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NatureGround >> TOP 10 TOUGHEST LAND ANIMALS


5/25/07 6:43 PM
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demonsloth
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 10/09/2006
Posts: 1113
Indian elephants are much smaller than African elephants. And there is no telling if the elephant in your example had pre-existing conditions which prevented it from protecting itself.
5/25/07 7:18 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
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"Indian elephants are much smaller than African elephants." Yes and theyre been abused for millenia and used as labor. The African elephant beats everything there is. Its the gold standard of zoology. "the "fight" that i'm talking about is not a pit fight. It is when they confront each other and the Tiger is trying to make the elephant his meal, and the elephant is trying to save his own life. This to me is a real battle to the death. In these cases I believe that no animal can defeat the best tigers." If a tiger tries to make a meal out of a hippo, adult brown male bear, rhino or african elephant, and they fight back the tiger is dying miserably bro.
5/25/07 7:22 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15500
" Indian elephants are much smaller than African elephants. And there is no telling if the elephant in your example had pre-existing conditions which prevented it from protecting itself." Not much smaller. 11000 lbs. to 15,000 lbs. About 4000 lbs. This is about the same ratio size diff. between a male lion and a male tiger. In nature, we cannot control for things such as the elephant being sufficiently angry or aggressive, or the elephant in question being the most alpha. In the case of the elephant killed by a tiger, the tiger was actually female. I am just saying in the wild, with all the uncertainties and the infinite variables, by probability, a tiger an expert hunter with great killing instincts can kill an elephant.
5/25/07 7:31 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15501
"If a tiger tries to make a meal out of a hippo, adult brown male bear, rhino or african elephant, and they fight back the tiger is dying miserably bro." You cannot give the elphant, rhino, bear attributes it does not have, in this case mental attributes or gameness. Sure some elephants might go apeshit but the vast majority will be startled and shocked and succumb to the tiger's wrath. Either that or they will run away.
5/25/07 9:40 PM
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shootfightermike
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Edited: 25-May-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 44480
hippo
5/26/07 12:06 AM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26524
"Polar Bear vs Kodiak Bear = dead Kodiak Bear" Incorrect. "1 African Bull Elephant 2 Polar Bear 3 Kodiak Bear 4 Siberian Tiger 5 Male Lion" No its African elephant, hippo, rhino, brown, polar Tiger isnt even top 5.
5/26/07 12:47 AM
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supersaiyan
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 03/20/2002
Posts: 12265
woolly mammoth would own all asses listed
5/26/07 2:13 AM
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DildoBaggins
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 08/23/2006
Posts: 662
I think Monster Pig should be on this list somewhere.
5/26/07 6:09 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
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"woolly mammoth would own all asses listed" Yeah but if we're going with anything ever then thats a crazy turn Im not sure ANY of us are prepared for.
5/26/07 6:55 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 26538
ttt
5/26/07 7:00 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15525
"No its African elephant, hippo, rhino, brown, polar Tiger isnt even top 5. " Helwig, again you are giving your favored animals mental attributes that it does not have. I cannot make a ranking of fighters and say Kevin Randleman is the best fighter because he is the most athletic and has all the physical tools to be the best. first of all he doesn't have the skills to be the best, nor does he have the mental gameness to be the best. A lot of your animals are like this, including the bear and the elephant. Sure it's big and has the potential to be the best, but it hasn't demonstrated killer instinct on a consistent basis. You can't use outliers of aggressive elephants for your choice animal. In almost all cases if a tiger confronted an elephant, bear , hippo etc, they would all run from the tiger. The big grizzly bear has been caught on video escaping from cougars and even wolverines. The predatory or killer instinct isn't as developed as in an animal such as the Tiger.
5/26/07 7:32 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 05/28/2003
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EY you seem to be fairly reasonable and I respect the points youre trying to make. I really think we need to agree to acknowledge two separate debates here. The first being what events are known to happen in nature. And which events could we conceieve of organizing as humans for our curiousity. Then speculate as to what would happen in either. For example an African elephant doesnt even encounter a bear as far as Im aware. I fully concede the following to you: Many animals including indian elephants and brown bears will run away from a tiger that is stalking them. The tiger, if it catches them by suprise may even be able to kill them in a hunter/prey scenario. HOWEVER, everything I have ever read or experienced on the subject of animal death fighting continues to maintain my opinion that the tiger is not the superior fighting animal and indeed isnt even top 5 under my scenario. Nothing present to favor either beast. Just that they both are aware of each other and neither can flee. The elephant, rhino, hipoo, brown bear and polar bear all kill your cat in my opinion. Id even take the Leo over it too. So in somewhat of a compromise I agree I cant try and make a herd animal in a "shoot" scenario decide to throw down with the tiger. But UFC style my animals kill yours. This is similar to the UG arguments between fighting the champ in a ring or on the street.
5/26/07 9:35 PM
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demonsloth
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 10/09/2006
Posts: 1117
I don't recall anyone mentioning the American Bison.
5/26/07 11:14 PM
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Gorgeous
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Edited: 26-May-07
Member Since: 06/14/2002
Posts: 9118
I quibble with water buffalo.
5/27/07 4:23 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 27-May-07
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ttt
5/27/07 4:53 PM
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Jwizard
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 12/10/2004
Posts: 9057
I concur with what HELWIG stated. We've just been going round and round about this. I still maintain that most of the time an elephant, rhino, hippo, brown and polar bear will kill a tiger "in the wild;" in a "street" scenario, to borrow from HELWIG. But shit does happen, as EY has shown. However, in a set-up fight, I would bet my life without any hesitation on the animals in my Top 5 destroying a tiger. BTW, in regards to tops all time, I think it's extremely difficult to say in regards to land animals, but to my knowledge, taking all animals ever discovered into account, the Sperm Whale is still the largest carnivorous species ever. Make of that what you will
5/27/07 5:12 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15594
HELWIG, I have already admitted that in a setup fight UFC style, the tiger has no chance against an African Elephant. The mass and bulk of the elephant would be too much to overcome in an enclosure. However regarding bears I disagree, I believe in a caged fight the tiger can still beat a bear. The bear has thick skin, but nothing that cannot be penetrated by a tiger. The tiger is faster, more cunning and more aggressive than a bear. The weight difference is not that big of an issue since the biggest bears are what 1300-1500 lbs? tigers kill indian bison double that weight. People remark on the bears swipe being lethal, but tiger swipes are just as lethal and are known to kill humans or other animals with one swipe. Tigers also have sharper claws while bears have very dull claws. Rhino and hippo would probably fare better against a tiger in a small enclosure. In a larger enclosure I still pick the tiger. I've seen hippos fight they are way too slow and one dimensional to beat a tiger IMO. The tiger would just have to get behind the hippo and it's game over. The elphant has its tusks and has necessary height for lethal stomps, the hippo only has it's large jaws, while lethal are far too slow to catch the tiger with.
5/27/07 5:21 PM
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Jwizard
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 12/10/2004
Posts: 9059
I think a 30 yard X 30 yard enclosure would be optimum for an animal death fight. Enough room to move around, no obstacles in the way. Tiger is in the top 10, but not Top 5
5/27/07 5:41 PM
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supersonic
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 11/27/2002
Posts: 8464
Two primary weapons for carnivors, in order are teeth and claws. A tiger for example has longer teeth and sharper claws than the bear. Just something to think about. Would be a site to see, and something i dont think i would want to see.
5/27/07 5:45 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 27-May-07
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"BTW, in regards to tops all time, I think it's extremely difficult to say in regards to land animals, but to my knowledge, taking all animals ever discovered into account, the Sperm Whale is still the largest carnivorous species ever. Make of that what you will" Interesting. I dont know if ol' jizz-head could deal with LIOPLEURODON. The Sperm Whale (Physeter macrocephalus) is the largest of all toothed whales and is the largest toothed animal alive, measuring up to 18 metres (60 ft) long. 50,000 kg. VS Liopleurodon. At almost 25 m long Liopleurodon was the biggest carnivore that ever existed. I dont even care if that info is accurate. He could fight Basilosaurus too. The whale is likely to be much heavier and stronger but they may be too "street" for it. EY I just dont want you to place too much emphasis on the size of the exclosure. 30 yards by 30 yards should b e plenty of space for any shit the tiger wants to pull and not small enough for the elephant to automatically corner it. Obviously I will disagree about bear, rhino, and hippo. The tiger still must make contact to try and fight and I think that in your mind its just gonna jump on their back like shadow of the collosus type shit. But every mistake your cat makes it risks suffering a lethal blow that will paralyze or crush it to death.
5/27/07 8:43 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 27-May-07
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Posts: 26580
ttt
5/27/07 9:22 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15627
"It's not often that Siberian Tigers get up to 800 lbs. Male Lions, for the most part, are about 500 lbs. The average Siberian is 600 lbs." Male lions can get UP to 500 lbs. That's the upper limit usually. They are not on average 500 lbs. Siberian tigers are between 600-800 lbs. They haven't been measured often because they are so rare. There are only about 400 left in the world.
5/27/07 9:29 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15630
"Generally, lions are closer to 500 lbs than anything. Even so, they are not giving that much of a weight advantage to the tiger. Lions are generally more aggressive than tigers too." I would say at least there is a 200-300 lb. weight disparity and it can get up to 500 lbs. or more. Also I disagree that lions are more aggressive than tigers. Tigers have been known to charge elephants alone, I've never heard or seen a lone lion do that. Tigers hunt alone, by their very nature they have to be more aggressive due to no backup.
5/27/07 9:36 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Edited: 27-May-07
Member Since: 12/03/2003
Posts: 15632
"were as Tigers are solitary hunters, but just because they hunt alone, it does not mean that they will not be able kill a Male Lion, because i belive they could" This doesn't need to be asked. it can be proved that a Tiger has killed a lion before. The newspaper clip I posted earlier shows this. This is still the strongest piece of documented evidence for a tiger killing the lion. To me the most convincing argument is that lions need a whole pack to take down ordinary buffalo, tigers can take down and kill the biggest bulls in the world alone.
5/28/07 3:51 AM
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Jwizard
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Edited: 28-May-07
Member Since: 12/10/2004
Posts: 9061
HELWIG, everything you have heard about Liopleurodon, most likely from the "Walking With Dinosaurs" series on Discovery is false in regards to size. That series blew up the weights for a lot of animals. I did some pretty rigorous research on it at the time and it concluded with them being MUCH smaller than what was said on that show. In conclusion, megalodon and liopleurodon are both smaller than the mighty Sperm Whale.

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