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Health & Medical UnderGround >> Kneecaps do not track right


11/19/07 12:21 AM
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SpiritHorse
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Edited: 19-Nov-07
Member Since: 12/21/2002
Posts: 493
 
I found out a few months ago that I have flat feet and as a result of this my kneecaps don't track right. The funky tracking and lots of workouts without the proper shoes have encouraged arthritis in both of my knees. I am 29 years old. Does anyone have experience with this kind of thing? :(
11/20/07 12:56 AM
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csw0101
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Edited: 20-Nov-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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I have heard this actually from my doctors. I have dislocated my left patella several times and had an op to fix it. I was told by my orthopaedic surgeon to see a podiatrist to fix my flat feet otherwise it would cause problems with my knee after the surgery. I got some orthotics for my shoes (not cheap) and my knees seem fine so far (touch wood). My op was over 10 yrs ago.
11/20/07 1:04 PM
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mallard
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Edited: 20-Nov-07
Member Since: 09/12/2006
Posts: 94
talk to an orthopaedic doctor about it and he'll be able to help a lot. There are cretain types fo knee braces that will correct the placemant of the patella
11/28/07 11:46 PM
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Technician
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Edited: 28-Nov-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Sounds like chondormalacia patella or CMP for short. Unfortunately, there isn't much in the form of treatment to "correct" this problem. Conservative management and exercise may help with your pain and discomfort. Surgery is an option but results are not always guaranteed. You should first discuss this with your family doctor and obtain x-rays of your knees, and discuss various treatment options. If you do opt to see an orthopaedic surgeon, you will most likely undergo further imaging studies in the form of MRI or CT and discuss more invasive treatment options. Good luck.
12/13/07 9:17 AM
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Lurken
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Edited: 13-Dec-07
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surgery is not the cure. been there done that. keep your weight down and stick to low impact exercises. If you find any miraculous solutions lemme know. I have had this problem even when very strong with balanced strength and flexibility in the quads, hams, glutes.
12/17/07 10:33 PM
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SpiritHorse
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Edited: 17-Dec-07
Member Since: 12/21/2002
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Hey Lurken, I am in the same boat I have strong enough legs with no imbalances (according to the P.T.)and good flexibility. I have orthodic inserts for my shoes and I have two kinds of knee braces. I have a hard pair and a soft pair. The P.T. encouraged me to squat but to only go a third of the way down (I used to squat deep) I use the hard braces if I am going to do squat/lunge type of movements. I have found that doing light high rep leg extentions with a pause on the extention and slow negative has helped. I have also started to a variety of hip abduction kind of movements. Like you said the impact stuff is mostly off limits. I can still train MMA but I am a bit limited now. For the stand up I just about have to wear my soft braces but for ground work the braces get all messed up I already tore one up. However, I found that I can get away with grappling with out the braces but I can only do this once maybe twice a week. Thats it no more everyday martial arts for me. Sux but I guess its better than never getting to do it. I will let you know if I have any miraculous discoveries I would appreciate it if you would let me know if you figure anything out.
12/18/07 11:50 AM
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Lurken
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Edited: 18-Dec-07
Member Since: 03/02/2004
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Will do. I had the kneecaps shaved down, they were shredded, looked like crab meat. There was already some wear on the femur from the friction. Sux. The doc could not figure it out, I had big strong quads at the time. My right leg is just a fraction shorter than the left. I am flat footed also. WT? the strange thing about flat footedness. I saw a military study years ago that said flat footers have less foot injurys. I have never had foot or ankle problems? stretching always helps a little. the right always pops when squatting or rowing. I am of the opinion tha some people just don't have good lube in their knees:) I am presently mega dosing glucosamine. no effect so far. I am considering aflutop and adequan. Some bodybuilders have had great success with that stuff.
12/18/07 8:42 PM
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SpiritHorse
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Edited: 18-Dec-07
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I have rolled my ankles many times and never injured them and I have never really injured my foot except once or twice throwing a kick and my opponent steps back just enough to make the top of my foot hit there leg instead of my shin but even then its not bad. I have been taking gulcosamine for almost a year now and fish oil and I am not convinced that it has helped much its hard to say. I have thought about the brand Flexin but its expensive and I am in grad school right now and cant afford it.
1/1/08 9:02 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 01-Jan-08
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"I am considering aflutop and adequan"

I thought about that for post-career use. Those are illegal for competition use I assume?
1/4/08 2:59 AM
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JasonE
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Edited: 04-Jan-08
Member Since: 12/28/2007
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I've seen good bodywork combined with appropriate exercises and stretching do wonders for flat feet. As the arch is restored, the tibia will articulate more normally with the femur, and the patella will be able to start tracking more normally. Bodywork is key here. You want someone skilled in Rolfing, Structural Integration, or something similar. They will be able to work with your connective tissues so that the exercises and stretching you do will be more effective. Active Isolated Stretching and Strengthening has lots of material specifically for flat feet and patellar tracking. You can do most of it for yourself once you know what to do. AIS practitioners may be trainers and/or therapists of any type. Surgery will address some of the issues in your knees, but will not correct the flat feet which are the source of your problems. Fix the problem at the source and you may not need surgery. Best of luck! Jason Erickson www.CSTMinnesota.com
1/5/08 12:00 PM
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SpiritHorse
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Edited: 05-Jan-08
Member Since: 12/21/2002
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Thanks Jason! I will check out your site. As of right now I am a Graduate student and my only real access to medical care it the V.A. so I am a bit limited.
1/7/08 12:53 PM
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Lurken
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Edited: 07-Jan-08
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but will not correct the flat feet which are the source of your problems. Fix the problem at the source and you may not need surgery. why is the first time i have ever heard this? i'll check into the rolfing and arch supports. Shoes with arch supports are very painful for me.
1/9/08 9:02 AM
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Lurken
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Edited: 09-Jan-08
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I thought about that for post-career use. Those are illegal for competition use I assume? Gray area at the present. Adequan is for horses. Doc can not prescribe. not illegal to possess.A lot of vets shoot themselves with it cuz it makes their old bones feel good. Adequan is just not scheduled nor is it a controlled substance. same kinda deal.
1/15/08 8:52 AM
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Mozzer
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Edited: 15-Jan-08
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"I have heard this actually from my doctors. I have dislocated my left patella several times and had an op to fix it." Ditto - I had several lateral pattellar dislocations over a period of 4 years. I had my knee reconstructed in December 2006, but never saw, or was recommended to see, a pediatrist. I might well check out that course of action though as my tendancy to walk on the outsides of my feet was picked up on by a physio I saw. P.S. It's a bitch, eh? Mine was also the left side. What procedure did you have to rectify it?
1/15/08 11:52 AM
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Lurken
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Edited: 15-Jan-08
Member Since: 03/02/2004
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My knees feel great for the last couple of days. could it be the 3/4 gallon of water per day that I have been drinking? Does being hydrated help joints? I've been wanting to do squats all morning.
1/20/08 8:04 AM
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Technician
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Edited: 20-Jan-08
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"I've seen good bodywork combined with appropriate exercises and stretching do wonders for flat feet. As the arch is restored, the tibia will articulate more normally with the femur, and the patella will be able to start tracking more normally." This simply is not true. Foot arches will not restore once they have dropped. And there is no way the tibia will articulate "more normally" with exercise. Proper exercise strengthens muscles and provides good support around the articulations that they surround. If you have flat feet, you should be assessed for in-sole orthotics, to aid in maintaining the proper alignment of your feet. If you are to engage in strength training exercises to rehabilitate your knee (which I highly recommend you do), stay away from leg extensions and hamstring curls. Squats, split squats and deadlifts will cause less aggravation to the knee joints and are better suited for lower extremity exercises.
1/20/08 11:14 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 20-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/28/2003
Posts: 32138
Guys its a horrible injury to have. But I swear to you all, working that quad like a mad man, getting the appropriate orthodics and seriously doing all you can will make a huge difference.

If you let it keep happening youre screwed. You gotta do a rehab program which I realize is rough for an adult whos busy.

But 3 sets of 20 single leg leg lifts 2x daily 5-6 days a week will help a ton with keeping it from happening.
1/21/08 2:46 AM
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JasonE
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Edited: 21-Jan-08
Member Since: 12/28/2007
Posts: 13
Technician - I do not dispute your professional expertise. Perhaps you can shed light on some recent experiences: In the last year I have seen three cases in which arches were largely restored through a combination of bodywork, stretching and exercise. All three individuals reported reduced discomfort and demonstrated improved tracking of the patella. In these three cases, I was solely a witness. The bodywork, stretching, and exercise were administered by others, including PTs, chiros, and bodyworkers. Orthotics were employed in all three cases, but two individuals no longer need them (per their health pros). The third went through 2-3 different orthotic fittings in 7 months. Thanks in advance for your thoughts! Jason Erickson www.CSTMinnesota.com
1/30/08 7:16 PM
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Technician
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Edited: 30-Jan-08
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Hi Jason, I cannot explain such results. I think it is fantastic if you are able to attain this level of restoration, but according to my training and experience, it is anatomically impossible to correct proper tracking of the patella once a diagnosis of CMP has been established due to the degeneration of the affected joints. Pain is a symptom and can definitely be managed with soft tissue work and adjuntive therapies and devices such as foot orthotics, but it is highly unlikely that the anatomical structures actually shift in position and maintain this shift on their own. But as I said, if you can keep getting these results with your work, keep doing what you are doing, just don't promise or guarantee success as one bad case can easily ruin the reputation that you build for yourself in your community. Cheers.

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