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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Sambo Nationals


10/25/02 10:53 AM
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WSF
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Edited: 25-Oct-02
Member Since: 18-Aug-02
Posts: 4
 
Greetings to grapplers from all styles. The World Sambo Federation is hosting a national grappling competition on Saturday November 9th in Evansville, Indiana. The event is open to all and will be covered by Grappling Magazine. We train in the arts of Sambo, BJJ, Judo, Wrestling and Muay Thai so the rules for our events cater to all grappling styles. Check out the rules at www.go.to/thewsf . It is our hope that you will compete and demonstrate your ground game at our first annual event. See you there! Dr.Darrin Pordash-World Sambo Federation President
10/25/02 12:34 PM
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QUINCY RICE
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Edited: 25-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 3893
Hello, First I think it is wonderful that you are running a submission tournament as the more there are out there, the better everyone gets but, This is not Sambo...
10/25/02 12:49 PM
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beau
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Edited: 25-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 2882
It is great your putting together an event, but... WSF - WTF?
10/25/02 1:02 PM
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QUINCY RICE
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Edited: 25-Oct-02 03:07 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 3896
The rules are not Sambo...I dont care much what organization it is since legit sambo in america dosnt barely exist anyway, but, if you are gunna call it sambo, it should have sambo rules..There isnt even a total victory throw in the rules I read...By these rules,you wear gi pants,chokes are legal,etc.... This is like gi submission or something..not sambo... Either way tho, like I said it will help guys get better by being able to compete so atleast that is a plus.. info from the site: UNIFORM: -Kurtka, Jiu-jitsuGi, or Judo gi. Must wear gi pants-Cup, wrestling or sambo shoes optional. Note- Opponents can grab clothes( any part of jacket, belt and pant leg) ROUNDS: One, 5 minute round. One Sudden Death round if needed (1st takedown wins). STYLE: Double elimination.All grappling styles welcome. We train Sambo, BJJ, Judo, Muay thai and Wrestling. We love all the arts and try to make the rules attractive for everyone. WIN BY:Submission - Points(If you accumulate 10 points more than your opponent,the match is over.)Disqualification (2 Fouls or Referee's discretion) POINTS:Takedown: 2 Points(Going from the standing, neutral position directly to a position of advantage;or throwing opponent but you remain standing. Takedown: 1 Point(Throwing opponent to ground and you go with him. Points are given to the fighter on top in any position.If you jump to guard, the other fighter gets 1 point.) Position of advantage: 1 Point(Gaining top mount, side mount, kesa, headward hold down, or the back) Escaping a position of advantage: 1 Point(Going from a disadvantaged position to a neutral position.) Neutral positions include the guard, knee to knee, sitting across from opponent or standing Reversal of position: 2 Points(Going directly from a disadvantaged position to an advantaged position) LEGAL TECHNIQUES: All finishing techniques must be applied in a gradual and safe manner or will result in disqualification. -Chokes and neck cranks -Arm bars, key locks, shoulder, wrist, and hip locks-Leg and ankle locks (all) *Please be careful ILLEGAL TECHNIQUES: Punishment is 1 Point or disqualification, at referees discretion.. -Strikes of any kind. -Hair pulling. Touching the hair or groin. -Body slams on head. Otherwise O.K.. -Biting, fishhooking, or small joint manipulation (fingers, toes, ears, nose, etc..) -Thumbing, scratching, pinching, or pulling skin. -Applying any slippery substance to the body, hair, or uniform. -Unsportsmanlike conduct (Referee's discretion.) *If the ref thinks you're intentionally trying to hurt your opponent using illegal techniques, you're out.
10/25/02 7:08 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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Edited: 25-Oct-02
Member Since: 12-Jun-02
Posts: 526
gee. that sounds... like the McDojo of all sambo tournaments. lets make our own rules and see who is nuts enough to more or less come out and fight in a NHB without actually knowing they are getting into an NHB... though, if people read the rules and still want to partake, thats on them. great way to get people hurt though. thats like having a judo tournament on a gym floor... -Resnick
10/26/02 11:46 PM
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WSF
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Edited: 26-Oct-02
Member Since: 18-Aug-02
Posts: 5
Gentlemen. I do not usually take part in these forums because you don't know who your really chatting with; many times it is a 12 year old kid or someone who has the mentality of one. But I will make one final statement of which I will not respond to. I feel this needs to be said to the new sambo community. Let's start with definition; sambo is self-defense without weapons. The last 20 years or so(of which I have been a great part of in competitions)sambo tournaments have been very similar to judo rules. If you are good at throwing, you could win most AAU sambo competitions. Refs stand you up almost immediately once you hit the ground. Because of the rules, most samboists spend almost all training time learning to throw and spend little time ground fighting. In addition to this, they never practice chokes since they are not allowed in any sambo competition. By origin definition, sambo was devised to teach the Russians how to survive in open hand combat. They took over 30 martial arts and broke them down into combat effective techniques while filtering out the fluff. If you look at older Russian tapes they will demonstrate many strikes, throws, chokes, leg locks galore and arm bars. I am Russian and my instructor Gokor Chivichyan is Armenian and we both teach and practice all submissions. So my question to the new sambo players today is "why would you want to stagnate your training by limiting the techniques of the art?" I have been conducting seminars all around the world for the last 10 years. When I come across a sambo school that is strictly traditional, they are very limited ground fighters. When we open all submissions in rolling with them, they are easy to tap with chokes and arm bars. My seminars at judo schools has been an even easier time tapping them because their ground fighting is almost non-existant. I have students that have won multiple national championships in judo and they get tapped by my students with one year of WSF sambo experience. It's time that sambo starts heading down the right path. The WSF believes that sambo should be THE most complete art for self-defense. We want our students to be able to roll with BJJ, shooto or any style of grappling in competion and win. Right now it is almost a joke how bad samboists that only compete in traditional rules are. It's embarassing to see beginning BJJ guys tapping sambo champions in tournaments; and I have been witnessing this for years. It's time to step up to reality guys...don't let the Scott Sonnons and other purists impede your ability and the sport of sambo. Sambo has been losing popularity drastically for 20 years in this country, while BJJ, shooto, pancrase and shoot boxing are growing. Sambo is the greatest art and we need to train as Harlampiev and our predecessors indended us to train...as a complete fighting system. As for the judo players who claim to be samboists...if you don't want to fight on the ground, stick to judo. Don't call the sambo tournaments that you have been winning sambo. They are really quasi-judo tournaments. If you really want to learn to fight then learn all the submissions and compete in tournaments which allow ALL submissions. Some of you want to know why there aren't any sambo tournaments around anymore. It's because they are boring and because most judo players compete in judo. Some of the lessor judo throwers like to compete in the "sambo" tournaments because they can win under the current rules. Our idea of sambo is to train all aspects of fighting and let's see what you've got.
10/26/02 11:47 PM
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WSF
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Edited: 26-Oct-02
Member Since: 18-Aug-02
Posts: 6
Continuation of previous post... WSF students compete in sambo, BJJ, submission grappling, thai boxing and NHB competions and WIN. And for the guy that says our tournament rules are like NHB and the competitors will get hurt, I ask...do you even train? What techniques could you possibly train to make such a statement? Have you ever seen a judo competition? More people get hurt in judo that any type of ground fighting. Have you heard of gravity? I apologize if this response is harsh but I just can't believe how lame some people are that claim to be martial artists. If you want to show your skills then please show up in Evansville on November 9th. Sincerely, Dr.Darrin Pordash
10/27/02 12:02 AM
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SIUMAC
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Edited: 27-Oct-02 12:04 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 84
Realistic Martial Arts Training Asn
Good post Dr Pordash. I'm really looking forward to the WSF nationals! I had Jermaine in today for a Muay Thai/ NHB seminar. It was more awesome than I had hoped for. Were going to start training together regurly. Thanks for the heads up about him. He says he misses training with you. Vince Fields WSF Instructor WWW.GO.TO/SIUMAC
10/27/02 1:22 AM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 205
WSF, If your students compete in Sambo tournaments and win.. why make up your own bullshit system of rules and call it Sambo? When I went to Moscow in 1998, and fought in the World Student Games, that wasn't sambo I competed in? Nor was it Sambo in Tbilisi, Kaliningrad, St. Petersburg, Aktubinsk, Kstovo, etc. Thanks for showing me the light.
10/27/02 1:03 AM
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QUINCY RICE
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 3928
LOL...Well Doc, you are entitled to your oppinions...
10/27/02 1:50 AM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 206
even if they're wrong :o)
10/27/02 2:32 AM
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QUINCY RICE
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 3936
lol...yep,even if
10/27/02 3:11 AM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 209
Q, Is it just me, or are we agreeing a hell of a lot lately?!
10/27/02 6:19 AM
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Osaekomi
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Edited: 27-Oct-02 06:28 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 872
WSF, Suppose an individual started an event identical to yours and coined it, "Freestyle Wrestling". Does that make it freestyle wrestling? Why don't you just call your event "boxing", "karate" or "greco-roman wrestling"? You can then argue that those sports are lacking because they do not allow chokes therefore you are hijacking their name for their own good. IMHO it would be better to announce a new gi grappling sport with the rules you have set forth. That would attract more interest for your event than labeling it "sambo". It is a mistake to call it "sambo" no matter how you look at it.
10/27/02 6:50 AM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 211
Sounds a lot like the Juko Kai folks.. how they understand the "REAL" Judo that nobody else seems to be doing.
10/27/02 7:53 AM
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dynamo
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 74
In my trips to Russia I train at Sambo 70, Igor Kurinnoy's Boretz School' and the Academy of Sports and Excercise(formerly the Lenin Institute of Physical Education and Sport) I have found that the groundwork was amazing. At my club we spend no less then 50% of our time on groundwork so I think I would know good ground skills when I see it.
10/27/02 8:08 AM
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Samooborona
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 215
Dynamo, 'zactly. To say there's no ground skills is freakin ridiculous. WSF, If our predecessors didn't want us to train in a sport, in order to get the feel for fighting with a live opponent, why did they create the sport? and who are these "multiple national champion" judoka you speak of?
10/27/02 9:19 AM
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Punk Dobbs
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 71
I think Pordash may be correct on one point though. Resnick has probably never even SEEN a judo match. LOL!
10/27/02 10:02 AM
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dynamo
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Edited: 27-Oct-02 10:03 AM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 75
The reason IMO that sambo is declining in the past 20 years is that everybody and his dog is starting their own federation, association, alliance, whatever. The infighting between the judo organizations is bad enough, but it pales in comparison when it comes to Sambo/Sombo. Everything is so fragmented its no wonder. It amazes me that that in the vast majority of these so-called World, Universal, etc. sambo organizations have no Russian/former Soviet Bloc members and when I ask the Russians about it they just laugh. I'm with Todd,Quincy,Walt, and Dobbs---you can call it what you want but its not true Sambo. All this solidarity is getting me all misty "sniff sniff"
10/27/02 10:39 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 12-Jun-02
Posts: 529
i had to go back and actually re-rad the guys posts to see where he taken mention of me not training and never seeing a judo tournament before. "are you done? well, allow me to retort" im a yellow belt in judo and a 4th degree dan in TKD. i figure that if i can earn my 1st dan in judo then i will be able to teach others when i open my ninjitsu school in moronsville, USA. i am all for sambo, in fact if i wasnt so heavily into training for judo i would love to do sambo, that is the god's honest truth as well. in my home dojo there was a fella, Adrian Serrano, who did sambo and traveled the world doing it. He did well enough I guess, made the US world team. i always wanted to compete in sambo with him but never had the funds to do it. i guess the bare facts are that i havent competed in sambo, but i still know enough to realize that Doc here is about the biggest moron in the world. Judo and sambo do go hand in hand, thats why the the former ussr states they still train together, why kashiwazaki was a sambo and judo world champ, why a huge population of the sambo players in the USA are judo guys.. who the hell else has the throwing knowledge? i am all for cleaning up sambo. hell, that might even get me to buy the belted-gi, leather shoes, rulebook and see what i can do. but, there isnt a chance in hell i would do it if somebody like Doc is the man in control. the USJA and Doc should get together. i am sure they would make a great fit. -Resnick
10/27/02 11:36 AM
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QUINCY RICE
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 3939
LOL..I thought the exact same thing samoo, Juko Kai...lol..
10/27/02 12:24 PM
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Osaekomi
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Edited: 27-Oct-02 12:31 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 875
Josh, You would be hanging real tough at any sambo/sombo event in the world. Gripping parameters are real liberal and take a little getting used to and you have to keep an eye open for leg attacks but other than that you are at a world class sambist level already IMHO. Leg attacks and the avoidance of are easy to master when compared to throwing. Your throws, osaekomi, armbars, defense, kuzushi knowledge and tachiwaza are already there.
10/27/02 1:59 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 12-Jun-02
Posts: 531
so, where would a fella go to actually learn the rules to sambo, get one of those funky gi's, the shoes, and find a local event? hehehe.... just a possibility. the leglocks kinda freak me out though, i like my knees and ankels. and, how the hell does the scoring system work? -Resnick
10/27/02 3:31 PM
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FreestyleJJ
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Edited: 27-Oct-02 03:39 PM
Member Since: 04-May-02
Posts: 282
Despite all of the conversation about them calling it sambo when most of you think it isn't sambo, I was wondering what part of those rules listed by Quincey made it NHB? Strikes weren't allowed, really the only difference I saw between those rules and bjj rules were the facts that if you wanted, you could wear wrestling shoes if you want, and they're more liberal, allowing all leg locks. I personally train with allowing all leg locks on a regular basis, so I don't see how it ups the ante that much at all. I've taken one knee injury ever, and that was when I was a complete newbie to leg locks. I would actually prefer those rules over a bjj or judo tournament rules, since I think those are limiting in that aspect. The Abu-Dhabi tournament allows leg locks of any type and I haven't heard anyone attacking them about it? I was just wondering, any help would be good. P.S. I think Sambo jackets are badass by the way. Major advantage over judo jackets since your jacket doesn't come loose from your belt. Plus they just look badass, red ones and the blue ones. hehe
10/27/02 5:05 PM
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Punk Dobbs
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Edited: 27-Oct-02
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 73
Resnick, If you want to learn sambo, I would first suggest at least WATCHING a judo tournament first. One must toddle along before he walks. Your 4th dan in Ho Dup Bap will not prepare you for judo. If, after watching a judo tournament for the first time and you are not too terrified to continue, check out http://www.sombo.org/archives/rules-chart.htm

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