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TMA UnderGround >> Chen Style Shuai Chiao? (Video)


7/4/07 1:01 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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An interesting video clip I found:
7/4/07 1:10 PM
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FlashGordon2002
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
Member Since: 05/23/2002
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Yeah, that's typical Chen style "push hands" practice. Sort of like Greco-Roman wrestling. No groundwork but a big emphasis on taking your opponent down with certain restrictions meant to enforce certain tactical doctrines. When I was doing Chen style, the forms were more of a conditioning + body mechanics workout.
7/4/07 1:14 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
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Thanks. Is all Chen style like that, or are there mcdojos in tai chi also? And what about groundwork? I keep hearing of certain styles which emphasize groundfighting, like dog boxing(iirc), but I have yet to see any footage.
7/4/07 4:24 PM
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JesseL
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
Member Since: 03/01/2007
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There is alot of grappling in chem style... Not ground work in the sense but alot of locks and throws. Uprooting your partner etc. I love chen style. It may look slow but it is dangerous used on someone. Like anything you have to find a good teacher that teaches the apps push hands the chin na etc.......hope this helps
7/4/07 4:28 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
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Being a judo/bjj guy I never used to like/respect TCM's. But having matured a little, I'm begining to see ALOT that I didn't see before. I'm getting the itch to try shuai chiao and qinna, and maybe something like chen style if I ever find reputable teachers.
7/4/07 4:39 PM
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JesseL
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
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thats not push hands thats just take downs
7/4/07 11:20 PM
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FlashGordon2002
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Edited: 04-Jul-07
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When I did Chen Style, our instructor called that push-hands. There were different types of push-hands that we did. What was shown in that clip was the most "advanced" we ever got to (I don't know if there's anything more advanced). The instructor called it all push-hands. There's a lot of McDojo stuff in Tai Chi. I have a friend who did Tai Chi and when I tell her about having to hold low stances until I could barely walk, fast/explosive forms practice and the actual practice of applications, she loudly declared that what I did wasn't "real" Tai Chi despite the fact that my instructor was a direct lineage holder from the Chen village and her instructor was some random dude. People want to hear what they want to hear. Especially in Tai Chi, which draws a lot of hippy new-age types.
7/5/07 12:48 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 05-Jul-07
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Here's another cool clip:
7/5/07 7:14 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 05-Jul-07 09:39 PM
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Weird, the video is counting down instead of up, so in this case the sweet throw is at :14.
7/7/07 1:28 PM
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HefX
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Edited: 07-Jul-07
Member Since: 04/19/2003
Posts: 414
Chen style is the oldest tai chi and the least diluted. If you find a Chen instructor, chances are fairly good that he will be the real deal. However, the same cannot be said for Yang style, which is the most popular around the world. The more popular the art, the harder it is to find the real teachers b/c there are so many McDojo's and "health tai chi" instructors. Chen has more explosive movements and lower stances than the other styles. I never studied it, but I would love to. Check out Ren GuangYi or his master Chen Xiao-Wang (the nineteenth generation standard bearer of the Chen Family.) I've read some pretty interesting articles about them. Saw Master Ren demonstrating years ago on the old tv show, Martial Art World. He looked absolutely devastating! http://www.chentaijiquan.com/
7/7/07 10:38 PM
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FlashGordon2002
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Edited: 07-Jul-07
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Ren Guang Yi is the real deal. Chen style is really demanding physically. First of all, all the stances are frickin' low so your legs are getting a huge workout. Then, the fast forms have a lot of explosive movements and they're pretty physically taxing. You see someone doing Chen taijiquan, you'll understand how taijiquan can be a martial art. You can't say the same for watching a bunch of hippies doing some crazy watered down Yang or Wu style taijiquan. I'm not saying that Yang or Wu can't be used to fight but there seem to be a lot of "Aikido types" doing Yang or Wu taijiquan who seem to have this conception that just by doing the forms, they can develop this awesome ability to chi strike someone into submission. The combative applications of Chen style are all about throwing the other guy and probably kicking the shit out of him when he's down. I remember seeing some Chen applications being demonstrated and seeing the hippies in my class being disappointed since none of them involved chi strikes or fire-balls or whatever...they basically involved hitting the other dude really hard or throwing him.
7/7/07 10:54 PM
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smileythai
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Edited: 07-Jul-07
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Very interesting.
7/7/07 11:13 PM
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FlashGordon2002
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Edited: 07-Jul-07
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I will say this about taijiquan. There is something definitely "there" when you train with someone who knows what he's doing but I think the training methods are a little out-dated. As far as I could make out, the forms were principally a means of conditioning and learning proper body mechanics (to maximize efficiency and minimize injuries to self). Working on the movements SLOWLY basically insures that you can catch your mistakes. However, with stuff like weights, etc. you can probably get the same benefits as the form training using olympic lifts and such and then just working applications. Most of the low stance work was basically meant to strengthen the legs and develop balance and we worked on the forms for a long time (a few months) before we even began any competitive training (push-hands/wrestling)...I think working squats, snatches, etc. and beginning competitive training earlier would probably yield the same results, faster, albeit without the mysticism that people seem to look for in taijiquan.
7/9/07 5:02 PM
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JesseL
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Edited: 09-Jul-07
Member Since: 03/01/2007
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yeah Chen style is awesome . Whats nice about Chen style there are a few different forms and all combat tested and aproved! weapons training methods it has it all...... excellent martial arts........
7/18/07 11:19 PM
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WizzleTeats
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Edited: 18-Jul-07
Member Since: 06/07/2006
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I just went to my first Chen style class in 10 years tonight. The 2nd guy getting thrown in the 2nd vid (white guy) is the instructor. The older Chinese man doing the throwing in Chen Yu, is in the Chen Village. Currently the guy for legit Chen style as he's the lineage holder.
7/18/07 11:25 PM
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WizzleTeats
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Edited: 18-Jul-07
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"However, with stuff like weights, etc. you can probably get the same benefits as the form training using olympic lifts and such and then just working applications. Most of the low stance work was basically meant to strengthen the legs and develop balance and we worked on the forms for a long time (a few months) before we even began any competitive training (push-hands/wrestling)...I think working squats, snatches, etc. and beginning competitive training earlier would probably yield the same results, faster, albeit without the mysticism that people seem to look for in taijiquan. " Actually, traditional taiji, bagua and xingyi all used weights, jumping, and weighted weapons extensively as well as the stance training. The "stone lock", which was a stanby of shuai jiao training was a fairly common training implement. That said I think lifts like the bent press, russian twist, overhead squat, etc. can really be beneficial for any martial artist.
7/21/07 11:02 AM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 21-Jul-07
Member Since: 03/12/2002
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The stone lock is simliar to a kettlebell right? I have a freidn that studied chen and I always thought it was great.
7/22/07 8:03 PM
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yusul
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Edited: 22-Jul-07
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my understanding is that there can be many lineage holders. anyhow, that video is impressive for a TMA. more effective resistance in training that most karate or kung fu that i've seen.
7/29/07 7:53 PM
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FlashGordon2002
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Edited: 29-Jul-07
Member Since: 05/23/2002
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^^^^ Yeah, and the weird thing is...everyone has this impression of Taiji being some placid, moving meditation stuff because of all the wacko hippies who learn Yang style and being teaching it in parks and shit.

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