
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Dunc: Why do you ask? :-) TheMilkman
5/14/07 3:24 PM
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BushHog
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Edited: 14-May-07
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"Before you get crazy about dog fighting, make sure you prosecute pet stores that breed puppies for holidays, and then ship the ones that don't sell to "no-kill" pounds, and from there they quickly go to "kill" pounds. Breeding puppies for shop windows...then killing them." ***I could send you my resume. You would be quite impressed i think. I would have to check on the statue of limitations first i think...
5/14/07 3:44 PM
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timmyfront
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Edited: 14-May-07
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dog fighting is retarded. designer dogs are retarded. puppy mills are retarded. if you want a dog, go to the pound, find a great dog that some jagoff abandoned, pay $60 to have it spayed or neutered and you're good to go.
5/14/07 3:58 PM
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timmyfront
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Edited: 14-May-07
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im a vegetarian but statements like that make it seem ridiculous. huge difference between someone who eats a grass-fed/hormone free cow that was slaughtered as cleanly as possible and someone who watches two abused animals murder each other.
5/14/07 4:18 PM
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smac1
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Edited: 14-May-07
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"Please tell me you are kidding. You are comparing animal violence for entertainment to sustenance?" Go back and read his post where he explains that eating meat is "entertainment"... because we could eat soy instead.
5/14/07 5:12 PM
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jujitsujamo
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Dogfighting is the most redneck retarded thing on earth. How can ANYONE even argue that you have two "willing" combatants. That dog has no choice. ANYONE who fights dogs is a retarded redneck.
5/14/07 5:22 PM
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mr nemo
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Honest opinion? Those who run and participate in dog fighting should be put in a cage with 10 starving pit bulls and left there.
5/14/07 5:23 PM
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mada
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Sam I was glad to see your response. I was not trying to say that you supported dog fighting in your book. It's just that your book was my first glimpse into that world and what I read bothered me. Obviously, that is not your fault. I was surprised that it bothered me. I have several amateur fights and have never been upset competing in or watching mma. I really don't think I could watch an organized event where animals fight so their handlers can wager money and look for "gameness". Did you encounter anyone else with my views while researching how the crowd reacted to dog fights?
5/14/07 6:08 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Ugh, another thread with all the apologists popping up with their ridiculous talk of "dogmen" and other insider lingo. It's funny how NONE of these people EVER approve of dogfighting, they just devote lots of words to defending it or trying to cast it in a noble light. It's funny that the "dogmen" are more guilty of anthropomorphism than anyone, with their neverending projections of fighting spirit and pride and all that bullshit onto some animals that are specifically bred and trained to act in a certain way. No, it's not some sordid form of entertainment -- it's a noble pursuit that goes back millennia! Um, no, it's just animals doing what they are bred and trained to do. You might as well talk about the inherent pride, nobility, courage, etc involved in seals that honk little horns. The appeal of the "sport" is the desire to see valued HUMAN qualities (courage, etc) in what these dogs do; never mind that there is nothing resembling human motivation behind their actions. Of course they want to fight -- you guys said yourselves that they are fought in order to find out which ones will fight, so that those ones can be bred. Nice circular justification there.
5/14/07 6:43 PM
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Brandon Garner
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Edited: 14-May-07
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MMA forum members talking about dogfighting is about as funny as a dumb ass reporter who has interviewed some guys at a bar about "UFC Fighting" talking about MMA. Unless you actually have any idea what you are talking about, other than knowing some guy who's brother has a pitbull, then you should keep your opinion to yourself. Too many people have opinions about things they know nothing about. No wonder it took MMA so long to catch on. 10 years ago people said a lot of similar ignorant things about MMA and MMA fighters. Brandon
5/14/07 6:57 PM
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pulsar
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Edited: 14-May-07
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bywaterflotsam: What are you trying to present on this thread? Pro or anti dog fighting? Your posts make me scratch me head with their needless philosophical offerings.
5/14/07 7:02 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Edited: 14-May-07
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soy tastes nasty IMO
5/14/07 7:09 PM
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SOLDAT
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Edited: 14-May-07
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"Ugh, another thread with all the apologists popping up with their ridiculous talk of "dogmen" and other insider lingo. It's funny how NONE of these people EVER approve of dogfighting, they just devote lots of words to defending it or trying to cast it in a noble light." I think it is not so much that they are defending dog fighting as much as the fact that they are seeking to correct misconceptions. "Too many people have opinions about things they know nothing about." "What is to know. Two retarded idiot put their dogs in a pit to fight for their entertainment." This is a valid point that there are things you dont need to know a great deal about to know that you are against them. For example I would say that I am firmly against child porn. I have never seen it. I know very little about that industry or how it operates etc but I feel I can still reasonably be 100% opposed to it. That said it would still be wrong for me to make factualy incorrect statements to voice that opposition. Some things are pretty cut and dry but that doesn't mean you can spout of ignorant false information and then deride anyone who calls you on the fact that what you said wasn't true. "One of the things about watching the dog-fights is that the fight isn't the real mistreatment. It's the Keep" I was hoping you could eloborate on why you feel this way, and why you believe the keep is greater mistreatment than the actual fight. Perhaps you could offer you definition of "the keep" so that I can be sure we are using terms the same way. Thanks
5/14/07 7:10 PM
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FightinMD
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Edited: 14-May-07
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Stupid. Fucking stupid!

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