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3/7/02 8:32 AM
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jsteinmann
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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Awesome thread! Tom, Tony or anyone else: What do you consider a "reasonable" or "realistic" timeline in training for a street confrontation? While the six-second fight is an oft-espoused, and nice concept, I can imagine many confrontations taking a bit longer than that (hell, most of the old panic attacks last longer than six-seconds). Jake
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Varley
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-MIND BLOWING!!- This is one of the most powerful threads yet ! Wonderful insight guys . Collectively We lay down our thoughts , individually we go away and ponder the Zen-ness of them all ... and in turn apply what we titrate from this into our training . In doing so under Tony and Tom's (et al) watchful eyes , we don't fall into the trap of 'CONFUSING YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM BY COMBINING YOUR STRENGTH TRAINING WITH YOUR SKILL TRAINING ' . Definitely need to archive this one . Thanx again PDR team , Tony ( for so eloquently marrying the Trilogy ), Tom ( for differentiating 'time line' in training for me etc ) , Eric Cobb ( for re-emerging with his wisdom ) and all the other intelligent fellas that took the time here to reach inside and share with all of us ! Cheers , Var
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Jimmy23
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wow, good thread. Myfirst time on this forum, and what an intro! Very good stuff here, guess ill have to start paying attention :)
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Stoned Kold
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I'm always ready - You don't have to be in world class shape to win a street fight with NO rules but of course the better shape you're in the better you will do - I'm strong at defensive takedowns and I can hurt most guys with either hand, I don't go crazy and scream or act tough, I save my energy for dishing out punishment. I'm not to smart now a days when people fuck with me, my first reaction is "fuck you" - I know that's not good and I hope I don't get killed because of it. When I'm home and in a good mood I think I can walk away from a fight if someone fucks with me BUT once I'm out there with the fucking assholes I tend to snap. I've been in a couple long, mean street fights but I've staid relaxed in them and finish strong, I've took my lumps but I relize I'm not much of a talker - If I see someone is ready to go I usally throw the first punch {i don't always land the first punch} but I don't waste time talking. I get nervous in a fight situation and have to leave or get it on right away.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Varley
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Hmmm , a S&C for the E.L.T eh ? Ok ...
  • Tom sits innocently in the environment in which most of these attacks will come ... the PC desk !
  • Next his 'wigged' partner walks up briskly and utters terse , stacatto verbal commands .
  • Tom replies with a studious , yet absent-minded star ahead .
  • Next Tom nods vacantly , but remains static .
  • To which his partner begins an attack of short , ballistic tugs on his ear lobe .
  • Once this has been drilled sufficiently , Tom can work on moving from his flinch , to working towards a submissive posture .
  • And finally , we work on the verbal diffuse , and subsequent egress to the minivan !
I'm certain a few variations on this theme can be improvised and pressure tested . For instance moving the environment to the recliner , or the kitchen ... replacing the PC with a TV or morning paper . And consider different egresses . For instance a backed up toilet that needs attention , a pesky squirrel thats needs beating off of the back deck and his wife's flowers . The possibilities are endless , and directly proportional to the lobe tissue-shearing quotient encountered over the overall time-line ! Cheers
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Thanks Jimmy!! Spread the good word. And welcome. Tony
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tom Campbell
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GUY'S I'M ON VACA. WITH THE FAMILY!! JUST GOT BACK FROM THE CAPE!! NOW OFF TO MAINE!! BE BACK ON LINE TUESDAY!! GREAT JOB ON THE THREAD!! :-) REAL QUICK!!! (I'M GETTING THAT LETS GO LOOK FROM MY WIFE BARB!) WIILING TO GO AND GOOD TO GO ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! (AS TONY SO ELOQUENTLY POINTED OUT!!) THE WILL MOVES THE MIND, THE MIND MOVES THE BODY, THE BODY DOES THE WORK!!!ONLY THE BODY PERFORMS THE WORK!! SO IN KNOWING THIS FACT WE NEED TO DETERMINE THE AMOUNT AND TYPE OF WORK WE WANT THE BODY TO PERFORM. WHEN WE IDENTIFY THESE TWO COMPONENTS (AMOUNT AND TYPE OF WORK!) THE JOB OF DESIGNING A EFFECTIVE S&C PROGRAM BECOMES QUITE SIMPLE!! :-) PEACE, TOM P.S. MY LOVELY WIFE BARBARA HOLDING ON TO MY EAR PULLING QUITE HARD SAYS, "HI AND BYE!!"
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Thanks for checking TC. Regards to Barb, will see you this weekend likely. Tony BTW: Anyone have S & C drills for Tom to strengthen & condition his earlobes??
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Kirik
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Mixed Martial Arts LLC
I have seen more threads than a retired barber, and this is one of the best ever.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Lions Cub
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I train at the Tulsa Lions den and they concentrate highly on cardio. One of your biggest weapons they say....when i first got there, I couldn't go 3 minutes without needing a stretcher. Now I can honestly say that I can go 8-10 minutes full grappling. Also, we do this thing called the "gauntlet" that helps us for NHB scenarios where we go with fresh people every 3 minutes. Not "street" but hopefully close enough since we use strikes.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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domyancic
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can you give some street type conditioning drills that can be performed solo? It would be nice to have some High Gear and local partners to do scenario/simmulation training but I dont have either....I remember the original Panic Attack series and what a hell of a work out those guys were getting in the park chasing each other around and going balls out brawling.... do you have a specific workout in mind here or any workouts on file?
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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MitchJ
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Great posts from all and, of course, a great question by Tom. In short, I think about it 24/7 so yeah, I'm good to go, 100%. That's not ego, confidence or big balls, just that if stuff happens, I'm going to do something, regardless of whether or not I could lose some pounds, have better cardio, or be bigger, stronger and faster. In the moment, you go. As I once heard: "in the absense of something, do something." I train, I work, I hang out with my girlfriend, my buddies and surf the web, but CWCT... I'm the blender, you're the banana. Again, don't read into this with any sort of attitude (email can do that). I will not go quietly. Ron's Wolf... that's my visual. I think that running through a PDR manual is great, training is awesome, but I visualize that moment and think about my vulnerability everytime. Regardless of what physical shape I'm in, psychologically, my blender is on "liquify." My body better keep up to the rest of me! Mitch Joel
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Some great thoughts and some powerful words....many from people I know and have trained personally, but as a mentor/coach/friend, please remember this: On this forum, only mind-set can be played out or discussed...why? Because a forum is only words. On judgment day you will not be asked what you have read or written...you will not even be asked what you have done - only 'you' will know that and it will manifest itself in action. I love the confidence, the mind-set, the analogies and I believe in your faith, while faith gives you permission to believe, and permission to 'leap' into the fight, faith only takes you so far... Faith gets a fighter into boxing match, but showing up without "skill-based endurance" gets him' knocked out... In battle there are two distinct approaches that set the stage for strategy: manoeuver & attrition. Respect and understanding can inspire your training course/s. Two 'battle metaphors' to consider for our analogy: manoeuver represents mind-set, while attrition represents 'ability' to give & take punishment. While battle through manoeuver is always preferred, in your fight, tactical confidence is intrinsically connected to what you 'actually' can do and the only way to know that is through training. "If you cant think to do it in training, what makes you think you'll think to doit in the street?" - TCMS Maxim While some of us are more hard-core than others, everyone must find their truth and everyone must imagine their 'holy-shit' zone and reflect on their ability. While Tom is specifically referring to S & C for the body, he knows, that the body/mind is the real connection. But what he is trying to Socratically share is that the mind, while extremely powerful when nurtured with good coaching will only take you so far [remember my reference to Lombardi]...some of the greatest warriors have laid down to rest in battle because they have completly depleted themselves. No shame, for they had just killed 100 lesser trained men moments before. But no matter how trained the mind if the body cannot respond to the mental demands of either skill, strength or endurance...well, you lose trying :-) The message and moral is about finding that connection to RESISTANCE TRAINING [for some, that means: resistance to train!] for others, ponder resistance used to strengthen the mind, the muscles and so on... Remember, one of my favorite maxims: "You'll never know how much you can do until you try to do more than you can!" 'Intelligently' working to do more than you can creates tactical confidence; it extends your line, it viscerally shows you limitations in power, tactics, effort and more, but most exciting and most important is that when you train hard & smart your body/mind responds immediately and what you find with this organic machine is that it grows, its strengthens and it rewards you with more will & faith on top of the physical power to make it happen. Ponder the Zen-ness of it all... Go reread the OVERKILL chapter of the PDR Manual. Do more Want more Be more Tony
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Eric Cobb
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Hi guys! For all of you Team members who thought that I had disappeared off the face of the earth – no such luck! I’m back. Not in the States yet, but very soon. Have some very long stories to tell – perhaps at the next PDR. I have been pretty much out of it from an Internet availability perspective for months now so have been unable to add my input. Now, things will be different… I read Tom’s question with a bit of glee because I wanted to see what would happen on the thread. As expected the Team answered from the cerebral perspective - which is well and true and right. Remember, if you had to choose only one arsenal, which would it be? However, as has so eloquently been pointed out – every portion of the arsenal is interdependent on the other. We must have the physical capacity to turn a thought into an action and that requires the development of the physical toolbox, as well. Tony, if you read between the lines, has given the formula for effective combative physical training from day one of the PDR. The only limits have been in our own ability to accept the premise and create ourselves from it. Remember the replication principle? Tony just restated it again. Here we have basic physiology boiled down to its essence – the replication principle. In other words, the best preparation for any given skill is the skill itself. In physiology it’s called the SAID principle – this being an acronym for specific adaptation to imposed demand. This is the theory that is driving most areas of sports medicine and skilled athletic training in today’s world. So, what does this mean? Simple. If you want to be more combatively fit, you must create drills, routines, exercises, etc that most closely resemble realistic combative engagements. Unfortunately, as I missed Tom’s session at the latest PDR, I am uncertain exactly what he covered but from everything I’ve seen and read he most certainly knows his stuff and gave some excellent direction in this area. Most importantly, as is typical of Tony’s way of thinking and the entire structure of the TCMS curriculum, appropriate training requires a massive “reframe” or paradigm shift from most of our existing practices. Let me give an example.
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Eric Cobb
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Part II As I was reading this thread, I happened to be watching the Athletics World Championships on Eurosport – primarily because it is the only English speaking channel available where I am right now! The thought that occurred to me was that in every interview of every winning runner at the championships, if the question was asked “Are you fast?” the answer would be “Of course.” What’s interesting here is that you would get the same affirmative answer from the 100 meter champ, the 200 meter champ, the 400 meter champ, the 1500 meter champ, the marathon champ, etc. What’s the point? They are all right. They are all extremely fast DOING WHAT THEY DO. Who do I believe is the fastest? Again, depends on perspective. If I want the fastest available guy to run across a street and pull me out of the way of a speeding car I want Maurice Green on my team. However, if I want the fastest available to meet me at a designated spot twenty-six miles away and we only have 2.5 hours to get there, then I want a marathoner. (I, of course, will be taking the bus…) It’s all about specialization. We are combat athletes and that requires a select and specific conditioning and training paradigm, which means that it is of very little use to apply a training approach from some other sport to prepare for what we do. Again, it’s all about specialiazation. This is the great fallacy of the traditional approach to cross training. As combat athletes we will always cross train, because we have so many variables that present themselves in training: kicking, striking, CQ, groundfighting, weapons, etc. Our main task then is to apply our three I’s to our physical toolbox and get creative in developing ourselves. Thankfully, there are some terrific resources and people available to learn from these days. Finally, here’s another “reframe” for you. Not one guy has posted so far that “Yes, Tom. If I had to go right now, physically I’m ready to rock. I’m strong, coordinated, fluid, flexible and tough.” Why not? How much confidence can you truly have in your other arsenals if you doubt your conditioning? Every world champion sprinter above would answer affirmatively. Is one of the differences between physical confidence and lack thereof actually a belief? Are you fitter and stronger if you simply believe you are? Remember the Millman quote, “If you face only one opponent, but doubt yourself – you’re outnumbered.” If you have serious doubts about your conditioning – fix it. But I would also suggest that you pay close attention to what you believe about your conditioning and apply all of the other TCMS cerebral tools to how you view yourself. A very wise man once said, “Most people will tell you that change is hard. I don’t agree. Change isn’t hard, it’s just different.” When you combine that with the well known adage of “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result,” you can see that to get a different result you have to change your approach and that is perhaps not as hard as it seems – it’s just different. I look forward to seeing you all again very soon. Stay safe, Eric P.S. Tom, thanks for the question. Tony thanks for the beautifully insightful posts. And, yeah, I’m ready to go if I have to…
3/7/02 12:00 AM
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Tony Blauer
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:-) Tom was Socrates in a previous incarnation or turns into Yoda in the future one... Guys, youve all keyed in to the 'Performance Enhancement' model. You've all integrated the CAPACITY/POTENTIAL Theory and you've all connected it to your personal DIRECTIVE. Excellent, but youre being too intellectual about this. Tom is dropping hints....he knows the 'realization' is preferred to 'just' realizing 'something' over time. Mike S. came closest with this: "I know from past experience that Adrenaline and emotional panic can really tax your Aerobic and Anerobic systems. If your training doesn't take you to that point, you are doing yourself a great disservice." Bingo! Introspect on this. INtegrate the most base essence of REPLICATION THEORY: to replicate the event to help acquire technical, tactical and theoretical confidence, strength and endurance. Tom is asking a simple question: Are you ready to go? Youve all envisioned a short 6 second fight to finish your threat. But is that the only fight? Now, go rent SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, fast forward to the scene where the Elite SS Soldier grapples at knife point with the Amercian kid who has no training, but with will and indignation manages to negate the trained figther's efforts for a time until.... until.... until, the kid starts to panic and starts to beg for his life while he weakens and struggles and the SS soldier maintains undiluted focus as he forces the blade into the kids torso. The scene was graphic and bothered most, not beicase of the gore, but because of the sublte filming of total failure. [reflect on that]. But what happened athletically? Could training have changed that? See where were going? Have you ever quit a run? Of course you have, but why? You likley blame it on your mind ["I decided to stop becuase I was exhausted"] People who are truly exhausted collapse, they dont rationalize stopping. Have you ever quit sparring real hard? At some point in your training career, likely, but again, why? Brain or body? Here's what happened to the kid in the knife fight: BODY: The physical arsenal sent a message to his psychological system [lactic acid buidup!! ALERT. No anaerobic capacity to sustain this activity! Abort Abort!!] MIND: Then psychological system interpreted the message [a simplfied it to this sentence: You have no conditioning for this type of fight! You are going to lose!!] in turn the emotional system, which fuels the body/mind connection focuses on the failure, the fear and the result is a failing effort. This soldier did not have technical or tactical training to win the groundfight vs an armed assailant. Had he, perhaps the fight wouldve been over sooner. In a sport, you miss a shot, let in a goal, lose a race, get knocked out...in a real fight you might lose your life. The moral: Failure to respect to strength and conditioning elements for activity that DEMANDS strength & conditioning results in failure of all three arsenals if the opposing resistance [force/opponent/s,etc] extends you past your line. In other words, the coveted trinity is short-circuited. When a confrontation takes too long, it taxes all three arsenal [unles youve done realistic replication training]. When a confrontation taxes your physical system in anyway it also impacts your psycho-emotional system and that can be the beginning of the end. Vince Lombardi said it best, "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." What Tom is asking is how have you prepared yourself for the specific fight you possibly see yourself in? Are there various fight-scenarios? I.e. LEO's must give chase, persue, grapple, restrain...different fight, different workout. Are you a door man? How will your fight play out and what is involved so that you can approach training for it intelligently. I wrote an article in 1993 that asked the question: WHo's a better athlete? An Olympic Swimmer or an Olympic Cyclist? And if we make
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Varley
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Edited: 07-Mar-02
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I remember distinctly Tom saying :
Subject: RE: INFO From: Tom Campbell Date: 28-Jul-01 | 07:17 PM IF ANYONE COULD PICK THE PERFECT STUDENT IT WOULD BE PHIL!! HE IS BALLS TO THE WALL!!!..NO QUESTIONS ASKED!! PEACE, TOM P.S. 99.9% OF THE S&C ADVICE OUT THERE FOR FIGHTERS IS PURE BULLSHIT!!
So to his question : "I'M ASKING ALL OF YOU OUT THERE WHAT DOES IT TAKE PHYSICALLY WHEN IT'S TIME TO GO IN THE STREET???" I would have to say "Balls to the wall" pretty much sums it up . It takes courage , stamina , tenacity ,& willpower etc etc to train for combat . Phil is a man we can all look up to because he has what it takes to go the distance ! I'm pretty sure training under Tony and Tom , Phil is training for far more than MMA competition . In the streets , he would come out on top . So I'd like to hear Phils take on Tom's question(s) and I'd be interested in some insight into what it means to train with the heart of a warrior . Thanx , Var
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tom Campbell
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TONY AND ERIC!!!......SWEET!! FIRST WE NEED TO IDENTIFY THE PHYSICAL NEEDS OF A STREET FIGHT AND BUILD THOSE PHYSICAL NEEDS TO OUR HIGHEST POTENTIAL!! THEN WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND TIME LINE IN TRAINING!! IN TIME LINE IN TRAINING I AM TALKING ABOUT HOW LONG YOUR EVENT IS AND ARE YOUR TRAINING SESSONS GEARED TOWARD THAT TIME FRAME!! WHEN I TRAINED PHIL FOR HIS FIGHT I WAS NOT TRAINING HIM FOR A STREET FIGHT!! I WAS TRAINING HIM FOR A 20 MIN. TIME LINE SO ALL HIS TRAINING WAS GEARED TOWARD THAT TIME LINE!! IF I WAS TRAINING HIM FOR THE STREET THE TRAINING WOULD BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF THE SHORTENED TIME LINE!! PEACE. TOM P.S. ASK YOURSELF THIS ARE YOU CONFUSING YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM BY COMBINING YOUR STRENGTH TRAINING WITH YOUR SKILL TRAINING??
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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bremc
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Tom. Ready to go if I chose/need to. Eric, great hearing from you man, best to your family. Tony, very insightful as usual, thanks. Tom, again thanks for the question. Always a mind, spirit, body expander. L. Nat
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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TKDFighter
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Follow the link to see the results of Tom's "time line in training" program for Phil

Pumped up Phil

3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tom Campbell
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MATT THAT'S GREAT IF YOU WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL! BUT ASK YOURSELF!!!!...DOES THAT KIND OF TRAINING GET YOU READY FOR THE STREET???? I'M ASKING ALL OF YOU OUT THERE WHAT DOES IT TAKE PHYSICALLY WHEN IT'S TIME TO GO IN THE STREET??? PEACE, TOM
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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domyancic
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Im all ears brother!! Stay Safe All, God Bless, and when it comes time may you flip the switch and kick some ass...
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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taroson
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Tom, This is a great question. The answer I believe is that I can only be as good as I am right now.(Taken from the PDR manuel.) This being the case, should a conflict escalate past the point of avoidance and verbal defuse then it's on until it's over. However, we have to remeber the first Commandment of Street Survival: THOU SHALT NOT NOT TRAIN We should all be in the habit of seeking our weaknesses in order to increase our capacity. I remember Tony stating on his audio Q and A, that the greater your physical arsenal, the more creative and therefore stronger your psychological and emotional arsenals will be. Indeed it is a trilogy. If we really embrace the TCMS Overkill Training Mentality we know that we need to do more than is necessary and challenge our limits. So the answer to your question is that while I am ready, I am no where near where I want to be. The training and journey continue. One quick last point, I know from past experience that Adrenaline and emotional panic can really tax your Aerobic and Anerobic systems. If your training doesn't take you to that point, you are doing yourself a great disservice. Great food for thought Tom. Thank You. Mike
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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domyancic
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Tom, Been thinking about this lately as today I was doing some drills with one of the football players. We do SPEAR warm up drills, and then do thai kicks on a bag, knees, elbows, jab/cross on mits....we got into it and were exhausted...its a different kind of conditioning.... Ive done the conditioning with the football team all summer for a few reasons, one being its motivating and I love it, also it makes me train a hell of a lot harder than I would on a consistent basis on my own because running with diesel college athletes in their prime keeps my motor running, and its better then me not doing coniditioning work at all!! In a few years I may not be able to keep up with them so Im doing it while I can....the summer consisited of interval sprints of varying distances, pro agility drills, med ball tosses, 15-25 kilo plate overhead tosses, monster truck tire flips with plyos and football specific drills mixed in, and other odds and ends running with kettleballs etc.... My shoulder girdle is starting to feel a little better since dislocating it doing bjj a few months ago, so im doing light push presses to see how it feels, chins, rows, one arm rows, bench and DB bench, cleans, high pulls, deadlifts, weighted box jumps, rebound jumps, glute/ham raises and other olympic lift variations... Now that I only have one week left with the team, and my arm and IT band are feeling somewhat better and I have a good conditioning base, I need to get to work on specific combat conditioning...I dont know my schedule yet as I should be getting assigned to a squad soon, but Id like to get up there and have u put me through my paces...Im not going to go back to sport bjj, as I cant risk the shoulder coming out again, and i end up doing all these drills and moves Id never use on the street and I dont have time to be practicing both street and sport...I was going to try to find a boxing gym so i could get some contact trianing in if possible, and continue doing SPEAR drills and some striking with partners when i can find them... Well, gotta get some rest...tuesday im going to train with the Mass State Troopers and go thru their shoot house :~) Been shooting steel at least once a week on my own with my Glocks, and itching to do some carbine or sniper training if I can find a range or some willing LEOs... Wish I could have been to the PDR and heard your S&C speech...
3/7/02 8:32 AM
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Tom Campbell
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OK SO FAR!!!! BUT WE ARE AVOIDING THE PHYSICAL IN PURSUIT OF THE MENTAL AND SPIRITUAL/EMOTIONAL!! IT'S A TRILOGY!! WHEN YOU HAVE TO GO!..... CAN YOU!!! CAN YOU ROCK TO YOUR FULL POTENTIAL IN THE PHYSICAL STATE THAT YOU ARE IN NOW AND IF SO WHY?????? PEACE, TOM

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