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SoldierGround >> Why is no FBGA guys at PC AL fight


8/24/07 10:12 AM
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mongolike
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Edited: 24-Aug-07
Member Since: 03/18/2007
Posts: 51
 
I can't believe we are here at Fort Benning with RGR RGT, and the Combatives School and the supposed home of the Infantry (and now those other guys that ride in the tank things) and every Saturday night there are the fights in Phenix City, they use a hexagon ring and the rules are basic. It is right on 280 before the 80 merge inside the skate center. GCW (Great Championship Wrestling) no joke we have pandemonium big time wrestling right here in the valley and none of you so called tough guys even go to watch. I don't care what Kansetsu Waza, Kama Sutra moves you know. Nothing beats good, live, big time wrestling with all the drama and beat downs. I mean there are personalities named Scotty Beach (the current Heavy Weight Champ), Death Row and his tag team partner Thug Row, let's not forget the Bull brothers and Johnny Swinger. You are all missing an awesome Saturday night!!!
8/24/07 1:06 PM
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Combat MMA
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Edited: 24-Aug-07
Member Since: 06/11/2002
Posts: 1118
Fort Bragg Combat MMA

When you start using terms like "Watching" and "Wrestling", it does not surprise me that more people do not come out...

There is a MMA event in GA almost every weekend. Why go see "Wrestling" when you can go see actual fights?

8/24/07 4:06 PM
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macpfighter
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Edited: 24-Aug-07
Member Since: 10/28/2006
Posts: 103
No shit. Don't use a word like fight in your thread title and then start talking about Scotty Beach and Johnny Swinger with their fake ass wrestling. The so called tough guys you're trashing are out training and preparing for real fights.
8/27/07 9:27 PM
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mongolike
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Edited: 27-Aug-07
Member Since: 03/18/2007
Posts: 53
Being that one of you has an 82nd patch and the other has Drill Sergeant listed, I can accept your inability to see outside your blinders and detect the total sarcasm and humor in my post. Albeit the GCW is a fun event and it is sports entertainment similar to MMA events, however more on the lines as a Soap Opera vs. a Documentary. Both serve the purpose to entertain one through over exaggerated drama and false hoods and the other through the trials and tribulations of real life and determination. Now if you have some business exposure you might actually see a market open for exploiting. If there is a stable following for a sports entertainment venue in this area for GCW, can it be converted for MMA purposes? Does this market know of MACP or other MMA programs in the area; is there an opportunity for partnership even if extremely loose? In fact I have asked these questions several times at GCW events and not one patron had known about any of the previous MMA events in Columbus or Auburn or any Martial Arts programs besides TKD and Karate Schools. So a small thing learned is there is an un-touched market that may be not wholly converted but exploited at times. It is only a 20 minute drive from the Army Combatives School and MACP is always attempting exposure and wanting more yet in this valley it is relatively unknown. Never mind I will go shine my boots, press my non-press uniform, memorize a catchy phrase, and train for patrol to ambush like everyone else, please pass the Kool-Aid, I must make sure I'm ready.
8/27/07 11:53 PM
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Combat MMA
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Edited: 27-Aug-07 11:57 PM
Member Since: 06/11/2002
Posts: 1133
Fort Bragg Combat MMA

"If there is a stable following for a sports entertainment venue in this area for GCW, can it be converted for MMA purposes? Does this market know of MACP or other MMA programs in the area; is there an opportunity for partnership even if extremely loose?"

I say absolutely not. I have no interest in a partnership with any type of venue for Pro Wrestling? What do MACP and Pro Wrestling have in common? What does a Pro Wrestler and a soldier heading off to the sandbox have in common?

Benning can do whatever they want, but it seems the only "Selling" the MACP should be doing is to the Chain of Command at the various units for the progress of training of the soldiers. We compete to motivate soldiers to continue to train, not to get a public following. I think it is great when the public comes out for our events or when a MACP fighter does well in MMA, but in the end that stuff does not mean anything in the sandbox, and I could not give 2 shits about anything to do with MAC but what the soldiers and the units are getting out of the program for real world training situations.

Amen to the Kool-Aid, but in the absence of Holy Water or Diet Vernors, Kool-Aid may be the only thing there is to drink in the Army, especially us low GT scores here in the 82nd!

8/28/07 9:04 AM
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mongolike
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Edited: 28-Aug-07
Member Since: 03/18/2007
Posts: 55
You are missing my point. Like it or not our army is not run by warriors, or tough guys or even real men. It is run by people who count money, efficiency and popularity. The USMC sponsors WEC, and UFC as with some other venues. They have had some success showcasing some of their fighters and thus they are perceived better in the world of "Hand to Hand". USMC marketing and recruiting has realized this potential market and demographic and is running with it as with WWE and others. The Army is resisting MMA at higher levels due to the fact you have to actually participate and not just follow a checklist and go through the motions. Getting recruiting Command interested with just one or two fighters going to a few local shows but not showcasing them as "Army" is tough. You have to make small steps and show why they should be interested in marketing this product as a recruiting tool, as well as a force multiplier. Funding also depends heavily on public opinion. If it is exposed more then maybe instead of just getting hand me downs from a command at times it can develop or be authorized a direct fund through TRADOC or Recruiting command or even both. Then maybe it will actually become a program people follow and use unlike what I see now is a program followed by some die hards, a few commanders but mostly blown off like NBC training. Like it not what will lead to the overall success is the ability to show either development of revenue or recruiting prospects. That is what the bozos in DC will care about. Without commanders being driven from the top and the bottom (the people actually doing it) this training will eventually fizzle out and without a doubt if we end up with another evil regime leader in the white house and nothing is prepared. Finally it is a fun time to drink beer, and enjoy live comedy sort of like a Red Neck play.
8/28/07 3:31 PM
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macpfighter
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Edited: 28-Aug-07
Member Since: 10/28/2006
Posts: 107
I understand where you're trying to come from Mongo, but there are major issues with your ideas. Number one, I don't see how you can possibly say that the program will fizzle away and be blown off like NBC. This program was started back in 1995 in the local confines of the 2nd Ranger Batt. Here we are 12 years later on the verge of the third annual All Army Tournament, MACP has been implemented into the POIs at the Infantry Captain's Career Course, at various NCOES courses and even in some IET units (props to yours truly and my buddies back at Knox) As far as the recruiting tool, USAREC, and all that DC bean counter jazz, if you're in the position to make changes at that level then go to it brother. What we need to do is continue to develop the program just as Matt Larsen started to. Push it at your local units as high in the chain as you can. When those commanders get bit by the MACP bug and realize how beneficial the program is, they will carry on to their next command. I left a Battalion Commander behind at Knox that was level one certified, used MACP training as his PT session at least once a week, and was scheduled to do level two this month. When that guy make full bird he will have the ability to influence the program over an entire Brigade. I'd say that's pretty good. But hey, go enjoy your beer at the wrestling show. I'm gonna hit the gym and continue to develop my ability to survive on the battlefield.
8/28/07 4:58 PM
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Combat MMA
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Edited: 28-Aug-07
Member Since: 06/11/2002
Posts: 1140
Fort Bragg Combat MMA

"What we need to do is continue to develop the program just as Matt Larsen started to. Push it at your local units as high in the chain as you can. When those commanders get bit by the MACP bug and realize how beneficial the program is, they will carry on to their next command"

JB, I am with you on most of this, with a slight exception on this point.

I agree we need to continue to push it at the local level, and it does makes a difference. Still, something MUST happen at the top somewhere or the Combatives Program will not become a part of being a soldier. For every soldier like us that believes in the program and the benifits, there are 10 soldiers that could not give a shit and would rather avoid it all together.

The great thing about the Army is we can make people do things they do not want to do. We need to get someone up there high enough to make it a priority.

8/29/07 1:57 AM
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mongolike
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Edited: 29-Aug-07
Member Since: 03/18/2007
Posts: 56
I know all about where combatives came from and how it got to where it is now, but I still say the only way it will stay and be driven home and not be the "Tulip phenomenon" of the Army; is to sell it on revenue development and recruitment with survival as the crucible of the program. That Battalion Commander you speak of may be the anomaly and actually push the program in a logical way and not just finger drill the program and place an absurd, unattainable, unsupported, un-resourced, and poorly planned Combatives program on his unit. However for what it is worth I have almost always seen the yeah it is cool to do in TRADOC, but it only gets lip service in the big army. How many Tank Companies do combatives? Dental Companies?, Finance Companies?, SSB's? Maintenance Companies? Aviation? etc..... Yeah the Infantry and Basic Training does it (and not all by any means) but there are close to 11 others for every one Infantry soldier. So yeah it has come a long way but I still see it not anywhere close to being sold. What made 2/75 so awesome was basically everyone in the BN knew it and in 96 or maybe 97 I forget. 2/75 laid the Hammer on 1/75 in countless matches at JRTC. There were PAC Clerks, Cooks, and Riflemen all scrapping and all doing well. That needs to be the whole Army and not just the Big Divisions' select Infantry BNs based on having a few motivated NCOs in the unit. No it needs to change from the top and be pushed from the bottom, and the top only recognizes numbers, money, power, fame, and what job are they being groomed for post-military. Well this can't help them in post military, unless they get involved, no power, no major fame unless they can get credit, that leaves numbers (recruitment) and money (revenue). That is how you talk to and convince politicians, Lobbyists, O-6 and above, and E-9 and above (both of which at the DA or MACOM level). This will also feed their Ego which they develop at that level. Look at that comment earlier by someone on another thread he asked "How do I learn MACP? Join the Marines?" That right there is worth gold for its message about the program. Yes I will enjoy drinking beer, and yelling at the next Red Neck opera, and keep training my son on BJJ because it may not be there for him to learn when he is old enough to enlist, if I can keep him out of the USMC.
8/29/07 10:12 PM
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gryfen
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Edited: 29-Aug-07
Member Since: 11/07/2006
Posts: 15

'evenin gents, I know I'm a little late to the party....

....but I'd like to throw in some random thoughts from the peanut gallery:

1st off: Pass the Kool-Aid, I'm fealing a little parched.

2nd:  The acronyms are just close enough to be transposed, I've done it......and I've trained with both.  I don't sweat it.  MCMAP has the flash.  MACP is the substance.  The Marines can have their belts & pretty style, it won't last without solid trainers.

3rd:  Advertising & sponsorships, I've seen comercials and logos on the matts at UFC events.  We still don't have that kickass fire breathing dragon though.  Wonder when it's contract with the Corps is over.

4th:  Mongo, you're advocating 'top down' enforcement....that's a pipe dream at best.  Some general's mandate may get everyone on the mats, but he can't mandate that the individuals involved give a damn and train hard.  'Give a' Damn' and 'Train Hard' only come from the bottom up.

5th:  If USAREC gets their mitts into the MAC program I'm going to take up golf & heavy drinking!

9/5/07 8:56 AM
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ArmyFighter
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Edited: 05-Sep-07
Member Since: 01/29/2007
Posts: 634

Mongo, Mongo, Mongo!

I've been to and seen the GCW. I've shared in the drinking of beer and cheering of fake wrestling. I've been to the skate rink AND to the little warehouse over on Gentian BLVD. I have the wrestling mask, the cheap shiny belt and some tight pants. (I used to wrestled professionally in Hawaii) But I am not a professional wrestler now. What I am is a soldier, a Level IV Instructor in MACP, a fighter and a huge wrestling fan. But you will not see me at the skate rink much on Saturday night because I spend most of my Saturday nights at Chattahoochee Vally Mixed Martial Arts Academy about 2 minutes away from the skate rink. You know, right there between CVS and Walgreens. I'm there training so that one day, MAYBE, I could be just as lucky as you. Then Ill be able to not train and go watch wrestling on Saturday nights, JUST LIKE YOU!!

I also, along with Aaron Cooper, promoted the last two MMA shows that we had here in Columbus. Dont tell me that the crowd at GCW didnt hear about the fights. I know they did because that was one of the first places I went to advertise. Plus, you know those 3 or 4 loud ass red necks that always sit in the front row at the GCW? Well, their asses were there too! Now tell me that the GCW crowd didnt know.  I think that you know better than to come on here and try to "troll" people into going to GCW so that you werent the only jerk that doesnt train watching grown men sweat and grunt. I do that too, but not as close. Quit being a homo and train to finish the fight instead of trying to get the rest of us to be Supra-ghey like you!


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