UnderGround Forums
 

PoliticalGround >> Would you ever vote for Obama?


1/28/08 1:22 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cypherpunk
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/02/2005
Posts: 3348
I think Obama supporters are well-intentioned people, but I can't vote for him due to the reasons that kylethasnizake laid out. I'll never support a CFR-backed candidate.
1/28/08 1:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1190
i've seen the same people who decry obama's church membership as a front on one thread bag the church on others for being racist. so, if i understand your reasoning here, a highly motivated, party-backed candidate has chosen a church -- entirely to relate to the religious tract of america -- that's a racist cesspool? all because he's a closet muslim? poor guy can't win for losing.
1/28/08 2:25 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1192
i don't understand why obama would join a church for show if the church was racist, be it openly or implicitly.
1/28/08 2:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1194
are "they" as in the denomination in general nuts or is the power structure of obama's local organization nuts. basically, is does obama just go to a church that happens to have some members who have said racist things, or is obama personally involved with church officials who have a demonstrably racist agenda?
1/28/08 2:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cottonzway
835 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/30/2005
Posts: 4235
No. He is just a slick talking politican, like the rest of them except Ron Paul. He speaks of "change" but voted for the Patriot Act. He says he wants to end the Iraq war, but is deep in the pockets of AIPAC who want to attack Iran. He is a CFR sellout and just another in a long line of traitors (left and right) that speaks of help but offers just shit. Fuck Obama!
1/28/08 2:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1195
or, for instance, do they profess a "non-negotiable commitment to africa" as one of their key tenets on the homepage of their website?
1/28/08 3:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08 03:54 AM
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1196
i'm less concerned after reading a few articles. for those interested, and i hope all of you are, one from a major christian news source: http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=3392 the other from a major secular one: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=politics a few things of note. first, it was A LOT harder to find an unbiased secular article than an unbiased religious article, insofar as bias can be avoided in either case. i think the reason's simple -- christians are worried about obama and his church in terms of christian-ness, blackness only being of interest to the degree that it relates to how christian they are or aren't. i found no articles suggesting racism from christrian sources that weren't also strongly demagougued in favor of the political right. secular articles, on the other hand, were almost entirely from politicized sources. i think mainstream media just wants to leave this matter alone for the most part. even the rare cnn/msnbc/newsweek article that i could find only reported on the existence of the controversy, never venturing to answer any of the questions it poses. the times (liberal rag it may be) does take the issue head-on and appears to treat it very fairly. basically, it's a black church that's been quoted as saying black things to black people and it's pretty easy, taken out of context, to see that as anti-white. i suppose speaking english is anti-french in much the same manner. at best, this is guilt by association. and, predictably, obama is judiciously disassociating himself with some of the statements OTHER PEOPLE in the church have made. i'm not afraid of any kind of non-violent ethnocentricism, but that's just me. honestly, i'm very relieved that the church seems to have nothing at all to hide and i'd be very, very interested to hear what people who are up in arms about this have to say about ron paul's name and letterhead above racist statements.
1/28/08 3:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08 04:13 AM
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1198
"any" shouldn't be in there. i don't oppose ethically equilibrial, transparently operated ethnocentric groups and i have no problem with individuals thinking they're culturally martian if they want, as long as the law is obeyed and they aren't SEEKING TO DENIGRATE OTHERS. ultimately, i place trust in the designs of the architects of our political system. jefferson, madison, franklin, adams, livingston, sherman. they were brilliant men who understood that they had to build a framework that was strong enough to support an indefinite period of change, but retain its core structure. one that was general enough for applicability to anything the future could challenge it with, but specific enough to provide the answers they knew we'd need. prescient enough that we'd never forget it and unobtrusive enough that it'd never hold us back. something about that just seems to suggest the ability for the united states as an institution to allow its members to define themselves personally without losing their american identity.
1/28/08 4:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
easyrhino
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 867
ttt
1/28/08 4:25 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08 02:01 PM
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1200
nice edit, asshole.
1/28/08 5:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
easyrhino
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 868
urb.......you are an ignorant soul. did you graduate high school?
1/28/08 5:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Joe Ray
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 08/24/2000
Posts: 48640
"I wanted Thompson. " LOL TTT for 'The Mummy'... A truly awful candidate.
1/28/08 5:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
baxter stockman
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 10/17/2007
Posts: 1201
"demonstrably racist agenda" = no
1/28/08 5:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
easyrhino
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 869
LOL! where are you finding this stuff urb?
1/28/08 5:44 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
easyrhino
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 870
urb.......please do go back to school. nowhere does that website say that the african race is superior to any other race. they are simply guiding their ministry towards a black audience, many of whom share similar life experiences in regards to their identity. you are suffering from poor reading comprehension skills and the ability to look at things objectively, without regard to your own racist views. trying to change your views is a task that i dont have time for. get that ged!
1/28/08 5:47 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Matthew Battle
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/31/2007
Posts: 5362
I might.
1/28/08 5:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
fokket
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 10/31/2001
Posts: 8489
he's the retard trying to apply national ban on CCW. Fuck that
1/28/08 6:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
IBringTheDanger
3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/15/2003
Posts: 1044
I don't see what the americans have against him. If i were you i'd vote OBAMA 08!
1/28/08 7:13 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Joe Ray
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 08/24/2000
Posts: 48644
Republicans will run adevrst telling peoppe that Osama is really a Muslim jihadist Al-Qeada drone who wants to enslave America with sharia law and convert every American citizens to Islam by the sword. there are a number of the Republicans who already believe this lunatic drivel.
1/28/08 8:12 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Joe Ray
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 08/24/2000
Posts: 48648
"I believe Hillary's campaign may already be guilty of this through mass emails." Oh they've been at it already no doubt. He has never been a muslim. There is zero truth in that but clinton had some powerful supporter out saying to the media how great it was that Obama was a muslim before in his youth and how it shows what a diverse guy he is. All said in the most piss-taking and patronizing way.
1/28/08 9:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
StrikeAnywhere
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 02/04/2007
Posts: 5424
This thread illustrates the reason why Republicans want Hillary to get the nomination. I wouldn't be surprised if she starts to get contributions from prominent republicans or if some republican political strategists try and swift boat Obama
1/28/08 9:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
cypherpunk
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 05/02/2005
Posts: 3350
LOL @ White people being so concerned about racism all of a sudden.
1/28/08 10:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Kneeblock
161 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 9204
I will on Super Tuesday.
1/28/08 10:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
StrikeAnywhere
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 02/04/2007
Posts: 5425
"LOL @ White people being so concerned about racism all of a sudden." Yeah you'd think Obama was going to usher in a New Black Order with the way some people are so up in arms about his church. I'm catholic...my church knowingly kept priests with history of molesting kids in parishes...a vote for me means a vote for molesestion!
1/28/08 11:02 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jellyman
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 28-Jan-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 21837
It is true that Barack Obama belongs to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, which he joined in the early 1980s. It is also true that TUCC describes itself as "unashamedly black," and as having a "non-negotiable commitment to Africa." It is not true, however, that one must be black in order to attend. TUCC is located in a predominantly African American neighborhood in Chicago's South Side and most of its parishioners are black, but there is no racial litmus test for joining. As Christian Post columnist Martin E. Marty observed in April 2007, "being 'unashamedly black' does not mean being 'anti-white.' My wife and I on occasion attend, and, like all other non-blacks, are enthusiastically welcomed." The suggestion that a church identifying itself as "unashamedly black" necessarily implies racism on the part of its leaders or congregation fails to acknowledge the 200-year history of a religious and social institution -- the black church -- which was born under slavery and shaped by the necessity to overcome subjugation and marginalization due to racial prejudice. The first independent black churches in America, formed around the turn of the 19th century, "combined evangelical zeal with work on behalf of struggling free blacks and antislavery advocacy," writes historian Laurie Maffly-Kipp. They also provided social services then commonly denied to blacks in both slave and free states. "Because limited educational and vocational opportunities were open to blacks in northern states," Maffly-Kipp continues, "churches also served as schools, training centers, and centers of community organization. Many of the early black newspapers published were facilitated or spearheaded by black clergy, and thus the churches helped to bring African Americans across distances together into a more self-conscious community." Even after the abolition of slavery (which, needless to say, did not translate into instant equality), black churches continued to fulfill these functions in African American communities, right up through the civil rights era and on to today. The black church movement was never an expression of racism; it was a response to racism, and a homegrown solution to many of the social problems it created. Born of more radical times, Trinity United's emphasis on such buzzwords as "Africentrism" and a "Black Value System" may ring in some ears as a call to racial separatism, but the parishioners themselves see it as a way of honoring their stolen heritage and fostering a creed of self-reliance. "Commitment to God, black community, commitment to the black family, the black work ethic, self-discipline and self-respect. Those are values that the conservative movement in particular has suggested are necessary for black advancement," says TUCC's most famous member, Barack Obama. "So I would be puzzled that they would object or quibble with the bulk of a document that basically espouses profoundly conservative values of self-reliance and self-help." (Chicago Tribune, 2/6/07)

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.