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1/22/08 3:36 PM
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mrchips
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Edited: 23-Jan-08 06:26 PM
Member Since: 12/12/2006
Posts: 45
 
*withdrawn*
1/22/08 6:59 PM
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Normal MT
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Edited: 22-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 460
Well, he is a Ninja.
1/22/08 8:09 PM
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DrillSergeant"C"
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Edited: 22-Jan-08
Member Since: 07/07/2004
Posts: 915
I did an AKO White Pages search on this dude and all the guys named in his testimonials. They all showed. What I find interesting is how the Army still resists MAC. My view is because MAC requires you to practice to be good at it, (Like anything else in the Army) the Army looks for shortcuts to the "Uber Elite" Level. What does Senior Leadership do when they suck at something?... You Guessed it.... AVOID IT and MAKE EXCUSES... Look at all of the other "Better Options" you see around most installations. Rex Kwon Do...Drum Kwon Do... Combat Karate...Combat JuJitsu.....Combat Hapkido... Just throw the word "Combat" in front of a system, tell everyone how it is easy to master, easy it is kill people, easy to teach and any soldier from the grade of E-1 through O-10 will train it for a Day, and then hang the Diploma on the "I love me wall" and tell everyone how they are so deadly, and trained at fighting........ Didn't realize This turned into a rant. My apologies if I caused some panties to get bunched up. I wish this guy luck, hope he makes a Ton O' Money off the military, every other company does if they can.....
1/22/08 10:55 PM
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RichW101
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Edited: 22-Jan-08
Member Since: 02/23/2006
Posts: 76
Well said DrillSergeant"C". I saw all of the same stuff in Korea. The senior leadership would not give up the time for MAC but had to make sure that they had their numbers for Tae Kwon Do and make sure that they had so many yellow belts and green belts and just before I left my unit had to give up a soldier to be on the demonstration team for a year. And to make matters worse, the Tae Kwon Do grand masters are now adding in some arm bars and a few other submissions and calling it Tae Kwon Do Combatives and so many people are buying it.
1/22/08 11:46 PM
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MAJLeavitt
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Edited: 22-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/09/2005
Posts: 105
"I think the most efficient way to subdue an enemy in close-quarters hand-to-hand combat would be the use of an available weapon. As I stated earlier, there are scenarios where one will not be authorized in using deadly force, but on the battlefield (for which I primarily created B.P.C.) one must use whatever force is necessary to save one?s life. I believe that many of the people who make the aforementioned claims or teach primarily ground fighting for military combatives aren?t properly applying its use." Well no shit! Has anyone of us EVER said anything different? This is a good case of why we need to keep the Level III and IV constrained the way we have it set up at Benning. So we don't have a bunch of half cocked "instructors" running around teaching crap! Guys that get certified quickly with out an understand of progressive, realistic training do not understand the complexity and developing a "band of excellence". They only experience Ground fighitng, and believe that this is where the training ends! Salute to Captain Obvious for making me more aware that I need to remember to use my weapons instead of pulling guard!
1/23/08 7:21 AM
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rafie
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Edited: 23-Jan-08
Member Since: 11/21/2005
Posts: 460
ALCON I know guys I will not said too much becuase you guys already said it. Rich you right but it makes it worst when i received how much money the army expend in Korea for taekwondo and no MACP. I received it before a briefing to a general that never happen because the briefing was about taek won do no combatives like G 3 thought. I was ready to brief about MACP of course not taek won do. Rafie
1/23/08 8:01 AM
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RichW101
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Edited: 23-Jan-08
Member Since: 02/23/2006
Posts: 77
I guess I could be a B.P.C. instructor because I always tell my soldiers that if I had a choice I would rather shoot a guy than go hand-to-hand with him. How do I get in touch with him so I can train with the best?
1/23/08 9:00 AM
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mrchips
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Edited: 23-Jan-08 06:26 PM
Member Since: 12/12/2006
Posts: 46
*withdrawn*
1/23/08 10:03 AM
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rafie
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Edited: 23-Jan-08
Member Since: 11/21/2005
Posts: 461
GUYS I really do know what to think after reading and checking the website,. If we have already an awesome program established why people keep inventing man. Just help MACP to develop to better stages. I really can not express my frustration and madness online but wao once again Rich, JR and Mr. Chips... You guys said all!!!! Rafie
1/23/08 12:20 PM
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Jeff Yurk
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Edited: 23-Jan-08
Member Since: 06/11/2002
Posts: 1217
Fort Bragg Combat MMA

JR,

As much as I agree with your first post in context, I had to delete it. You have to come up with a better way to get your point across than to call Koreans names. On the UG that is fine, on the soldierground, not so good.

I have never met Hakim , though I have talked to him on the phone and have had in depth conversations with people here at Bragg that have had dealings with him. My take this:

He seems like a nice enough guy, but just does not have enough experience to know the difference. What I mean is this. He has military experience and he has fighting (well, martial arts) experience as well. But, he does not have experience with both together. So, he is making many of the assumptions that many outsiders think, and making all of those same mistakes. Somewhere in the Level I thru 4 courses, you learn the things, and much of the training helps to clarify continued sustainment training. He just does not see the big picture yet.

I actually think his heart is in the right place, he is just making the most basic of mistakes to think that he knows what MAC is without ever experiencing it for himself. People have  a need to feel like they are special. This is a case of thinking his program is going to be special and the answer to a question that has already been answered by MAC. For the record he has not been to a Level I course.

Anyway, overall nice guy. Heart in the right place, but not knowledgable enough to realize that his martial art does not transition to CQB training. He is missing the basic concept. If we could use a weapon, we would have. Oh well.

Jeff

1/23/08 5:46 PM
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MAJLeavitt
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Edited: 23-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/09/2005
Posts: 106
Yurk, Thanks for the perspective. I am sure he is a nice guy and that his heart is in the right place. I did not mean to imply otherwise. Sorry for that. Not to make excuses...it is frustrating to spend the time that we have spent on Combatives to be faced with the fact that there are those out there that do not understand it. You are correct, the frustration should not be directed at him, but at the problem at hand. So what do you do to bring these guys into the fold? I admit back in 1999 or 2000 when I first heard about MAC-P. I was working on trying to establish something in the ARNG. Then I found out about Matt and what he was doing. I was very critical and skeptical at first as I had all the same basic mindset that a guy with an Aikido/Aikijitsu background (such as myself) approaches this stuff with. How quickly I forget! Anyway, this mindset lasted up until say around 2003 when one, each SSG Ben (BJ) Bradley, no OC Bradley showed me the light. (translated he kicked my aiki as from here to tommorrow, then had his students do the same!) Now I have not been to the level III, but I have spent time listening to you guys, Matt, and spending time with the program. I have a completely different understanding of the complex environment, the training methodology, and how it works with soldiers, and how it spills over to other "alive" training paradigms in the army. So Yurk brings up some good points. Suppose I get a little personal and pissed off when I see soldiers or former soldiers saying "they don't know, I know" when in fact they are only looking at a small piece of the big picture. I suppose we are all guilty of that at some point! Thanks for the insight again! Hooah
1/23/08 8:07 PM
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Jeff Yurk
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Edited: 24-Jan-08 08:30 AM
Member Since: 06/11/2002
Posts: 1218
Fort Bragg Combat MMA

I completely agree perspective is a key here. The other hand is if we stop allowing outside input, even poor input, we do not allow MAC to grow. MAC can continue to grow and learn, ven from bad influences. Anyone who has been to the Level IV course knows that the class structure is not in it's end state. It is my opinion, the Level IV course will look very different 5 years from now, as our sustainment training continues to evolve. So, in the end, I could see the MAC evolving and incorporating new ideas. Maybe not those ideas from Hakim, but you never know.

I consider Mr. Chips a very good friend. He is a fellow Level IV instructor, a senior NCO in the Army, and someone who I look to for guidence as a mentor. After reading the direction this thread went, he has requested I delete the entire thread. Looking at his post and this thread, it is his feeling that his action to basically "Call out" a another NCO was unprofessional and a bad reflection of who he is as a person and soldier.I have respectfully decided to leave this thread here

I don't think Mr. Chips called ut a NCO at all, rather he brught up an issue that all of us run into at least once . This is not an attack IMO, instead it brings to light a very serious problem that we all face in the Army. While it is rare to have other ARMY NCO's like this creating the programs to try to compete with Army training, it is not rare to see it from contractors, civilians, local martial artists, etc. This is not an attack on this particular soldier, but rather an attack on the problem being faced against outside influences.

There is nothing wrong wth continued sustainment training IN ADDITION TO THE MODERN ARMY COMBATIVES PROGRAM. It must be in addition and not in place of. As long as the Army standard is understood, we cannot go wrong with continued high end training, as long as that training follows similar paths and goals. The problem exists when guys like Master Kim, Aikido Combatives, and programs such as this try to take the place of ARMY DOCTRINE. If they do not have a base in MAC, they should not be allowed to provide any type of support to any Army unit. At some point, someone up high is going to have to make this Army law. If not, there will always be some XO somewhere who does not know better, and hires "that guy" because it is easier to spend the money than it is to send soldiers to get Army training.

I consider myself fairly knowledgable on the subject of MAC, continued sustainment training, etc. I would not have chosen to teach the program if I did not believe in it to a great degree. That said, as a whole we must still only take small sips of the kool-aid, and not drink it all down. There are still limitations to MAC, and as long as well all recognize those limitations and work together to put the rest of the pieces in the puzzle, MAC will be around long after we are gone, not becuse we forced it on the Army, but because the soldiers truely benefit from the program.

(Steps down off soapbox)...

Jeff

1/23/08 11:44 PM
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RichW101
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Edited: 23-Jan-08
Member Since: 02/23/2006
Posts: 78
I agree with everyone and also on the fact that this should not be an attack on BPC. We are going to see this continue to happen to the program. There is always going to be someone that has a better way of training hand to hand. And as Jeff said, MAC is an ever evolving program. AS our conflicts change, we adapt to them and adapt our training to it. WE all have to be able to do as Matt has told all of us when we go through any of the classes down at Benning, we have to be able to put anything we see through the BS filter. If it comes out the other side and makes since and works, we use it and add it to our system. If it doesn't work, we respectful thank the one that showed it to us and move on. We all have to remember that we are here to train our soldiers to fight and win on the battle field. And I think for the most part that is what we are all here to do.
1/24/08 12:26 PM
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MAJLeavitt
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Edited: 24-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/09/2005
Posts: 107
So, the long and short of it is we need to keep driving on and educate those (and ourselves) that are not on board. It took an ass kicking from a good NCO to show me the errors of my ways. Not that it invalidated any of my Aikido training, just showed me the limitations of the training paradigm I was used to. I am now getting to a point where I can integrated the principles back in to what I do with MAC-P. Yurk, great insight, and good advice. On thing to consider as Active Duty Soldiers, you walk a fine line when you start contracting back to the Army Training such as MAC-P or combatives training. There is an ethical breach of contract to consider as well as the NCO creed. I teach soldiers, but I make a clear distinction between a BJJ club, and teaching Combatives POI. I cannot charge for unit or individual training on the company dime!
1/24/08 1:48 PM
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rafie
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Edited: 24-Jan-08
Member Since: 11/21/2005
Posts: 463
Sir i just know that for the last year BJ beat my a.. too. I think he will be an awsome officer and good for the program having officer and future like you and him Rafie

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