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PoliticalGround >> Obama vs McCain = the suck


2/14/08 3:52 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
Member Since: 01/12/2008
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oh, yeah Many ANchovies,

What he pledges on the internet is true and will become law after elected.

And  snickers and 3-musketeers will fall form teh sky wrapped in $100 bills.

 

2/14/08 3:55 PM
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matt murdock
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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There's no other ways to support someone other than what they say they want to do.
2/14/08 3:55 PM
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matt murdock
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Edited: 14-Feb-08 03:59 PM
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double post
2/14/08 3:55 PM
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Up With Evil
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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There's no other ways to support someone other than what they say they want to do?
2/14/08 3:57 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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as soon as we leave Iraq, apologize to everyone, and elect a pres with teh middle name Hussein we'll be universally loved again 

*takes off  tinfoil hat, and wraps it around corn to grill it.*

2/14/08 3:59 PM
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fingers 'n' teeth
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"I think a better approach would be mandatory health insurance with a means-tested subsidy for low income. Universal healthcare in the traditional sense would lead to an overall degradation of the quality of care and/or two-tiered system. "

An appauling idea.

Actually, health insurance is such a fucked up system in itself that it inflates the prices of drugs and proceedures to the point where basic health needs of individuals go unanswered because they simply cannot afford it and insurance packages fail to cover some of these trreatments.

People with reasonable jobs (30 grand a year or so) can't afford health insurance with adequate coverage and any unexpected health problems end up bankrupting these people because the inurance won't cover the insane cost of these treatments.

National health services' are common in european countries and whereas there are waiting lists and the coverage is not great you can get help without it risking your financial security. I see no reason why these types of policies can't exist here.

2/14/08 4:08 PM
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Up With Evil
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"Why should the government pay for state of the art treatment for people who can't afford it?" That's the crux, isn't it? Why won't anyone ask the obvious question when someone bring up the sob stories about the poor sick people unable to get treatment - are we really losing anything if you die? What sort of benefit do you bring to society as a whole that we should care if you croak from a medical condition that is technically curable?
2/14/08 4:10 PM
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matt murdock
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"There's no other ways to support someone other than what they say they want to do?" That and their past voting record. I choose my candidate based on what they've done and what they say they'ed like to do. Character obviously plays a role, but positions are more important, IMO. Obama has great character, but I don't support most of his ideas.
2/14/08 4:17 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08 04:23 PM
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"Why should the government pay for state of the art treatment for people who can't afford it? Why not let the rich/better-insured pave the way and as the treatment becomes cheaper and more accessible offer it to average person. "

Socialism at its finest!!!!!!!!!

"rich/better-insured pave the way" sure!  Yeah those rich/better insured should be punished right!  They were able to cheat their way ahead or were born with money right?

This is why Liberals shouldn't run shit..  Penalized people will be the earners/workers.

Poor people without jobs were made that way, not there fault, punish those with good jobs!  You know people with good jobs "knew someone" obviously, it wasn't hard work and good choices throughout life. 

 I laugh at my friends on welfare becasue they always have an excuse.  I offered to call a subcontractor to get a friend on welfare (best friend's cousin) a job.  When I offered him two job options he was pissed off and said - I QUOTE "Yo dude, I didn't want a job I had to work at.  Can't you find me a job like my last one where I smoked bud all day and read comics while providing night security.  This was 2 minutes after he told us he needed money because he knocked up the welfare tramp he was sleeping with.  He was jobless for another 11 months while his parents paid for everything, including $10 a day for weed.  HIs kid popped out and he still didn't get a job"

I stopped talking to him even when I see him out because I wanted to slug him.

2/14/08 4:32 PM
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supersonic
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"Why should the government pay for state of the art treatment for people who can't afford it? Why not let the rich/better-insured pave the way and as the treatment becomes cheaper and more accessible offer it to average person. " Treatment is only a one small variable in the equation. It costs the most, but is not the answer to a long term sustainable health of a population.
2/14/08 4:40 PM
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fingers 'n' teeth
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"Why should the government pay for state of the art treatment for people who can't afford it? Why not let the rich/better-insured pave the way and as the treatment becomes cheaper and more accessible offer it to average person. "

State of the art my fucking arse.

I'm talking about basic medical needs like antibiotic prescriptions or apendectomies.

The problem is what most "i can pay for it, why can't they" POVs is that there are so many people who contribute to this society that don't get adequately reinmburst for the effort they put in and therefore can't get the help that many take for granted.

 

2/14/08 4:55 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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The problem with imagined rights is that there isnt a real end to it once you go down that path. In this case "slipper slope" stops being a fallacy and becomes a legit concern.

If people are entitled to top notch care for free under socialized health care, what about people who feel the gov owes you a job? And good food. And a place a to live? All compeitive with other people's of course.

No sane person lays awake at night delighting in starving, homeless or uninsured people's woes. But a HUGE part of charity is people doing it out of the goodness of their heart. NOT by forcing hard working people to give up their money against their will.

Obama is still much better than allowing Hilary Clinton to have control of the country. I just hope McCain can beat him out in the end now that it looks like all the other R candidates are basically done.
2/14/08 4:58 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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No sane person lays awake at night delighting in starving, homeless or uninsured people's woes. But a HUGE part of charity is people doing it out of the goodness of their heart. NOT by forcing hard working people to give up their money against their will.

11,000+
2/14/08 5:15 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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Does ANYONE know a HARDWORKING person on WELFARE?
2/14/08 5:19 PM
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attjack
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"Does ANYONE know a HARDWORKING person on WELFARE?" Ignorance post.
2/14/08 5:35 PM
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fingers 'n' teeth
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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"If people are entitled to top notch care for free under socialized health care, what about people who feel the gov owes you a job? And good food. And a place a to live? All compeitive with other people's of course."

Why do people keep coming up with 'top notch' and 'state of the art'  for?

I'm talking about bog standard. Emergency service, a check up once a year or being able to get seen when your ill. Not fucking years of advanced thrapy.

 

2/14/08 5:39 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08
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then answer ATTJERK
2/14/08 5:41 PM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 14-Feb-08 05:57 PM
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Let me guess,

MOST of welfare people are very hard working achievers that have gotten a raw deal?

2/15/08 10:31 AM
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liquifaction
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Edited: 15-Feb-08
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TTT
2/20/08 6:34 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 20-Feb-08
Member Since: 06/06/2003
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"Everyone should have the RIGHT to GOOD healthcare. It is everyone's obligation to chip in and help each other on this matter. " Try using that analogy for auto insurance.
4/17/08 12:30 AM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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"It is everyone's obligation to chip in and help each other on this matter" Go to a Wal-Mart sometime, note the disgustingly fat people, and tell me that again.
4/20/08 3:27 PM
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crobrun
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Edited: Apr 20 2008 12:00A
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Jaseprobst. It's very simple. Once you get state run health care, then you can make people live a proper life, eating properly, and exercising in a government approved fashion. After all, they are taking taxpayer dollars.
4/22/08 11:03 PM
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bluedragon
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Edited: Apr 22 2008 12:00A
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"Try using that analogy for auto insurance." Sometimes you say some really really really dumb things.
4/24/08 3:15 AM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: Apr 24 2008 12:00A
Member Since: 6/6/03
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Why's that, Blue Dragon? Because it's perfectly applicable. Once you insure people who are poor actuarial risks, prices go up...especially when they don't have to absorb the costs. You can ALWAYS find a job. That is pure bullshit. I had a nice dot.com gig (a couple, actually) and when me and all my friend got laid off, I went through a six-month unemployment phase, bit down and worked security shifts for a year and freelance writing. There is ALWAYS a job if you are willing to do whatever it takes. That ethos, unfortunately, is not universal. So, excuse, while now, as a someone who pays into the tax system and is a positive contributor to the federal coffers, I extend a middle finger to the apologists who want to let people cut in line who haven't earned it.

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