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PoliticalGround >> McCain not sure who the enemy is.


3/19/08 3:02 PM
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bluedragon
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"You talk as much as he does in public you make a few mistakes." LOL at the Apologist
3/19/08 4:09 PM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"Actually, there is pretty clear evidence Iran has provided weapons, training, and money to both sides, Shia and Sunni." Yes, but he said that Iran was providing support to AL-QUAIDA. You must be a McCain supporter with that heightened sense of differentiation.
3/19/08 4:36 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"You talk as much as he does in public you make a few mistakes." LOL at the Apologist Ohh, BlueDragon, you got me there! LOL at you capitalizing "apologist." You ought to learn to write coherently before trotting out your big brain. What was it about "apologist" that motivated you to capitalize it? Is it like a job title or career field or something? I guess you can prove it wasn't a mistake, then? Pffft. Typical of people like you -- you try and act like McCain doesn't know jack about anything even though he knows a helluva lot more about war and the military than either of your candidates. Unlike Clinton (or her husband), or Obama, McCain has actually served in the military.
3/19/08 4:56 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 05:03 PM
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McCain already admitted that he doesn't know much about the economy. Now this. What exactly is he good at, again?
3/19/08 5:43 PM
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bluedragon
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"What was it about "apologist" that motivated you to capitalize it?" Just giving you your proper title. "he knows a helluva lot more about war and the military than either of your candidates" Really? He is so smart, that he wants the iraq occupation to continue. So smart, that he doesn't grasp the harsh reality that this occupation is breeding more enemies and hate toward us than can possibly be measured with statistics. Only logic. So smart, that he knows EXACTLY what sect AQ consists of. Sure buddy. Grade A genius, that McSame. Now please go back to apologizing and figuring out what Hitchens will tell you what to think next. Thanks.
3/19/08 5:46 PM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"even though he knows a helluva lot more about war and the military than either of your candidates. Unlike Clinton (or her husband), or Obama, McCain has actually served in the military." By that logic we should take all the PTS vets with brain damage from Iraq and put them in charge of our foreign policy.
3/19/08 6:07 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Geez, I wonder if McCain had the same service record and was a Democrat you guys would be saying things like this. Hmmm..... And, Blue Dragon, I guess it was the Iraq invasion that caused 9/11, Munich, the Achille Lauro, the U.S.S. Cole, to name just a few? What is funny about people using your line of logic is that you don't take into account that Islam is already in the fight, and has been, against Western Civ for decades. What we decide NOT to do doesn't make them change their minds and like us. You don't accept that, do you? Of course not. They are going to win or we will win. Simple as that. That's ok, though. Let's skip the foreplay. I will bet you McCain beats Clinton or Obama. But, let me guess...America is too "stupid" to vote for a Dem, right? Like when the elected Clinton twice? Why don't we stop boring ourselves and put some money on the line. I got $100 on the old man. Take it or (more likely) leave it.
3/19/08 6:23 PM
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bluedragon
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"I guess it was the Iraq invasion that caused 9/11, Munich, the Achille Lauro, the U.S.S. Cole, to name just a few?" I think you have it the other way around, but keep trying. I'm also well aware of the history of the Islamofascist movement. Not quite sure you are. You do know that it really didn't exist in Iraq before we went there, don't you? You do remember how the world was behind us after 9/11 to go and wipe out Bin Laden and his cronnies, don't you? What happened with that? Why did that change? "What we decide NOT to do doesn't make them change their minds and like us." I'm well aware of that. You seem to not be aware or can't admit that we are creating more jihadis than one can possibly imagine by us occupying Iraq. Being the self proclaimed expert on the ME, I am surprised that you don't see that no matter what we do, they will continue to kill each other when we leave, and they will continue to harbor hate for the West. You think that some day you are going to wake up and all will be well in the ME and democracy will be alive and well? Come on man, you are smarter than that. Instead of putting our soldiers in Iraq as police officers to stop the sectarian violence that will never end and will NEVER BACK DOWN, I would rather put them where the root of all this exists right now. Where all of the money and the training and the operations for the grand plans come from. Yes, the tribal region of Pakistan *gasp*. "I will bet you McCain beats Clinton or Obama" LOL! So you want to bet me money that this country is still borderline retarded? No thanks. The OG proves that to me everyday. Plus, I know that there is no way Clinton would get elected. I, for one, dislike her greatly and would never bet on her or vote for her.
3/19/08 6:27 PM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"What is funny about people using your line of logic is that you don't take into account that Islam is already in the fight, and has been, against Western Civ for decades. What we decide NOT to do doesn't make them change their minds and like us. You don't accept that, do you? Of course not. They are going to win or we will win. Simple as that." Maybe you aren't aware that 'Western Civilization' (Are we really that civilized?) would not exist if Muslims hadn't transferred the knowledge of their doctors and ancient Greeks to Europe. The idea that there are some 'blocs' of civilization that have always been at war is a myth. Like a typical nationalist, you only pick out the things that make you feel righteous (heard of the Crusades? Muslims and Christians lived side by side in Palestine before the Crusades).
3/19/08 6:44 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"Maybe you aren't aware that 'Western Civilization' (Are we really that civilized?) would not exist if Muslims hadn't transferred the knowledge of their doctors and ancient Greeks to Europe. The idea that there are some 'blocs' of civilization that have always been at war is a myth." Um, so that's it? What does that have to do with combating terrorism and the decisions we make? That's also a woefully naive statement but let's not hijack this into a whole 'nother discussion. Too pedantic for me. "Like a typical nationalist, you only pick out the things that make you feel righteous (heard of the Crusades?" Ever heard of 'terrorism'? "Muslims and Christians lived side by side in Palestine before the Crusades)." Yes, and circa the 8th century, Muslims and Christians lived side by side in a massive empire spread by the sword, thanks to the Muslims. Have you ever heard of a history book? You should try picking one up.
3/19/08 6:53 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Yes, a history book would be very useful. Look up US meddling in Iran in the 1950's, with the shah. And the broken promises of Great Britain to the Arabs led by Lawrence of Arabia. And the creation of Israel under the British.
3/19/08 7:34 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 07:48 PM
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I'm not denying any of that. Of course things we have done have pissed them off. Well, too bad. I know about the creation of Israel, the Balfour Declaration, Yom Kippur and the Six-Day War, etc. Doesn't change the fact that they have some lousy ideas and their so-called "religion of peace" centrists doesn't seem to be motivated enough to tamp down the radicals. There were plenty of Germans that weren't Nazis during 1933-1945, too. Does that change Germany's culpability? Let's say Bush gets a wild hair up his ass and decides to invade Iran. Whose fault is it? Ultimately it is the country's until they decide to atone for their mistakes. Vietnam may have been a "bad war" as well but i don't hear anybody trying to counter the reason why we "officially" went there (Domino theory). Yes, there were other interests and plenty of subplots with who kept us there and why, but it doesn't change the fact that millions of people were slaughtered under Communist regimes. Nobody can dispute opposing communism in Southeast Asia wasn't a noble goal -- ask the relatives of the couple million who were slaughtered under Pol Pot, for one. Same principle with Islamofacism. Personally, I like the idea of giving these assholes a short-ride ticket to get in the jihad and get slaughtered rather than have them contemplate more complex venues further away (and, closer to us and our allies). The "oh, don't piss them off" mentality is the same defeatist mindset the Democrats had when they didn't want us to supply the Afghanis with Stingers (which played a big role in helping sink the USSR given the cost-benefit ratio of soaking the Russians dry) and didn't want us to fund the Contras. Look at Vietnam, Nicaragua, and all those communist client states -- how well did being communist work for all of them? I'm sure in 20 or more years the Left will have convinced plenty more people that Soviets weren't a threat and that Reagan didn't win the Cold War, too. Bullshit. Reagan was a simpleton and a bad actor and I never liked him on a personal level, but like GW, he is the blunt instrument I want walking down a dark alley and he fits well enough on that score that I can deal with the rest of his retardation just enough (though I'm drawing the line when gas goes above $4 a gallon). That's why we keep you people around -- for entertainment -- while real patriots and heroes make the tough decisions.
3/19/08 8:02 PM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"Yes, and circa the 8th century, Muslims and Christians lived side by side in a massive empire spread by the sword, thanks to the Muslims. Have you ever heard of a history book? You should try picking one up." They weren't going to war against Western Civilization however. Empires don't discriminate. As far as the rest of your comments, this one takes the cake. "Vietnam may have been a "bad war" as well but i don't hear anybody trying to counter the reason why allegedly went there (Domino theory). Yes, there were other interests and plenty of subplots with who kept us there and why, but it doesn't change the fact that millions of people were slaughtered under Communist regimes." Plenty of people supplied alternate theories for the Viet Nam War. Eisenhower supplied the Military-Industrial Complex. The Domino Theory was just marketing. Viet Nam was a tactical mistake for two reasons, there was no possibility of winning and there was no connection between Viet Nam and China. Russia only entered into the equation when they figured out they could use the vietnamese as proxies. You are confusing history with ideology. You are also convinced that you can reduce threats by making lots of enemies. And the Iran-Contra affair? The support of this policy alone discredits you.
3/19/08 8:04 PM
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thesleeper
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"That's why we keep you people around -- for entertainment -- while real patriots and heroes make the tough decisions." Actually we keep people like you around as fodder (blunt instrument indeed) for storming fortified positions.
3/19/08 8:18 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 08:25 PM
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"Eisenhower supplied the Military-Industrial Complex." Yes indeed. And I'd love to see someone try to discredit Ike as being anything other than a hero and a patriot. "The "oh, don't piss them off" mentality is the same defeatist mindset the Democrats had..." In my case, at least, it's not about not pissing them off. It's about letting them live their own lives as they see fit. If they are then stupid enough to still want to come over here to the US and cause trouble, then annihilate them. But at least give them the chance to be free of our interference first.
3/19/08 9:52 PM
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bluedragon
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"There were plenty of Germans that weren't Nazis during 1933-1945, too." And there were plenty of Nazis who wore uniforms. Comparing the Nazis w/ AQ doesn't work. Not even in the same ballpark. "Let's say Bush gets a wild hair up his ass and decides to invade Iran. Whose fault is it? Ultimately it is the country's until they decide to atone for their mistakes." So it is Iranians fault for not wanting to live the way Americans live? "Personally, I like the idea of giving these assholes a short-ride ticket to get in the jihad and get slaughtered rather than have them contemplate more complex venues further away (and, closer to us and our allies)" Agree 100%. I don't think you mean what you say though, because as I mentioned before, the current root of the problem is sitting in the Pakistani tribal region contemplating comlex venues as we speak, while we are out policing a civil war and chasing down insurgents who attack us because we occupy their land. If you meant what you wrote above, Iraq would be one of the last places you should want 140,000 of our troops to be right now. "That's why we keep you people around -- for entertainment -- while real patriots and heroes make the tough decisions." LOL Less blind partisan thinking and more critical thinking would go a long way for you probst.
3/19/08 11:59 PM
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jaseprobst
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Me: "Let's say Bush gets a wild hair up his ass and decides to invade Iran. Whose fault is it? Ultimately it is the country's until they decide to atone for their mistakes." You: So it is Iranians fault for not wanting to live the way Americans live? No, Blue Dragon. My meaning was that is America's responsibility if they make a mistake and do something like invading Iran. Same deal for countries that harbor terrorists. I don't understand the rest of your reasoning, honestly (all Nazis wore uniforms? What does that mean?). That's ok, though. You guys will hopefully nominate Hillary and give us four years of McCain. I'm going to enjoy that.

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