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SoldierGround >> Peopl do not like our pass!


8/27/07 2:51 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 27-Aug-07
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Wow, having heard this sooo much lately. People that do not train military butdo train, seem to complain the most about the level on guard pass. I do not love the pass but I know why it is there and why things are this way. I think it is a great learning tool. Why do guys think that soldiers are going to get triangled? Al Qaeda is not a Bjj hotspring. Fucking sick of all these "experts" .
8/27/07 3:01 PM
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macpfighter
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Edited: 27-Aug-07
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What up Jason???? I hear bitching about the level one pass all the time when I'm teaching. I mostly chalk it up to slow processing/laziness to learn and perfect all the steps. The "experts" that you speak of must know something about Al Qaeda that we don't. On another note, can you shoot me an email at yahoo? I need an address to mail a pic to that my wife took of me and Chris before our fight in April. Thanks, bro. Take care. Jimm
8/27/07 4:08 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 27-Aug-07
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The problem is when you already have been doing bjj, you only look at it from your own perspective, as the hobbyist or competitor. email it to admin@cyclonemma.com
8/27/07 11:55 PM
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Combat MMA
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Edited: 27-Aug-07
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Fort Bragg Combat MMA
I love the pass, and think it is perfect for the Level I course. It is the same pass I was first taught in BJJ, and still use it today.
8/28/07 2:44 PM
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BigDaddyPerkins
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Edited: 28-Aug-07
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No worries, no AlQueda has even put me in the guard....fucking losers, would someone please give Haji a bluebelt so he will flop on his back and put me in the guard. I will say, crazy Iraqi running at you + captain kirk = Airborne Iraqi.
8/28/07 4:17 PM
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Combat MMA
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Edited: 28-Aug-07
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Fort Bragg Combat MMA

JR,

Why do you hate the pass? Out of curiosity, why do you think it is taught?

8/28/07 10:37 PM
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Combat MMA
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Edited: 28-Aug-07 10:43 PM
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Fort Bragg Combat MMA

My perspective on the pass...

My guess is it made it's way into the program because one of the "G" brothers (We don't use the G word around Matt, it makes him mad) suggested it. This was the pass they were teaching about that time to new students. Like I said, this is the pass I was taught (and at the time it was called the "Gracie Pass").

I am also guessing the reason it stayed in the program was for one very simple reason, to teach POSTURE. Beyond fight strategy, posture is one of the most important lessons to teach the new students, especailly when we only have a 40 hour course to lay a foundation for the Level I Modern Army Combatives program.

Immediately, right off the start of the course with Drill #1, the soldier/student realizes that if he does not posture up, he is going to be in a situation that he may get submitted. Basically, thru negative reinforcement, the student is taught a great lesson about posture.

On the BJJ side, as a white belt and a blue belt a rarely used tis pass. I hated it, as when I tried it, I lost that sense of "control" over my opponents position. Only later as a purple belt, and now as a Brown belt, did I start to use the pass in my own game. Nowadays, it is a central part of my guard passing, especially when rolling with other higher belts. If you know what to expect (such as the triangle), be preparred to counter immidiately, and you will find it is a great pass.

JY

8/29/07 11:02 AM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 29-Aug-07
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Jeff, totally understand what you mean, you have to bait the guy to throw the triangle. If you look at the program in it's entirety, you can understand why this pass is good for learning.
8/29/07 9:29 PM
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macacoboy
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Edited: 29-Aug-07
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Jason and Jeff, I just wanted to let you know myself and ford never use the triangle. So please never use this pass on me.
8/30/07 6:14 PM
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Jay-dog
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Edited: 30-Aug-07
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I know in the honor grad tourney at the end of level 1 I waited on that pass and won with a triangle twice.
8/31/07 11:29 AM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 31-Aug-07
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Of course this is my number one pass. Not near knee through like you may have heard:) Hey, the week of the all army, I'll be there to train.
9/4/07 2:01 PM
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TheGroundFighter
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Edited: 04-Sep-07
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The pass is not bad, when done correctly. It's only a "triangle feeder" when the individual has poor posture and allows himself to drop his head and push his hips backward while executing the pass. If you teach it right, they will learn it right, then they can teach it....etc.etc.etc Groundfighter
9/4/07 4:57 PM
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TheGroundFighter
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"and hips are back at that point" That is when it is important to keep the correct posture. Allowing the hips to go backwards is the opposite of good posture and causes the fighter to lean forward, giving up his base as well as allowing the triangle to close.
9/4/07 5:05 PM
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TheGroundFighter
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Here, maybe this will help me explain. In the first picture, notice Matt's posture. Also his right elbow, tucked tight while maintaining pressure on the left leg of his opponent.

 

In the second picture, Matt maintains his posture, keeping his hips close, not back and away, while maintaining pressure on the left leg of his opponent, reaching for the far lapel with his left hand, keeping constant pressure on the bottom fighter.

The triangle cannot be completed without the left leg and by the time the opponent gets the leg free, Matt will have already transitioned to the side, dropped his shooulder to allow the leg to fall and taken the side control.

 

Figure 4-6. Knee in the tailbone, step 4.

 

Figure 4-6. Knee in the tailbone, step 4 (continued).

9/5/07 7:49 AM
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AsiaI
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Edited: 05-Sep-07
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The G3 (Gracie Gift Gaurdpass) is generally despised overall in non Gracie camps.
9/5/07 6:19 PM
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SFC Matt Larsen
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Edited: 05-Sep-07
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I should probably point out here that not even one Soldier has been choked out by an enemy combatant with the triangle in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The criticism of the basic guard pass comes from those who's primary goal is to produce good sport BJJ fighters. This is not the goal of MAC. Their criticism, that they are not the most effective sport BJJ technique, can be applied to almost all of the basic techniques. When was the last time you saw someone who knew how to ground grapple, for instance, give up the straight arm bar from the mount the way it is shown in level one. If I were trying to train good sport fighters I would teach how to set up the arm bar against someone who knows it. In other words if my goal was the same as that of most BJJ teachers I would do something similar to what they are doing. The level one techniques serve to educate new Soldiers about the fundamentals of fighting. They are primarily important as a training metaphor. For example, when a new student watches UFC one on day one of the level I course, (is that redundant enough for you?) they are just looking at people beating on each other and they are mystified at how Royce is able to win. By the time they watch modern MMA on day four, they understand the language of fighting. They may not know the techniques the fighters are using but they understand the fights and what each should be attempting to do. The question then is not what the most effective technique is. The question is what technique the students learn the most from. In fact, I would argue that the act of passing the guard is only important from a training perspective. It is in attempting to both pass and defend the guard that the most learning takes place from the perspective of gaining feel, timing etc. Now ask yourself how many techniques our students learn based on the basic guard pass, sweeps, chokes, joint attacks, even the other ways to pass all grow out of the basic techniques. MAC must be a holistic learning system for both the individual fighter and the unit. By the way, it is great to see all of you talking about the program and how we can improve it on here. Matt
9/5/07 9:59 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 05-Sep-07
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It's only a problem if we go to war with brazil:) Until then...
9/6/07 8:55 AM
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TheGroundFighter
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I say good points all around, however, one last thing on any guard pass, sweep or position. Until you attempt them in full battle rattle and not a gi or BDU's, you will not get the full effect of the technique ro the way it is taught in L1-L4. The addition of just a flak vest will sufficently inhibit the triangle choke if the opponent does not have oddly long legs. :)
9/6/07 3:26 PM
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JasonKeaton
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^that is right!
9/6/07 4:53 PM
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ArmyFighter
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Edited: 06-Sep-07
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Fuck passing the guard! Just punch em in the face till he gives up his guard. THATS how I roll!! Word!?!
9/6/07 5:56 PM
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TheGroundFighter
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^^^That'll do too
9/7/07 3:07 PM
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macpfighter
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Edited: 07-Sep-07
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"Just punch em in the face till he gives up his guard" That's what I'm talking about!! Ground-n-pound baby!! Especially when I got a kevlar handy!
9/7/07 3:16 PM
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BigDaddyPerkins
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Edited: 07-Sep-07
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plus Jason gets to keep putting his hands between guys legs.
9/7/07 10:05 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Edited: 07-Sep-07
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Hey, as long as you don't make eye contact..
9/8/07 4:05 PM
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BigDaddyPerkins
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Edited: 08-Sep-07
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if jason is making eye contact he is kissing you.

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