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Wrestling UnderGround >> Wrestlers and Catch Wrestling


12/29/07 12:56 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: 29-Dec-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 112
 
It seems that with all the high school, and collegiate wrestlers out there, wanting to get into submission wrestling, and/or MMA, that they would flock to CACC? Being that it's wrestling-based, with the submissions added in. Most wreslters hate wearing the gi, so CACC seems to be the perfect submission style for them. I guess the rebirth of CACC hasn't produced enough places to train CACC. Hopefully, in the near future, this will change. It seems that it could turn into a huge movement, just as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was.... Any thoughts/comments?
12/29/07 7:16 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: 29-Dec-07
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Sounds like a smart idea. What kind of submission training have you done so far?
1/2/08 12:16 PM
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Ausgepicht
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Edited: 02-Jan-08
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"I guess the rebirth of CACC hasn't produced enough places to train CACC." That about sums it up.
1/2/08 1:12 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: 02-Jan-08 01:19 PM
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Well, Jake is making a great effort to change that, by holding his SW certifications. Regular people, all accross the country, learning about the art, and teaching it in their community. That's where it has to begin. And not just in the major cities. I think/hope '08 will be a big year for Catch Wrestling!
1/2/08 1:47 PM
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Ausgepicht
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Edited: 02-Jan-08
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Also would like to give honorable Mention to Japan's Combat Wrestling. Not sure if it's still going on, but IMO it has the Spirit of Catch.
1/2/08 2:46 PM
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parklife
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Edited: 02-Jan-08
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Catch hasn't really "caught" on yet.. I think Paulson, Barnett, Ken and Frank Shamrock all teach a form of catch.. they essentially all trained in Japan in a direct line under Karl Gotch.. I know Frank calls it "submission wrestling".. I think Barnett actually calls what he does as "Catch" I have talked to the USA Wrestling people.. and they are currently introducing grappling to college and universities this year with high school to come in 2009 or 2010. I would stay away from Cecchine or Furey just because there is too much negativity around them.. stick with people who actually compete and have trained..
1/2/08 3:26 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: 02-Jan-08 06:07 PM
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If USA Wrestling would get involved with it, they could really help the cause; assuming they have the right people leading the program. What Jake Shannon has to offer, other than his passion for the art, is an actual system of wrestling, based on the original rules of CACC, which Karl Gotch advised him on, among other great wrestlers. This is the foundation for a new era. Josh Barnett is the only person,(American) to my knowlage, who proudly carries the torch for CACC. Yes, Frank & Ken were both trained by Gotch deciples, but they have never 'claimed' to be CACC, the way Josh does. Having world class fighters/grapplers, use, and endorse CACC, is a big factor, towards CACC gaining more acceptance; not the ONLY one, but a big one. IMHO.
1/2/08 7:24 PM
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parklife
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Edited: 02-Jan-08
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I think CACC is going to be called grappling.. I think Renzo Gracie is on the board for either FILA or USA Wrestling.. don't remember which one.. for the submission program.. We shouldn't be going in the jiujitsu route just because it is very different from wrestling.. i think CACC or submission wrestling should be much like our current system of wrestling based on the top man being the dominant position and working towards getting the takedown and control..
1/2/08 9:15 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: 02-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 117
I may be wrong, but I think that thing with FILA and Renzo fell apart, because they could not agree on a set of rules. The thing is...in terms of some FILA/USA Wrestling type organization trying to include sub. wrestling, BJJ has such a stranglehold on the grappling world, that CACC needs to emerge, and prove it's worthiness, and distinguish itself from the gi-based arts. But without people from the CACC community being a part of the planning & rules developement, it will end up being BJJ-based, even if it's no-gi. So, it would be very similar to Abu Dhabi. Just my opinion....
1/3/08 2:17 PM
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parklife
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Edited: 03-Jan-08
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i think Dave Schultz, Randy Couture, Eddie Bravo, Eric Duus and Ken and Frank Shamrock would be good reps Schultz and Couture have the MMA/collegiate/Olympic wrestling background Bravo has the jits Eric Duus.. is an Olympic hopeful for judo.. who coached wrestling and judo at Stanford and has trained FShamrock and the guys at AKA Ken and Frank have a japanese/karl gotch/MMA background I think it would cover a good base of knowledge and skills
1/3/08 3:43 PM
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AtomicElbow
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Edited: 03-Jan-08
Member Since: 03/26/2002
Posts: 414
Dave Schultz id dead. I hope you mean Mark
1/5/08 3:22 AM
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parklife
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Edited: 05-Jan-08
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i meant Mark.. my mistake..
1/29/08 11:48 PM
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NCar
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Edited: 29-Jan-08
Member Since: 08/24/2005
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I don't like the whole idea of people being certified as a catch wrestling instructor. That takes away from some people who are legit and dno't have the money to spend on that shit. People who have tons of experience and could own in tournaments and often do own in tournaments but don't have thousands of dollars to spend on being licensed by Jake, or goin to Jake's tournaments... I unno I used to support that stuff but than I went back to school and realised I couldnt afford buying a membership to his site, and getting certified and going to tournaments around the world and shit.... Catch wrestling isn't really well defined, I would suggest for any person with a highschool wrestling background (like me)to start of with no gi jiujistu and sub wrestling. Find a grappling club! And' don't waste your time spending every dollar you have buying shit like certifications from Tony Cecchine or Jake, because in the end I'd rather learn from someone who's done better in competition than someone who has a lousy certification.
2/10/08 12:41 AM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 10-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Some of the more wrestling-oriented MMA clubs would do very well to bring in Billy Robinson for seminars. The only down side is that he is nearly crippled and struggles to get up and down on the mat. But if they can work around that somehow, he has a ton of good stuff to offer. (Judging from the W.A.R Catch Wrestling DVDs, which blew me away.)
2/11/08 8:32 PM
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AtomicElbow
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Edited: 11-Feb-08
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^Or they can bring in someone trained by Billy Robinson- like Barnett.
2/15/08 6:47 PM
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halvi
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Edited: 15-Feb-08
Member Since: 07/21/2004
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I think certification is important but only from a nationally/internationally recognized body such as FILA. You avoid a lot of scams that way.
2/15/08 7:22 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 15-Feb-08
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"^Or they can bring in someone trained by Billy Robinson- like Barnett." True. Although you could tell that Robinson had lots of stuff that Josh hadn't seen. Barnett isn't a beginner, but he isn't an expert in catch by any means.
2/16/08 2:25 PM
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MFranco
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Edited: 16-Feb-08
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"Barnett isn't a beginner, but he isn't an expert in catch by any means." This is true..but his "MMA wrestling" is good, in fact he is the only heavyweight that I seen bridging and hip heisting. I think training with world level freestyle and Greco guys would benefit him more than anything else. Some time with D1 folkstylers would also benefit him in terms of his CACC groundwork. The most important aspect of CACC isn't the leg locks and neck cranks, it's being able to fight like a wrestler and unfortunetly only the Japanese have displayed wrestling based grappling.
2/17/08 12:18 AM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 17-Feb-08 12:31 AM
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My angle is just that we should take advantage of what Billy Robinson has to offer, while he is still with us. Sure, we can always turn to freestyle and Greco for ideas. But links to Wigan and it's generations of catch wrestling knowledge/experience are much harder to come by.
2/20/08 4:36 PM
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workman43113
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Edited: 20-Feb-08
Member Since: 07/02/2002
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"Find a grappling club! And' don't waste your time spending every dollar you have buying shit like certifications from Tony Cecchine or Jake, because in the end I'd rather learn from someone who's done better in competition than someone who has a lousy certification. " Normally I would agree with you and on the Cecchine part I do. However with the state catch is in in term's of being relatively unknown I believe what Jake is doing specifically is going to be the best way to ensure quality control. The seminars, certification's are ran by actual OLD TIME CATCH WRESTLERS and wrestling elite's such as Schalle's Schultz, Dick Cardinal. I think those guy's are more than reliable and reputable as judges. Furthermore to get the greatest certification one must compete in an actual tournament. Atleast by doing this there is a degree of legitimacy to the people who succeed. And through there studen't so long as they remain competitive an open minded they to will excell further and thus the cycle begin's. Normally though I would agree with you.
2/22/08 8:39 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: 22-Feb-08 08:49 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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Look at his Board of Advisors...you don't accumulate that many world-class wrestlers/fighters, if you're a flake. Jake is doing an amazing job of promoting CACC, period. No one has even come close, to doing what he's done for CACC. I still can't figure out why the Freestyle, Folkstyle & Greco communities, haven't embraced Catch Wrestling?? Makes no sense to me. I was hoping some wrestlers, intersted in learning submissions, would jump in and voice their opinions...
2/22/08 11:40 PM
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e. kaye
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Edited: 22-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 16451
Just LOL.
2/23/08 10:55 AM
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DannyE
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Edited: 23-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 119
...what's so funny??
2/23/08 11:07 AM
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e. kaye
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Edited: 23-Feb-08
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Just knowing the history of everyone involved. The situation is so warped. Most guys just "know" secondhand what has transpired.
2/23/08 11:23 AM
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DannyE
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Edited: 23-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 120
Well, I don't claim to know any of that. I have spoke with Jake a few times, and he seems like a very honorable guy, and the people who have agreed to support him, speaks volumes...IMO I'm assuming you were involved in the original group...? Do you have any comments to share, on the last paragraph, of my last post? Thanks

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