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Roy Harris >> Compare two side control escapes?


2/21/08 9:42 AM
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demandango
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Edited: 21-Feb-08 09:51 AM
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Hi Roy, in Roy Dean's video here: http://www.roydeanacademy.com/video/sidemount_escapes he teaches a method of replacing the guard slightly different than the method I have seen you teach on your BJJ 101 series (which is the second method he shows in this video). Instead of using his far leg to hook the inside of the thigh, he leaves his far leg dangling over the opponent's back. I see the benefit of your method- the instep prevents the opponent from 're-passing' toward you. Is there any benefit to training Mr. Dean's first version as opposed to the other? I see you can move more quickly to closed guard, but you can easily do that with your version with an extra hip movement if you do not prefer to finish in butterfly guard. If I wanted to go to closed guard, it seems it would make more sense to use your version and then move to closed guard rather than use Mr. Dean's first escape here, because of the extra control hooking with the instep brings. Thoughts? Thanks for your time!
2/21/08 11:48 AM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 21-Feb-08
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demandango, For starters, what you are witnessing is Mr. Dean's personal preference. Even though I do not like sticking the knee all the way through (because I was never very good at it), since it works for him, that is all that matters. Second, the method Mr. Dean shows correlates to each finishing position. He uses his method of escape to show an entry into the closed guard. Then, he shows my method of escape for entering into the butterfly guard. Both methods are useful! Third, there three reasons I have emphasized my way of replacing the guard: 1. While coming up through the ranks in BJJ, I had difficulty with opponents who kept trying to pass my guard while I was in the process of trying to put them back into my guard. So, I purposely added the hooking movement of the far leg to stop them from passing my guard again. 2. Having taught thousands of students since 1991, I have observed how many students have had the same problems. 3. I have found that white, brown belts and black belts are the only students that use the closed guard a lot. In other words, there are thousands of blue and purple belt students around the world who (almost exclusively) use the open guard and its many variations (spider, reverse, half, de la Riva, etc...). So, since so many students have preferred to use open guard after replacing the guard, this is another reason why I have emphasized one particular method of replacing the guard. Does that make sense? Roy Harris
2/21/08 2:35 PM
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Invincible
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Edited: 21-Feb-08
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"I have found that white, brown belts and black belts are the only students that use the closed guard a lot." Why do you think that is, Mr. Harris?
2/21/08 7:35 PM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 21-Feb-08
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Because of the simplicity and complexity of the use of this guard!
2/21/08 9:40 PM
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twinkletoesCT
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Edited: 21-Feb-08
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Man, it's so true!
2/21/08 9:45 PM
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Invincible
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Edited: 21-Feb-08
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I only noticed that i've done that. As a brown belt, I'm almost use the closed guard exclusively, but when I was a blue, I was a spider guard using sonuvagun! lol that's funny you mention it.
2/22/08 1:07 PM
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sovann
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Edited: 22-Feb-08
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"the simplicity and complexity..." my brain always hurts when Roy says stuff like this :)
2/22/08 6:15 PM
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Matt Freedman
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Edited: 22-Feb-08
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"Because of the simplicity and complexity of the use of this guard!" LOL, awesome answer! Maybe it also has to do with the fact that when you're a brown or black belt, you're probably rolling more with other higher-ranked guys...which means the chance of them stacking you while inside your closed guard (and possibly injuring your back) is much less. White belts often stack me in the closed guard. And I know there are methods to stop or counter the stack. But if I make a mistake and don't do the counter properly, it could SERIOUSLY mess up my back. And I make plenty of mistakes :P So I'd rather just avoid the problem and play closed with the whites and low blues who I usually roll with.
2/22/08 6:16 PM
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Matt Freedman
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Edited: 22-Feb-08
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Should that be "whom I usually roll with?"
2/22/08 6:37 PM
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twinkletoesCT
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Edited: 22-Feb-08
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Modern Self-Defense Center
"With whom I usually roll"
2/25/08 12:18 PM
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demandango
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Edited: 25-Feb-08
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"Even though I do not like sticking the knee all the way through (because I was never very good at it), since it works for him, that is all that matters." What do you mean by 'sticking the knee all the way through'? Thanks for your response.
3/4/08 8:46 AM
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Roy Harris
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Edited: 04-Mar-08
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demandango, Listen for when Mr. Dean says, "My leg is going to go around his body. I drop my foot, and my knee will push against his upper torso." Inserting the knee all the way across (and underneath) the body never seemed to work for me. I found by pushing on my opponent's body away from my body worked much better for me. Roy
3/7/08 3:01 PM
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demandango
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Edited: 07-Mar-08
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thanks for clarifying Roy! i will rewatch Mr. Dean's material and your own and compare, then perhaps post back on this thread if I have further questions.
3/12/08 10:05 AM
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Ausgepicht
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Edited: Apr 27 2008 12:00A
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"Instead of using his far leg to hook the inside of the thigh, he leaves his far leg dangling over the opponent's back."


I can't speak for Roy, but I often prefer this over butterfly hooking the inner thigh or draping the foot over his calf to slow down the "re-pass".


I call it "sugarpassing". It can make it appear as a mistake and draws the pass....making it too irresistible for some people. It allows me instead of getting to the guard (not my preference) to one of my favorite escapes/sweeps.


Usually there's a serious skirmish...top man working his pass and bottom man defending. This builds up a serious amount of pressure. I "fake" the prevention, then all of a sudden allow it....it's like when you are pushing against someone that is pushing against you and then suddenly you move aside allowing them to fall forward.


Once they are "out of the gates" they usually fly into some sort of side mount. Just before they settle, I capture the chin and underhook near their far hip, bridge and roll them into the direction theyare moving towards and take either North/South or Side.


It's one of my highest percentage escapes and gets me to a very dominant position as opposed to guard. I'll see if I can't find a vid on YouTube/Dailymotion. 

3/12/08 10:12 AM
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Ausgepicht
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Edited: 12-Mar-08
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