UnderGround Forums
 

DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Problem when trying a NVposture


3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Marcos Castro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
 
Tony: When training defusing skills and practicing play roles I use a lot the NVP where your hands are in front on you with the palms open and facing your opponent. Sometimes, my training partner begins to touch my arms like trying to move them in order to get even closer. Now, what should I do? I mean, it´s very important that NVP when confronting an aggressor, but I guess telling him to stop touching me sounds rude. Marcos Castro
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mike Galu
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Marcos, I have had the same experience when practicing the NVP. In a way, having my hands up in their face distracts them and forces them to deal with the boundary. They try to slap my hands or push them out of the way. That can buy me time to talk more, or it can tell me if things are going down hill. I will step back and angle off once or twice, but three times is my limit, usually, depending on the situation. If you keep your hands up and angle back and maintain some distance, you and your opponent, theoretically, should still be in the same relative position. No more open for anything than when you started. The "If you don't stop....Then I will..." isn't a de-fuse and telegraphs what your planning, opposite of the point of the NVP (feign submission while planning strategy). Marcos, if you don't have it, check out Tony's Chu Fen Do Level 1 tape. It covers the NVP with a demo and of course tons more. Best luck. Thanks to Tony. MIke Galu PDR Team
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Student4Ever
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Marcos, I am not a trainer, but i've train in the chu fen do for more than 2 years now... I don't want to talk too much without knowing the exact scenario... (is it your worst ennemy in front of you, or your drunk friend standing way too close) Each will create a different response... But Just remember this: If you have a good NVP, your hand are creating enough distance between you and the threat so that you can evade, block/jam (etc) in time... In my opinion, if the guy doesn't slap your hands out of the way and lets you touch him, then the contact against him is a GOOD thing for you... Because the tactile sensitivity will make you respond faster... so if the guy goes for a headbut or a haymaker, you will feel his body move and jam it faster if you already have your hands against him... Experience this when you train, you will know what I mean, when you touch the threat, you feel every single movement that the attacker do... So if the guy doesn't notice the fact that your hands are touching him, then GOOD! Use it AGAINST him. The more you play with that concept, the more relax you will be to defuse even when the guy is very close to you. I hope this helps! Eric
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TKDFighter
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
So I guess if he touches your arms it´s not justifiable to attack him, or yes? This would depend on the laws of the area that you are in. For the most part you will be charged if you attack a guy tha simply touches yours arms. Now if he was verbally threatening you, had a weapon, etc AND there were witnesses that saw this, you would stand a better chance of attacking him upon tactile contact. It is best to see what the laws concerning self defense in your area are. This will help you know what you can and can't do and what possible legal trouble you will have.

As Mike said, don't say " don't touch me or...." this will only increase the tension of the situation. Remember, you need to be nonconfrontational. Giving an ultimatum is going against that.

I'm not for sure if I agree with Eric's thoughts on the tactile issue. It is true if you are making contact that you can feel body shifts, etc; but I don't want to be that close to the target. MY personal preference is to have space between myself and a potential assailant. For me it gives me a btter chance to see an inbound attack and it also gives me a head start in case I need to run.

Chris

3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TKDFighter
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
If I may offer my opinion:

While using the NVP you must keep your distance from the attacker while performing verbal defuses. Now, this doesn't mean that you start to back up as he approches you. Use lateral movement if possible. If he continues the approach you will have to make the detetmination whether or not he is a threat and then you perform the required course of action.

If he is touching your arms, then you have already allowed him to get too close to you and in my opinion opening yourself up to an attack.

Chris

3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Marcos Castro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Thank you Chris, Mike and Eric "having my hands up in their face distracts them and forces them to deal with the boundary". GOOD POINT MIKE, I DIDNT CONSIDER THIS DEEPLY. IM GOING TO USE IT TO IMPROVE MY NVP. "when you touch the threat, you feel every single movement that the attacker do...". INTERESTING. I´M GOING TO EXPERIENCE WITH IT IN TRAINING. " don't touch me or.... this will only increase the tension of the situation. Remember, you need to be nonconfrontational. Giving an ultimatum is going against that." I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU, THAT WAS THE REASON I MADE MY QUESTION. Thank you guys Marcos Castro
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Marcos Castro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Chris: I know I´m opening for an attack. That´s why I made this question. But you know there are lots or attackers that try to get face to face with you so they try to move your arms away. So I guess if he touches your arms it´s not justifiable to attack him, or yes? And I dont want to be rude and tell him: "hey, if you dont stop coming closer I´m gonna..." Marcos Castro
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Marcos Castro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Hey guy, Today I was training with my partner and when he was doing the NVP, I was just really close (punching range), I delivered a strong linear punch and BAM!! My hand traveled between his arms and impacted right on his nose. He flinched (he put his head back and lifted a bit his arms but it wasnt necessary to stop my punch) Big problem, isnt it? :-)and very painfull Marcos Castro
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Student4Ever
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
To TKD fighter : I agree with you, I'd much rather have the guy at a distance so I can run/prepare when he does an attack... but the reality is, the opponent controls the fight... So if he gets too close, you want to be prepare for that, you want options... and if the guy really wants to attack you, believe me, he will get too close! So you want to be comfortable in that range. Moving away from the attacker is not always the answer... What if you have your back to the wall?? My 2 cents. Eric
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tony Blauer
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
A lot of insight is missing from the process and this is clearly the limitation of written word as the answers here were very good. COnsider this: a. There may be a prblem withthe NVP and how you adopt it or integrate with angling. b. You must incorporate the MIND_SET theory [SOURPRISE, SUSPICION, CERTAINTY] and understand how it directs neuromuscular communication. c. The scneario and the crediblity of 'imminent' danger is tantamount to the tactics. IN other words, you cant just practice a NVP indefinately without some goal based scenario or replication. d. The NVP is a tool to facilite de-escaltion or a smoke screen for a CWCT protrctive response - you must choose when you adopt the postions POnder this. TOny
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Student4Ever
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Thanks for the tips Mr. Blauer! Eric
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Marcos Castro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Tony, thank you for your advices. I guess I was missing something in my training drills. Now, I´m going to incorporate your advices to my training drills. Anyways, I have another question relating NVP. Do you think is a good option when trying to control an agressor who isnt attacking yet (in the de-escalating stage), grabbing his forearms to lower and control them so the sucker puch never happens, meanwhile speaking to him attempting to defuse the confrontation)? Marcos Castro
3/7/02 8:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TKDFighter
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07-Mar-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 0
Eric

You are correct when you say that the opponent controls the fight. Also it is indeed importnat to know how to defuse when you are encroched (sp) upon. Your post (to me anyways) made it seem "ok" to allow the attacker that close to you.

On the subject of moving back; I realize this isn't always the solution or even possible. If you will look at my post you will see that I mention using lateral footwork aswell. If you are in the "cornered/ backed into a wall" situation, this two will have a huge impact on the course of action you need to take.

Chris


Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.