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NatureGround >> TOP 10 TOUGHEST LAND ANIMALS


5/24/07 8:46 PM
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Turtle Powah
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 08/28/2003
Posts: 293
i wouldnt put chimp ahead of baboon either. baboon are the most aggressive with the most powerful bite (after the gorilla)
5/24/07 8:55 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15434
"Source?" University of Chicago, actually the Juvenile killed a buffalo, but this account also describes attacks on cattle. Even the biggest bulls have no chance against a tiger, so this is really superfluous at this point. Image and video hosting by TinyPic Image and video hosting by TinyPic
5/24/07 9:05 PM
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Afterbirth Sandwich
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 09/23/2005
Posts: 17154
lol dude, im sorry, but EY has fucking slain this thread
5/24/07 9:09 PM
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Jwizard
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 12/10/2004
Posts: 9018
Nothing would ever convince me that in a proper fight to the death that a tiger would kill an elephant, rhino or hippo. But, there is now a new thread
5/24/07 9:30 PM
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Turtle Powah
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 08/28/2003
Posts: 295
^^haha, well what if we decide on day-of weigh ins.  Anyway, i made a new thread for it. throw down in there
5/24/07 10:41 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15447
Documentation from the American society of Mammologists of Tigers frequently killing brown bears in addition to Rhinos, siberiam moose and elephants. Image and video hosting by TinyPic
5/24/07 10:43 PM
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Jwizard
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 12/10/2004
Posts: 9036
The details that that is leaving out, conveniently for you, are the size of the rhinos, elephants and bears. It states the rhinos are young, says nothinga about the elephants and bears and, as has been pointed out, could be smaller brown bears weighing in between 600-800 pounds. The bears we're talking about are 1200-1500 pounds
5/24/07 11:09 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 24-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15454
The uncanny strength of Tigers: Image and video hosting by TinyPic
5/25/07 12:33 AM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26477
"We are talking about 1 on 1 fights in the wild and in this case the Tiger would either win by killing the elephant or it would win by default because the elephant would just run away." UGHHH EY....BABY...this is what Im trying to tell you.... your 1 on 1 fights in the wild arent fights! Theyre hunting scenarios. Animals like those dont just decide to fight each other. Males of the same species or close species "fight" An elephant doesnt ever just "fight" a lion or tiger. Mybe the tiger is going after a baby and the adult tries to stop it. But youre trying to have it both ways by saying "of course in a real staged fight the elephant wins but in the wild the tiger either wins or the elephant runs away...but thats still a fight!" No bro its not a fight. Its the herd animal saying F this Im outta here. Seeing which animal is dominant revolves around both animals being committed to win. Putting their life on the line to take out their opponent. Thats why in those scenarios things happen that you dont see often in the wild. Thats why a 3300 pound animal can and likely would kill a tiger. Because the cat cant sneak up and pound on it. Becuase it wont be chasing prey, it will be fighting a cornered animal that has 2000+ lbs on it. Your tiger is a supreme hunter. Buts its woefully unprepared to fight against even or superior opponents when push comes to shove. Anyone with a serious knowledge of animals will tell you that a tiger is not killing a hippo,rhino, elephant, brown bear or anything else mentioned when theyre both throwing down. Maybe the tiger gets in one good pounce before its limbs are broken or its head is crushed. The tiger has no shot of playing slappy face with its paws or getting a throat bite against any of those monsters when theyre fighting back. Youre clearly obsessed with this and I respect that. But nobody is dogging the tiger. We're just saying that while it may in fact be the top land hunter its not the best fighter, not even close.
5/25/07 12:39 AM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26478
Also the idea that theyre talking about a tiger killing an adult male rhino or elephant is beyond insane. Same goes for a brown bear. I seriously want to find some sicko to make this happen just to make EY understand.
5/25/07 1:11 AM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15461
"your 1 on 1 fights in the wild arent fights! Theyre hunting scenarios. Animals like those dont just decide to fight each other. Males of the same species or close species "fight" An elephant doesnt ever just "fight" a lion or tiger. Mybe the tiger is going after a baby and the adult tries to stop it. But youre trying to have it both ways by saying "of course in a real staged fight the elephant wins but in the wild the tiger either wins or the elephant runs away...but thats still a fight!" No bro its not a fight. Its the herd animal saying F this Im outta here. Seeing which animal is dominant revolves around both animals being committed to win. Putting their life on the line to take out their opponent. Thats why in those scenarios things happen that you dont see often in the wild. Thats why a 3300 pound animal can and likely would kill a tiger. Because the cat cant sneak up and pound on it. Becuase it wont be chasing prey, it will be fighting a cornered animal that has 2000+ lbs on it. " How is it not a fight when they are facing each other 1 on 1 in the wild. If these elephants and rhinos that are getting killed by tigers are not fighting back even when attacked, then they are definitely not deserving to be ranked above the tiger. It's as simple as that. there is no such thing as your proposed " 1 and 1 death match" The simple fact is all these encounters in the wild are death matches. If these animals are not willing to fight for their own lives, or for the lives of their calfs, then they suck period. What makes you think these animals would be committed to a death match with a tiger when in the wild they won't "fight back" to a tiger? Also in the case of the tiger killing a fully grown indian elephant. The tiger faced the elephant head on becaues all the injuries to the elephant were to the TRUNK. Even lone zebras when attacked by lions, fight back and sometimes THEY WIN. Another case where a whole pack of lions attack a bull, the BULL does fight back and fatally injures a lioness. With the information we have that is documented by reliable sources, the TIGER is capable of killing rhinos, elephants, brown bears, 3000 gaur etc. in ONE on ONE battles to the death. Yes these are battles to the death because if they don't fight back and kill the tiger, they will die.
5/25/07 1:19 AM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26487
EY, find me a single respected, reputable animal expert who says that ANY tiger ever would kill a male adult elephant. I dont think you realize what youre saying here. Basically according to you Scipio Africanus and Alexander should have simply just had tigers on hand to take out the war elephants of Hannibal and Porus is that right?
5/25/07 1:29 AM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07 01:38 AM
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15463
"EY, find me a single respected, reputable animal expert who says that ANY tiger ever would kill a male adult elephant." Why would I need to consult so-called animal experts on this issue when I have clear factual documented evidence of Tigers killing fully grown adult elephants?
5/25/07 12:52 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26507
We need to make this happen. Perhaps a floating arena of death over international waters. I think thats where they held the Mike Tyson/Secretariat fight.
5/25/07 1:00 PM
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Jwizard
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/10/2004
Posts: 9040
If HELWIG makes this happen, I will wager whatever money EV wants that the tiger will die. We can also wager on how long it lasts
5/25/07 5:06 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26510
"It's chances of killing a full grown hippo are slim" Right yet somehow when you replace lion with tiger and hippo with elephant it becomes "the tiger will win" This fantasy that a tiger is superior to 5 lions working together is nonsense. 3 lions to beat a brown bear yet a tiger can do it. A pack of lions to down an elephant yet a tiger can do it. Theyre much more similar than EY seems to think.
5/25/07 5:33 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26516
"I think at most, the tiger or lion could drive the elephant away, thus, winning the fight, but killing it? The chances are incredibly slim." Right. But that is what we are arguing here. I could drive a bear off with loud noises but I certainly couldnt kill it if it decided to fight me. I want to see a lion, tiger, bear, hell all 3 teamed up try and do anything to a bull elephant thats looking for trouble.
5/25/07 6:04 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15493
"Right yet somehow when you replace lion with tiger and hippo with elephant it becomes "the tiger will win" This fantasy that a tiger is superior to 5 lions working together is nonsense. " The tiger has been known to kill 3000 lb. bulls alone regularly. This is documented. IT has been documented to kill indian elephants alone. Tigers have killed full grown rhinos. Lions have never come close to achieving the hunting achievements of tigers alone. This is a fact, not an opinion. Tigers are lone hunters, lions are pack hunters so the parallel that you are trying to make is not valid.
5/25/07 6:06 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15494
"3 lions to beat a brown bear yet a tiger can do it. A pack of lions to down an elephant yet a tiger can do it. Theyre much more similar than EY seems to think. " Tigers killing and eating brown bears alone is not an opinion it is a fact substantiated by leading scientific journals. We have already established that in the wild the tiger can kill rhinos, elephants, gaur, brown bears etc. The only dispute we have is that if a tiger can kill an African bull elephant, which is 25x larger than a tiger, instead of 20x larger indian elephant that the tiger has been known to kill.
5/25/07 6:22 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15495
"Do you believe that these 3,000 lb bulls could also kill tigers? Do you think it's possible? Do you believe that a 1,500 lb kodiak bear could kill a tiger? I do." Of course it's possible and has happened I'm pretty sure. Bears have killed tigers before as well. What i'm talking about is if you put the finest example of a Bengal Tiger against a relatively peaceful elephant, rhino, Bear etc. there is a higher likelihood of a hungry aggressive tiger victory, rather than the opposite. The tiger will most definitely be the aggressor in every case.
5/25/07 6:27 PM
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demonsloth
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 10/09/2006
Posts: 1112
"relatively peaceful elephant" Sedated by tranquilizers? If a tiger attacks a male elephant I doubt the elephant will remain peaceful about it. Tigers are awesome animals, but give up the argument about tigers killing male african elephants.
5/25/07 6:39 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15497
"Sedated by tranquilizers? If a tiger attacks a male elephant I doubt the elephant will remain peaceful about it. Tigers are awesome animals, but give up the argument about tigers killing male african elephants. " This is pure speculation on your part. The elephant would most likely try to run away when attacked by a tiger. There are 2 videos of tigers charging elephants, and both times the elephants were startled and scared. When the tiger killed the full grown elephant in India, why didn't the elephant get riled up and fight back? Instead it suffered fatal wounds and died by the tiger who attacked it head on biting its trunk. the "fight" that i'm talking about is not a pit fight. It is when they confront each other and the Tiger is trying to make the elephant his meal, and the elephant is trying to save his own life. This to me is a real battle to the death. In these cases I believe that no animal can defeat the best tigers.
5/25/07 6:43 PM
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demonsloth
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 10/09/2006
Posts: 1113
Indian elephants are much smaller than African elephants. And there is no telling if the elephant in your example had pre-existing conditions which prevented it from protecting itself.
5/25/07 7:18 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26520
"Indian elephants are much smaller than African elephants." Yes and theyre been abused for millenia and used as labor. The African elephant beats everything there is. Its the gold standard of zoology. "the "fight" that i'm talking about is not a pit fight. It is when they confront each other and the Tiger is trying to make the elephant his meal, and the elephant is trying to save his own life. This to me is a real battle to the death. In these cases I believe that no animal can defeat the best tigers." If a tiger tries to make a meal out of a hippo, adult brown male bear, rhino or african elephant, and they fight back the tiger is dying miserably bro.
5/25/07 7:22 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15500
" Indian elephants are much smaller than African elephants. And there is no telling if the elephant in your example had pre-existing conditions which prevented it from protecting itself." Not much smaller. 11000 lbs. to 15,000 lbs. About 4000 lbs. This is about the same ratio size diff. between a male lion and a male tiger. In nature, we cannot control for things such as the elephant being sufficiently angry or aggressive, or the elephant in question being the most alpha. In the case of the elephant killed by a tiger, the tiger was actually female. I am just saying in the wild, with all the uncertainties and the infinite variables, by probability, a tiger an expert hunter with great killing instincts can kill an elephant.

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