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JKD UnderGround >> Nov Aunkai Seminar


10/23/07 11:42 AM
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John Frankl
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Edited: 23-Oct-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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It's all good. I'm not a keyboard warrior, and, more importantly, I never used that terminology to describe anyone else. I also said that I would stop by, on my dime, when I am in Tokyo, and video the training session. I don't expect this to be a challenge match; I expect it to be a training session. If I drop out during the PT or tap during the sparring this will all be available to anyone who wants it, unedited. I admit that I am only going on what your people have chosen to post on Youtube to represent your teacher and organization. Of course I have no way of knowing what other sorts of training you do, but going on what was posted by YOUR GROUP on Youtube, I see essentially Aikido and Tai chi. If these clips are not representative of how you actually/usually train, just post some that are. Easy. John
10/23/07 10:10 PM
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Burton
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Edited: 23-Oct-07
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JKDU--MMA For The Street, BJJ, Kali
I would just like to note, as John alluded to, if someone is going to post video to demonstrate fighting ability, why not post video of actual fighting? In other words, let's see some application against a skillful, RESISTING opponent. Note also that the end of the first video said: "The Aunki method is built around a set of mostly solo exercises." Very difficult to become a good fighter doing solo exercises. Nothing against the instructor, as I would love to see how those techniques are applied in real time. I will be the first to buy the DVD is a clip is shown with some realtime application. Aloha!
10/23/07 11:53 PM
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edg176
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Edited: 23-Oct-07
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John, Thanks for the advice, I'm cross posting to the BJJ forum.
10/24/07 12:18 AM
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Upyu
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Edited: 24-Oct-07
Member Since: 10/17/2007
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John, Hope you can make it, and sorry for the Keyboard warrior comment. I've gotten plenty of guys that've made similar comments but then never shown up. If you do show up, I guarantee I won't be lumping you in with the lot ;) Burton: That vid was done by an old old student. At the time, Ark was mainly focused on the conditioning aspect, since he prefers to condition/rework/rewire the body in a specific manner before introducing contact exercises. Honestly I think this is the part where most people jump the gun. There's a specific way of generating power that most people aren't aware of, but it takes time in the beginning to rewire the body to move like that 24/7. If you jump headfirst into Sparring then it only takes that much longer to accquire that particular body skill. While Solo Conditioning Exercises are important, they still don't replace sparring and contact work with other students. But they're done in a specific manner. And yes we've been out and about working it with different groups outside of the Aunkai ;) FWIW Melvin: Yup, anyone is always welcome to drop by. We practice generally from 7-9pm Thurs/Saturday off of the Seibu Ikebukuro Line at Fujimidai. Hit me up at drnknupyu@gmail.com if you want to drop by sometime. We'll be out of the country from Nov. 1-14, and this thursday there's no class, but any other time you're welcome to come ;)
10/24/07 9:52 AM
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John Frankl
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Edited: 24-Oct-07
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Apology accepted. I have been guilty of writing things here that I later regretted, and I have also apologized (and Burton, for one, was gracious enough to accept). The internet is great for communicating with people all over the world, but the lack of face to face communication often makes us more aggressive than we would otherwise be (sort of like some people get while driving). That said, please do post some footage of the non-solo training, sparring sessions, and reactions of visitors. It will potentially make things a lot clearer, and that would be very good for both sides. Best, John
10/25/07 6:34 PM
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Siciliano
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Edited: 25-Oct-07
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Rolando, Oops! I didn't mean to put you in the limelight pare. What you define "exchange of information" is what I call "testing". In a sense, I believe I "tested" your Savate and I didn't go home disappointed. I "tested" your Bowie knife fighting, and I found it useful. I "tested" your trapping - chisao and centerline, and it opened my mind to this very misunderstood aspect of the martial arts. On a side note, you failed to "test" my dip the first time, and your in-laws devoured it and left nothing for you. ;)
10/29/07 1:55 AM
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Prik Khee Noo
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Edited: 29-Oct-07
Member Since: 07/09/2001
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The guy Akuzawa Minoru reminds me of the most is Peter Ralston. I'm tempted to post this on Tim Cartmell's site for his opinion.
10/29/07 3:26 AM
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Tball
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Edited: 29-Oct-07
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Peter Ralston Is the the American Aikido/Kung fu guy?
10/29/07 11:58 PM
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John Frankl
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Edited: 29-Oct-07
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He wrote Effortless Power and some other stuff. I think he may have been a student of Wong Jack Man (sp?), the guy who "fought" Bruce Lee. I don't remember him making huge claims about fighting...more like winning some stuff in Taiwan, which, by definition, is with other kung fu guys. To me this is very different from saying you have no problem dealing with every professional MMA guy who comes through your door. John
11/27/07 6:09 PM
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ironmongoose
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Edited: 27-Nov-07
Member Since: 04/17/2002
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Is the English word for Aunkai "De Chau"? (to borrow an SBG bit)
7/18/08 9:20 AM
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melvinferd
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Edited: 07/18/08 9:21 AM
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a new clip is up ... http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=wbvipmVYGzA
7/18/08 4:36 PM
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FatBuddha
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*puts bag of popcorn in microwave*
7/19/08 10:52 AM
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RMACKD
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http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=701
Found an interview with the head instructor. He claims to have beaten many shootboxers and student of Andy Souwer.
7/19/08 10:39 PM
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John Frankl
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 Always consider the source. I personally would not look to Aikido Journal for reliable information about "tooling" shootfighters. He also mentions "CroCop" and "Sylva," because they are way in his head. Do you think CroCop is worrying about/mentioning Tai Chi instructors in his interviews?

It is also interesting that he has plenty of video footage of him "tooling" his own students, in one-step sparring, of course. But he has no footage of him actually sparring with anyone who appears to be resisting, let alone knows anything.

That said, people do what they want to do. He will teach the people who want to learn what he has to teach. And those people will believe what he tells them. And I am cool with that.

John
7/23/08 2:28 AM
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Asura
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John Frankl - shootfighters. He also mentions "CroCop" and "Sylva," because they are way in his head. Do you think CroCop is worrying about/mentioning Tai Chi instructors in his interviews?



John,

Thought I would clarify some things about this post since I think their were some misunderstandings.

First, yes he did make the rounds at the shootboxing gyms back in the day, and some of the the people he sparred with were closely related to Ceasar Takeshi.
He only mentioned Andy Souwer as a reference point, he wasn't saying he sparred with any of his students.

2nd, Crocop, Silva etc.
He never said that he would "beat" them.
It was simply a reference point again.
His point was that he wouldn't change his training regimine just because he was going to step into the ring. He's hardwired to move his body in pretty much only one way. If it works it works, if it doesn't, then you go back and train. What he "does" doesn't change based on who he fights. There's a logical reason to this and mainly has to do with rewiring how we move at a fundamental level.

All this being said,
there were plenty of initial naysayers that've showed up, including Kevin Leavitt (look for him on Aikiweb), an instructor of Army Combatives, and posted about his experiences with Ark and Mike Sigman.
Can these skills make you a better fighter?
Sure.
Can these skills make you a fighter? No.
Like anything, these skills and fighting are separate to a degree. Melding them is where you start to get different approaches and methodologies. Some favor a longer approach than others. There are solid reasons behind why some of the "traditional" methods take so long. It's all about conditioning and rewiring.
Myself, I think that fighting/sparring should be introduced relatively early on as possible, since integrating the skills with experience isn't something that happens in a couple of months.
But it isn't something that takes years to accomplish either

John:
Like I said before, if you ever make it out to Tokyo you're welcome to drop by class and feel him out for yourself and get an idea of what the training regimine is like.

Personally I'd take circuit training and hitting the bag over what Ark has his students do anyday. The training can be physically excruciating at times, not to mention physically frustrating. If you can develop the skills, it does and can give you a significant edge though. But IHTBF (it has to be felt) to be understood.
8/6/08 10:09 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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GenjuroX - I am one of Akuzawa's students here in Tokyo, and I can personally vouch for his skills.He is, in a word, unstoppable. Bring whatever you like, I can practically guarantee he will wipe the floor with you when push comes to kick in the face. If you walk away unblemished it's because he let you. He's been through a lot of shit to get where he is, and he has the scars to prove it.As for the trip from Korea, hell man, forget the seminar if the cost is too high...just fly into Tokyo and come to the regular class, and promise to spread the word if you learn something. The YouTube vids are good, but there's no replacing the real thing.Just go. You won't be disappointed.Adam


Frankl is a BAD BAD man! i would pay money to see this guy try to "wipe the floor" with him.
6/21/10 12:42 AM
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backbend
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I know this is an old thread but did anyone from here actually go and meet with this guy? I'm going to be in Osaka later in the year for work and am wondering if it's worth my time and money to stop in Tokyo or not.
6/21/10 2:03 PM
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The Gimp
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What makes this interesting to me is not the method of fighting that this guy may use, but the principles behind what he's teaching.

There are several people/groups - including Aunkai, Scott Sonnon, and Mike Sigman - who claim that they understood and can teach the biomechanical principles behind what people call, variously, internal power, fa jing, or ki. In other words, the "mystical" side of the martial arts.

These people usually claim that the methods are fairly simple, but must be "felt" and take a lot time to develop proficiency.

It would be interesting to see if these claims are true or to talk to someone who has experienced them firsthand. Anyone here ever had the opportunity?

One guy to talk to would be Tim Cartmell. he's a BJJ Black belt and also very accomplished in the chinese internal TMAs. I wonder what his perspective would be.
6/22/10 12:55 AM
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backbend
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Yeah I agree that this sort of stuff needs to be felt and I've yet to hear any reports from any MMA practitioner who has felt Aunkai. Not saying it hasn't happened but if it has none of it has come back to my ears. In any case I have no right to complain since I'm going to be in Osaka and may as well dish out some extra bucks to see if this guy has anything. If he does then I gain something and if not well at least I can tick him off my list. I just thought after this thread that at least one of the MMAers here would have checked him out by now.
7/27/10 2:03 AM
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edg176
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Backbend,
A guy from the bullshido forums who practiced MT and grappling did go to Aunkai. He wrote up his experiences here:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26158&page=15

I don't live in Japan but I do talk to people in Aunkai pretty regularly. If you are interested in checking out the class and need details on time/location please feel free to PM me here and I will get you the info.
8/1/10 9:43 AM
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The Gimp
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Edited: 08/01/10 9:44 AM
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BTW I believe that some high-level exponents of BJJ have developed some of these skills unconsciously.

For example some guys' posture while inside the closed guard just feels *impossible* to break down - like trying to break the posture of a five-foot diameter tree trunk - even when they don't brace themselves with their hand(s). They also feel super super relaxed while they are doing this.

I don't know if this is just a super-strong core or the type of perfect body mechanics whole-body connection that "real deal" IMAs purportedly teach.

I do know that it "feels different" from simple alignment and strength.

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