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NHLGround >> + - =most useless stat in Hockey


2/5/08 4:30 PM
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CPracer16
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Edited: 05-Feb-08
Member Since: 06/06/2006
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When is the NHL going to either get rid of or change the plus minus stat? It has no reflection on the player or what a player contriubtes to a goal. Example, player makes line change, next player steps on ice and 2 seconds later they score. PLayer receives a plus for what??? Typically your highest plus minus guys are on teams that have low goals against and winning records. Why not just change it to a team statistic and be done with it? Any other opinions on this?
2/5/08 7:47 PM
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PR
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Edited: 05-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 11137
Yeah sometimes you get a bullshit plus and minus, and generally the better teams obviously have players with higher +/- but it is a good indicator of how good a player you are.
2/6/08 10:11 AM
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CPracer16
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Edited: 06-Feb-08
Member Since: 06/06/2006
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PR can you tell me how that statindicates the quality of a player? You can be on the ice for 5 goals in a game and have zero points and be a plus 5
2/7/08 11:23 AM
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goeb
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Edited: 07-Feb-08
Member Since: 11/22/2005
Posts: 2865
It works if you compare the +/- towards the team average I think, you also gotta remember PK and PP don't count against the +/-. I think its a good stat for defnesemen, but when people base forwards +/- on how they might award the Selke trophy, it irritates me.
2/7/08 2:50 PM
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CPracer16
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Edited: 07-Feb-08
Member Since: 06/06/2006
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If you are on the powerplay and get scored on you get a minus. You are helping make my point, it is a team stat, not an individual stat
2/8/08 4:02 AM
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PR
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
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Let me ask you this then CP... take Crosby and put him on a random beer league team for a season. Say a middle level team in a divsion with better teams and worse teams. Do you really think at the end of the season Crosby will have a +/- that reflects the average skill level of his team?
2/8/08 10:19 AM
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CPracer16
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
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well the biggest issue is, we do not keep that stat in beer leagues, I am talking about the NHL and other proffesional or college leagues.
2/8/08 4:01 PM
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PTA
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
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"It has no reflection on the player or what a player contriubtes to a goal. " it does have some reflection. of course there are some examples of line changes where people benefit without doing anything, but those aren't the norm. simply b/c a player didnt make the pass or set up the play doesn't mean that they had no part in the goal. also - plus minus is as indicitive of how many times you're on the ice for goals as it is for how many times you're on the ice preventing goals. there is no statistic out there to define how good a defensive unit is. there is nothing that shows how well a defensive pairing moves the puck out of the zone and up the ice. plus/minus does the best job of reflecting overall offensive/defensive play while at full strength. its not just about the goals your team scores.
2/8/08 4:15 PM
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PR
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
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"well the biggest issue is, we do not keep that stat in beer leagues, I am talking about the NHL and other proffesional or college leagues." Doesnt matter. Sometimes it's easier to understand something when you look at the extremes. You think +/- is strictly a team stat, well I'm coming up with an example to make it obvious that it is not. It follows that if Crosby can dominate a beer league and have a great +/- that he can certainly have a similar, but smaller effect in the NHL.
2/8/08 5:18 PM
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CPracer16
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
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some of the best players in the NHL have negative +/- stats. So please tell me how that is reflective of th player? That is why I say it is a team stat.
2/8/08 8:08 PM
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PR
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
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Ok I see where you are misunderstanding. The stat is relative. Yes, a very good player on a shitty team can be a negative, while some shitty player on a good team can be positive.
2/8/08 10:00 PM
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Mark1
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Edited: 08-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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"Do you really think at the end of the season Crosby will have a +/- that reflects the average skill level of his team?" Doesn't matter. The question remains, will he still take dives and whine like a girl? Mark
2/9/08 12:27 AM
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SlatstheFist
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Edited: 09-Feb-08
Member Since: 03/17/2003
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"The question remains, will he still take dives and whine like a girl? " - yes probably.
2/10/08 10:02 PM
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Big Pete
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Edited: 10-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/01/2001
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For sure!
2/11/08 8:52 AM
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CPracer16
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Edited: 11-Feb-08
Member Since: 06/06/2006
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"Ok I see where you are misunderstanding." How do you figure I am misunderstanding? The point of my thread is that the stat is useless. If the best player in the world is on a shitty team and on the ice alot more than another guy he can have a shitty plus minus? How is that indicative of his performance? ITS NOT
2/11/08 11:25 AM
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PTA
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Edited: 11-Feb-08
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"How is that indicative of his performance? ITS NOT " of course it is indicitive of his performance, but its exactly why we don't look at just one statistic when evaluating a player. every stat in hockey is impacted by the supporting cast. in the end - when evaluating a player we have to look at what actually happened when they were on the ice.
2/11/08 6:04 PM
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Spankenstyne
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Edited: 11-Feb-08
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Posts: 13772
The real question is how DO they get that soft creamy caramel inside the Caramilk bar?

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