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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Sambo Nationals


11/3/02 12:57 PM
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yusul
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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i don't think vince fields is brainwashed and is reasonable guy whom i would enjoy a chance to train with. however, quincy et al. have brought up legit concerns IMO about the name of the event. i am also curious as to how splinted sambo is in the US? also, if podash wanted to increase the legitimacy and goodwill of his event, he didn't need to attack scott sonnon. and resnick is correct, we all get sick claims of "we beat a judo national/world/galaxy/universe champion", without any proof.
11/3/02 1:15 PM
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Todd Milhoan
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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Yusul, It's RIDICULOUS how many people have gone and started their own organizations...
11/3/02 2:47 PM
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SIUMAC
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Edited: 03-Nov-02 02:52 PM
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 94
Realistic Martial Arts Training Asn
Resnick, A little more respect from you would go a long way. Name calling and dirt slinging are not going to help anyone reach the truth in any discussion/ debate. Agreed? Since you accused me of being brainwashed I will address some of your issues. I first met Dr Pordash several years ago when he was teaching a sambo seminar at the school of one of my Muay Thai instructors (Shawn White- Pan Am BJJ, Muay Thai, and NHB champion). I was extremely impressed not only with Doc's skills, but with what he had to teach me. He deffinetly improved my grappling game immensly in a short time. Thats the main reason I train with him, and continue to. I've never cared to ask him for a resume of who he's trained, that has nothing to do with him making me a better grappler. Maybe he will come on here and tell you since you want to know so bad. I know he's trained Joe Schmidt, who I believed has had a very good judo career, Jermaine Andre, who is a great NHB fighter, andShawn White, but I am not qualified to try and list any champions in judo he's trained since I dont know and have never cared. I was pretty crappy at jacketed throws before I met him and now I have a much better understanding of how they work. I'm still not that good at it since I dont train for jacketed competitions, but I am looking forward to learning more in this area from Doc and anyone else capable of teaching me as time goes on. About him making claims or using the word sambo for insurance purposes or to make more more- if you knew his financial situation you'd know that to be rediculous. He doesnt brag about this and maybe I shouldnt even reveal this... but I'll just say that he does EXTREMELY good for himself in his chirporactic business. When I fly him in for a seminar he does it as pricices rediculously low. He doesnt even charge me anymore for training personally. He's not interested in cash... he has a genuine desire to help spread sambo and grappling in general and is trying to do all he can to further that goal. He is trying to get sambo in the Olympics, which is one of the main purposes of the WSF.
11/3/02 3:08 PM
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Todd Milhoan
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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The WSF is trying to get sambo into the olympics, yet it promotes a bastardchild of a sport, instead of Sambo tournaments? Yeah.. there's a good idea.
11/3/02 3:09 PM
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bjjboxer
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
Member Since: 14-Oct-02
Posts: 61
resnick, What is your story. There is no need to call people "brain washed" and "misguided". I do not even train with Dr. Pordash right now. I train in bjj. I know that the Doc is a good man and trying to do somthing good for the sport of M.M.A. What is the difference what it is called. As long as it brings people together to compete. Tomato/tomoto who cares! If you don't like what he is doing don't take part. If you train in any of the arts of grappling, I bet that you would be hard pressed to find someone with the talent and the skills that Dr. Pordash can teach!
11/3/02 4:07 PM
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WSF
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
Member Since: 18-Aug-02
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Thanks to my students and some of my former students for the kind words. Don't be too concerned about attempting to make sense to some of the people on this forum...they are students of Sonnon or they have no sambo instructor, which is why none of them listed that information when I requested it. Others are bad Judo players who have competed in traditional(boring and dying)sambo tournaments like I did early in my career. For those of you who want to know who I train with; Gokor and Gene are my instructors. When I hear people like yourselves pretend that your instructors are more knowledeable or qualified than he in sambo, I instantly know how lost you are. I am not just a student of Gokor's for the past 8 years but am also a close friend. Our children play together when we train. We are going to Germany, Russia and Armenia next March for a world tour. If you don't know about Gokor, just ask the Europeans and Russians...I get e-mails all the time from them and they consider him a legend. I am Russian in descent myself and have been training 18 years in sambo. One of my past instructors was U.S.team sambo coach Mark Densberger, from which I was given a 4th black in ranking. For those of you who don't like Mark, remember that he was Sonnon's sambo instructor as well. He also gave ranking to Lloyd Ervin and Eric Grove, who, like me made a mockery out of the sambo events we competed in with the AAU. Truth is...the competition is weak. WSF students compete in sambo, BJJ, Judo, Thai boxing, Shooto, Pancrase and NHB. Mr.Fields gave you names of a few of my students. The list is long as we have close to 30 schools internationally now. Joe Schmidt is one of my students, as Vince had mentioned. He is a 5 time national Judo champion, took 3rd in the world sambo championships in Dayton 2 years ago(I coached him at matside)and also won the Arnold Classic BJJ world championships this past March. He also DID beat Milhoan at nationals, and it wasn't close. Quincy admitted that he gets his "ass kicked in Judo". But I'm sure you do well in sambo. That's why you guys are so content with the way things are now. It allows a bad judo player to look good. Why don't you boys step up and compete in other grappling competitions as well.(i.e.BJJ,pancrase,NHB) Then you can say you are a complete fighter. The truth is you won't...because you'd get tapped by a first stripe blue belt in BJJ due to your lack of ground game. My students don't. They win championship in all fighting styles. Do we really need another MARS competition to prove how unprepared the traditional Russian sambo fighters are? If you notice how much exposure Gokor and I are getting these days and how popular our style of sambo is becoming, you'd take part in that and support us. We don't care if you continue the AAU traditional events; so why do you care which rules we allow? Or is that interfering with the rediculously useless and unrealistic ROSS tapes that your organization sells to the unaware beginner grappling community?
11/3/02 4:47 PM
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Osaekomi
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Edited: 03-Nov-02 05:30 PM
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WSF, Who are the bad judo players you are referring to? Josh, Quincy, Dynamo, Punk Dobbs, me, judo guy, Todd are all fellas that have posted on here and I can testify none are bad judo players, conversely very good judo players, especially Josh. Quincy is being modest btw because he does not get his ass kicked in judo but rather he is making a point that he is not a champion judo but rather is a champion in submission grapping and NHB. Forget about Sonnon he does not enter into the argument here so why bring him up. Btw, our club has as coaches and members the Bouchard brothers who are about as good as you can get in sambo outside of Russia.
11/3/02 4:57 PM
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dynamo
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Edited: 03-Nov-02 05:08 PM
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Darrin, I do not believe your skill nor your teaching abilities have been called into question. In fact I have met Vince(Carbondale) and Rusty(St.Louis)and was impressed with their mat skills. My friend Bret has mentioned on this thread that he went to one of your clinics and was impressed. I also read your article in the latest "Grappling" magazine and I liked it. Do I believe your a skilled grappler and coach---YES. I do not know Scott Sonnon but I have several Sambo coaches and they all live in Moscow, Russia. I train with them once a year. Some or all of them will be coming to the U.S. in summer 2003 and I be going back to Russia in 2004. My Sambo Coaches are; Igor Kurinnoy- current World Sambo Champion and current World Sambo Cup Champion. 3x Champion in both events. Head coach Boretz Sambo Club Alexander Yakolev--coach Sambo-70 Coach Vadim---Head coach for the Academy of Sports and Excercise(formerly the Lenin Institute of Physical Culture and Sports). Do I think I could learn something from you---already did in the magazine article. I'm sure you could make my leglocks better. I know there are 2 different World Sambo Championships One is dominated by U.S., French, and British athletes and the other mostly composed of former Soviet Bloc countries. I myself get confused between FIAS and FIAS, Inc. sometimes. I have two contentions however: 1) Belt Ranking in Sambo 2) Calling your event a Sambo tournament--I am sure it will be a tough submission wrestling tournament open to all grapplers which is a great idea-but I am having difficulty calling it Sambo. If I was disrespectful earlier please forgive me--it was not my intent. If you or anybody would like to come to the Russian Clinics next summer or go to Russia in 2004 let me know. BTW I do not make money on this in fact I loose $3000-4000 per trip. Respectfully Submitted, Gregg Humphreys(Dynamo)
11/3/02 5:47 PM
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SIUMAC
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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Realistic Martial Arts Training Asn
Nice post Gregg. Sounds like you've got some awesome coaches! You must be excited about going to to Russia in 2004. Hopefully I will be joining Gokor on his European tour next year and check out the training there... finances depending.
11/3/02 5:49 PM
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yusul
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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"Thanks to my students and some of my former students for the kind words. Don't be too concerned about attempting to make sense to some of the people on this forum...they are students of Sonnon or they have no sambo instructor, which is why none of them listed that information when I requested it. Others are bad Judo players who have competed in traditional(boring and dying)sambo tournaments like I did early in my career." that's funny, considering that there is a national judo team member on this thread, and people like samooborona and milhoan have listed their credentials. quincy rice is also known to have competed in a match or two. and most here haven't trained under or with sonnon. also, i enjoy how you say that everyone who isn't doing sambo your way, is doing "boring" sambo. i was reserving judgement before dr. podash, but your pompous attitude in these threads, unprovoked attacks against sonnon, your paranoia, and your ad-hominem attacks against everyone who disagrees with you shows a large degree of insecurity and arrogance. dr. podash, i wonder who looks better, you attacking sonnon, or sonnon for taking the high ground and not bothering to respond? so you want to bring sambo and grappling styles together, and push sambo for the olympics, as long as it's under you? and as long as you are the one creating the rules? impressive. are you sure you are part of the solution? and no, i've never trained in sambo, i've never trained with scott sonnon. frankly, if i had to choose, it would clearly be sonnon, despite the heady language involved. finally, as is probably in the archives, gokor's credentials (not skills) have been questioned and have never been properly addressed. specifically, claims at being a world judo champion. SIUMAC, sorry for commenting on your instructor, you seem like a good guy, but i call it like i see it.
11/3/02 6:58 PM
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Todd Milhoan
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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Dr. Pordash, Quit spreading BULLSHIT rumors. I fought at 149.5lbs at the 1998 US Nationals. I went home with the national title. I have NEVER, EVER lost a Sambo match to an American. At first you were irritating, now you're seriously pissing me off. Don't try and discredit me by inventing bullshit matches that never happened. If your student and I did fight at the nationals that year, you're correct, it wasn't even close.. as everyone there went home tapping like bongo drums. I'm friends with Scott, and I've trained with him.. Doesn't mean he's my only coach. I'm not even sure why you mention him.. nobody else did. Yusul, Samooborona and I are the same person... I had kirik fix my name yesterday.
11/3/02 8:40 PM
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yusul
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Edited: 03-Nov-02
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my bad.
11/3/02 11:19 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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Edited: 04-Nov-02 10:47 AM
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still didnt list your judo champions... is this becuase there arent any... liar, liar.. pants on fire...? im not sure how to react to your not posting an answer to such a siple question. dont make false claims. having a guy win the AAU nationals in judo isnt a big deal. the AAU is about the weakest possible orgainzation in judo. 90% of the top guys on the USA Judo roster could have won the AAU senior title when they were kids. NOBODY is doubting your ability or knowledge.. just the methods and the extreme madness behind them. a NHB/MMA will NEVER make it into the Olympiad. so, for you to sit there and say it is the goal is just insane. It is also an insult to the other events that are in the Olympics. i know gokor's kids. he has trained some pretty good judo players so far. tough guys who play hard. but Doc sure isnt their coach, that much i do know. I dont know much about LeBell or Gokor being any form of actual judo champions. I know Gokor is a good judo coach, I know LeBell isnt (dont know exactly what LeBell coaches. From the looks of his website it is the WWF???) i truly do hope your grappling event goes well for you. i hope you get to bring all the arts together in the way you want to. too bad a top-notch judo player would never even consider it because the olympics are way, way more valuable then anything you could ever offer. so, go have your wrongly-named event and have a good time with it. just dont call it what it isnt, that makes no sense. give it a name of its own and run with it, maybe you can start a new trned that will make you millions like bjj did for the gracies. but, i doubt it. -Resnick ps. oh yea, i am a shitty judo player, i know that. but i guarantee that i'd be able to hold my own with whatever "judo champions" you have.
11/4/02 10:43 AM
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joemurphy
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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why does everyone think Q would get tapped by a BJJ blue belt? he hung with rodrigo gracie for pete's sake! (it was in one of WSF's long posts, just in case anyone else reads it.)
11/4/02 12:06 PM
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Osaekomi
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Edited: 04-Nov-02 12:07 PM
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Josh, Lebell competed so long ago, early to mid 1950s that you probably do not know too much about him as a competitor. I do not know how successful a coach he is or has been but when he competed he was a phenom. He weighed about 160 or so and was the U.S. Grand champ a couple of times. He competed against the awesome judoka, John Osako, twice. Osako fought at 176. Both times Lebell beat him by ippon, once by sode and once by pin. Wanted to give ya a heads up on this. I know Gokor throws out a bunch of horseshit titles and credentials and that pisses me off because it is not fair to the dude's that really won such titles. I agree with ya about the tough dudes that have sprung from his dojo, all Armenian. That Karapet Parisyan comes to rumble. joemurphy, WSF has no idea how good Q is. Q is one of the premier leg attack guys in the states.
11/4/02 12:38 PM
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QUINCY RICE
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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What is funny is that half the guys who take my classes are BJJ bluebelts...
11/4/02 12:48 PM
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Todd Milhoan
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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Quincy, And they come in and tap you out religiously, right? (insert sarcasm here)
11/4/02 12:56 PM
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WSF
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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A few responses... Resnick: "Liar,liar pants on fire" Truly you have a dazzling intelect. This is why I don't respond to you. Go have a beer. Milhoan: The reason your getting "pissed off" is because children can't control their emotions. I'm really worried. Dynamo: I appreciate your thoughts. Your suggestions will be considered for future events. I do dissagree about the belt system though. It has historically been the only way to run a successful martial arts program in America for commercial schooling. We want big numbers of sambo students and we're getting tons of fighters from many other styles that wish to earn rank. Osaekomi: Your lost. Try throwing with Gokor some time, or even his teen agers. Nobody knows you; everybody knows Gokor. Coincidence? Quincy: You have some good points as well. Some of which I will consider, others that I dissagree with. I believe that we both want what's best for the sport.
11/4/02 1:09 PM
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samboboy
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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Russian Judo
WSF, Gokor is a liar and a fraud, he is no legend except in his eyes and those of his students. You seem to be carrying on his traditions, have fun in your little tournament.
11/4/02 1:10 PM
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joemurphy
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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everybody knows gokor. he's the guy who made up all the crap on his resume. he is pretty infamous for it, and you act like that's a good thing? walt on the other hand, is a guy who gives his all to his students and his sport. resnick is an international level judoka and a funny bastid as well. milhoan I don't know, but I think you're mad at him cause he tapped your guy. what they have in common is that they called you out on your claims! I don't have a dog in this particular fight, and I thought you got jumped on a little unfairly in the beginning of this, but its getting pretty thick in here.
11/4/02 1:41 PM
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Osaekomi
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Edited: 04-Nov-02 02:40 PM
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WSF, I'm lost? How so? Please help me find my way. Are you saying Gokor does not throw out a bunch of bullshit titles and credentials? You are really showing your naivete. Never stated he wasn't skilled or tough so don't put words in my mouth. Btw DOCTOR it is not "your lost". "Your" is not a contraction of "you are". Btw, I know more folks in the various grappling communites than you can count but the only folks that I care really know me are my droogs and that is good enough for me. Conversely, I never heard of your lame ass prior to this thread. I am 52 and I will gladly throw hands with you or Gokor anytime, anywhere. Don't front me you faggot. Btw, I know you cannot possibly have a doctorate in English Composition. Are you a chiropractor? If so, that figures.
11/4/02 1:48 PM
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joemurphy
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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oh shit, I almost fell off my chair laughing. but how do you really feel, osaekomi?
11/4/02 1:58 PM
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Todd Milhoan
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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Walt, By him saying anything negative about gokor's claims, he discredits himself.. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. Pordash, It wasn't intended as a threat. wow. Another child joke. Children can't control their emotions, and delusional old men have problems remembering the past. Your student beat me @ the 1998 nationals, and I'm sure you had to walk 30 miles each way to school, in the snow, uphill both ways. If you honestly have made a mistake, and have me confused with somebody else, thats fine and forgivable. Somehow I don't think that's the case. I've lost a few Sambo matches, and none of them to anyone who speaks english as a primary language. JoeMurphy, I'm a blackbelt in judo under Christophe Leininger, and I'm a greco-roman wrestler at the Olympic training center. I'm a Junior and Espoir world champion in Sambo.. I won the World Student games in Moscow, Russia, and I have placed as high as 4th in the REAL world championships (which are not held in places such as Dayton, Ohio, Orlando, Florida, Billings, Montana, etc.).. which isn't too shabby considering I was the youngest competitor in the tournament.
11/4/02 2:11 PM
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Osaekomi
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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In re: Todd. Anyone who has had any involvement with sambo at all in the U.S. knows Todd's skill level. A good friend of mine, Mike Ostrowski, has been on sambo squads with Todd and he holds him in high regard. Todd is the most successful sambist ever from the states I do believe.
11/4/02 2:13 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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Edited: 04-Nov-02
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Posts: 577
Tod, what is yur weight category in sambo? what are the other weight classes? how does a judo-geek like myself (from sjsu) get started in it? Im honest and serious with my curiosity. i would like ot have a beer actually. but i wont do that until at least 8 tonight-- after i am done training. like i said, the Doc is a liar. He thinks Gokor is the greatest grappler since sliced bread-- and we all know the truth about that. He thinks he has produced judo champions, but refuses to give us any names. in all honesty, he is a guy who has a lot of money, some alright skills (though not enough to make himself a serious international player back in his youth), and the ability to market himself to a bunch of people who dont know any friggin better. He sounds a lot like Phil Porter of the old USJA to me. and, for those of you who know-- that is a major insult. ..as for Mr. LeBell.. Well, he was a pretty talented judo guy back in his day.. too bad he didnt do anything to furhter the sport like he should have. -Resnick

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