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Wrestling UnderGround >> Wrestlers and Catch Wrestling


2/23/08 4:34 PM
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AtomicElbow
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Edited: 23-Feb-08
Member Since: 03/26/2002
Posts: 465
Just join the ICWA, you'll have access to legit catch wrestling there
2/29/08 12:27 AM
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NCar
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Edited: 29-Feb-08 03:13 PM
Member Since: 08/24/2005
Posts: 437
2/29/08 1:44 PM
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JakeWrestler
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Edited: 29-Feb-08 08:20 PM
Member Since: 09/30/2002
Posts: 3730
ScientificWrestling.com
Wow, some of these posts are stuck in "2004" lol.

I've never promoted myself inaccurately and I've only promoted people that back up their claims; e.g., Josh Barnett, Billy Robinson, Erik Paulson, Frank Shamrock, Billy Wicks, Karl Gotch, Wade Schalles, Mark Schultz..

I think you understand if I'll value the endorsement of the highest level grapplers more than your anonymous speculations and petty envy. When I complain about things like this Karl used to tell me, "Only a fool fears the truth. Unfortunately the world is full of fools". I understand why Karl was unpopular often - because he spoke the facts plainly.

I am through defending myself, I think my accomplishments and the testimonials at scientificwrestling.com speak for themselves. I am sorry you have such a problem with me personally but I sincerely welcome you to try to do what I've done cheaper. Really, please try it then let me know how that goes.

Please, I very sincerely encourage anyone to produce DVDs, books, tournaments, create something like the Macebell, promote the REAL deal in catch wrestling, offer clinics, etc. I have no qualms with honest competition (or cooperation) and encourage it. FYI, the SW cert has legitimate catch wrestlers there to oversee things and is like half the price of the other questionable cert.

Some of you guys would really be happier if you contributed something positive... *shakes head

Last post on the topic for me, I actually have productive stuff to do that actually deserves my time. *shrugs

By the way, Danny I agree. I think that the CACC rules create a competition that is amenable to both scholastic wrestlers and submission grapplers both. Hopefully participation will continue to grow!

I just got an email that one of Billy Wick's best guys, Chris Rogers, is putting on another catch wrestling tournament that should be good (has pins and subs)...
2/29/08 2:29 PM
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NCar
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Edited: 29-Feb-08
Member Since: 08/24/2005
Posts: 438
Ok, I'll e-mail you and tell you what I think.
2/29/08 2:42 PM
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Neckcranku
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Edited: 29-Feb-08 08:48 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 4874
First, I think what Jake is doing is fantastic for Catch Wrestling's revival. He made some material available again that was very rare, as well he has made some newer material available that we wouldn't have gotten access to otherwise either. Although the Catch Certifications through Scientific Wrestling are run be Jake, they are overseen in person by actual catch Wrestlers, Dick Cardinal for example. Jake is just facilitating the process. He also provides tournaments based on catch rules, something that hasn't been done until recent years which finally gives those who are catch enthusiasts a venue to compete.
2/29/08 2:50 PM
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JakeWrestler
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Edited: 29-Feb-08 08:54 PM
Member Since: 09/30/2002
Posts: 3732
ScientificWrestling.com
Thanks for posting Bill :)
4/10/08 9:58 PM
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Shoothook
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Edited: Apr 10 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 2/26/06
Posts: 221
Well, alright! this is cool! Looks like the old CACC forum is back. Of course some dudes are probably still pissed at Tony C and Furey. Some dudes are pissed at Jake. The reality is, the focus is never on the Fighters. Who is training and competing in CACC right now? There are clubs out there right now that are in the trenches. And as always dudes want to know who is teaching who? Who is a legit CACC guy and who is not. None of that crap matters... If you are a CACC purist go to the King of Catch or ShootHook tourneys... and prove it. If you win, hang the belt in your own gym and challenge people to take it from you....

Danny i haven't forgot about you. I go home in a couple weeks and i will personally mail that package to you. My wife totally dropped the ball...
4/10/08 11:39 PM
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e. kaye
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Edited: Apr 10 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 16866

What forum would you be referring to?

4/11/08 7:53 PM
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Shoothook
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Edited: Apr 11 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 2/26/06
Posts: 222
MMA.tv had a Catch forum that was pretty cool then everybody got pissed off and eventually the mods got sick of it and quit. I'm still holdin out hope that it will come back, it was good times...
4/11/08 8:37 PM
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e. kaye
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Edited: Apr 11 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 16872

 I thought that you were joking.

4/18/08 6:53 PM
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DannyE
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Edited: Apr 18 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 125
Thanks Rich, good to hear form you!
4/20/08 10:55 PM
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BeerMuscles
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Edited: Apr 20 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 11/1/05
Posts: 1123
PoundforPound, tell me more about W.A.R. Catch wrestling dvd set.
4/25/08 6:00 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: Apr 25 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12027
What specifically would you like to know more about, BeerMuscles?
4/25/08 11:45 PM
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BeerMuscles
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Edited: Apr 25 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 11/1/05
Posts: 1124
Just an overview of the set and what you felt waas most useful.
4/27/08 2:46 AM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: Apr 27 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12041
There was a ton of stuff that I enjoyed from the DVDs.

Robinson showed some warmups/workouts that they used to use in Wigan. Nothing really earth shattering, but it's cool to see how it was done back then.

The technique segments were very interesting. Some of the subs will be familiar to most grapplers, but others were unique.

A neat thing was seeing Billy say why he would do certain moves, as opposed to using other options. Those details right there provide a glimpse as to what the catch wrestling strategies were all about.

Along those same lines, maybe the thing I most got out of the DVDs was Billy's lecture about learning the principles behind the moves. That studying why/how a technique works for you, or doesn't work for you, is so important.

He says that by taking the time to do this you can basically learn to teach yourself how to wrestle.

The interview segments were also fun. He had some great stories about what it was like to train in Wigan, some of the characters there and the pranks they would pull. Gave some insight into old-style boxing too, plus talked about his pro wrestling days.
4/27/08 2:57 AM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: Apr 27 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 12042
I highly recommend the set, but there are 2 negatives I feel should be mentioned.

1. Billy himself is kind of banged up and can't get up and down on the mat very well to teach. So most of the time he is just telling guys what to do, not actually doing it himself.

It's not something he has any control over, obviously, but if you were expecting to see him in action you might be disappointed. (Although he does get on the mat a couple of times here and there.)

2. This was taken at a seminar, so the sound quality is crappy in certain spots. Don't know if Jake could have done anything about that or not, but it is a shame to not have better quality recording of what might have been a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

That said.....if you turn up your TV you should be able to get the gist of what they're saying.
7/28/08 2:19 AM
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wmkelleo
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Edited: 07/28/08 1:41 PM
Member Since: 6/29/06
Posts: 1518
.
7/28/08 1:40 PM
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wmkelleo
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Edited: 07/28/08 1:41 PM
Member Since: 6/29/06
Posts: 1520
Shoothook - None of that crap matters... If you are a CACC purist go to the King of Catch or ShootHook tourneys... and prove it. If you win, hang the belt in your own gym and challenge people to take it from you....quote]

ShootHook 3
Aug 9
Madison, MS

www.ShootHook.net
9/1/08 4:45 PM
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unioncitytopteam
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Member Since: 2/2/08
Posts: 6
Go to Youtube
Search: Union City Top Team

Dragons Den MMA- USA Wrestling
9/9/08 10:38 PM
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hiptosser
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Member Since: 9/19/07
Posts: 780
just do BJJ jeez
Paulson is a black belt
9/12/08 1:58 AM
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unioncitytopteam
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Member Since: 2/2/08
Posts: 31
go to www.youtube.com
Search: Union City Top Team

SF BAY AREA- YOUTH MMA
Dragons Den MMA-USA WRESTLING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KDsHE1xmM4
9/12/08 2:07 PM
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hiptosser
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Edited: 09/12/08 2:08 PM
Member Since: 9/19/07
Posts: 785
UrBloodOnMyFisT - if you've ever wrestled at all and trained catch or some form of submission wrestling. You will think BJJ training is boring... at least i do.I don't want to start on my knees, i don't want to go 40% snails pace and if i feel like standing up , i will.I want to be a good grappler not some homo whos good at wrestling around in his pajamas with some invisble force field hovering over me that wont allow me to stand up when i want tow I do get what you say In a sense ..not all bjj students bring the same intensity as ur average wrestler with that being said u must have rolled with a bunch of oldies or fags or something I tell u right now u just cant stand up out of my guardIf ur already wrestling BJJ is only going to help -help u more than any catch crap will who has 98% of ADCC matches ?BJJ playersIf you want to go from the feet at 110% just say at my gym there are plenty of people will and there are a number of wrestlers who wrestled out a higher level than you at any given time on the mat at my gym - I am just assuming u are not an olympic wrestler
9/13/08 10:27 PM
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Victor Parlati
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Edited: 09/13/08 10:54 PM
Member Since: 5/16/04
Posts: 879
"I tell u right now u just cant stand up out of my guard If ur already wrestling BJJ is only going to help - help u more than any catch crap will - who has 98% of ADCC matches?" (hiptosser)

***YOU NEED TO SEE Josh Barnett's vid entitled "Attacking the Guard", hiptosser, if you want to see what a high level wrestler (and a catch wrestler at that) can do against the guard. And why it works. Being on top is always a dominant position from the catch point of view - and Barnett does an excellent job of demonstrating and teaching how that also applies to being in someone's guard. And when you add strikes to the mix - the dangers of guarding someone up are even greater.

The guard has it's uses - but it's often overated and overused...and from the catch point of view it's not even a "neutral" position - much less an advantageous one.
9/15/08 1:36 AM
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hiptosser
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Member Since: 9/19/07
Posts: 786
Barnett has alot BJJ to btw
9/15/08 4:49 PM
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workman43113
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Member Since: 7/2/02
Posts: 328
They are both great styles and IMO awesome. Having trained in BJJ first and then Catch I personally prefer the catch approach or mentality for grappling. IMO every art or style lacks in certain areas. Catch lack's from work from the bottom in guard or in bottom body scissors position comparitive to BJJ. BJJ lack's in it's standing grappling game considerably.

I believe catch wrestlers would compete and win tremendously if there was a huge tournament that would benefit the catch athlete's style. For example no open style tournaments outside of KOC and SH award for pinning. Second in catch it is acceptable for a wrestler to opt to take you down and stand up, repeat, rinse, wash. In any tournament such as NAGA, GQ, ADCC, etc this would be considered stalling despite the fact that the wrestler is dictating the pace and comtrol of where the match takes place.

In short both art's are great so you catch guy's shouldn't bag on BJJ guy's or vice versa. Just as catch lacked in the guard game BJJ was completely lacking of wrestling or takedown's outside of some subpar watered down Judo techniqiues. Each art can compliment the other, imo yet remain it's own.

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