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PoliticalGround >> serious question re: obama


3/19/08 11:01 AM
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Ogami Itto
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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No.
3/19/08 11:01 AM
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StrikeAnywhere
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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not racist...neither is his wife.
3/19/08 11:03 AM
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Shawn C
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Who are you voting for, marines1?
3/19/08 11:03 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"And I don't consider myself racist." 'of course not' Nice and snide. If you are going to accuse someone of racism, then do it honestly. Don't be a coward-- you think I'm a racist for what I said then call me one and support your call.
3/19/08 11:04 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"One of McCain's spiritual advisors or whatever they're called bashed Catholics awhile ago. McCain later distanced himself." Please. Either come with specifics or let someone else. Half-remembered smears are not useful.
3/19/08 11:05 AM
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Fraser
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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" OK, Frasier. Which adviser and what did he say? Be specific."

McCain Endorsement Angers Catholic League President

Updated 6 p.m.
By Michael D. Shear
HOUSTON -- The president of the Catholic League today blasted Sen. John McCain for accepting the endorsement of Texas evangelicalist John Hagee, calling the controversial pastor a bigot who has "waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church."

Hagee, who is known for his crusading support of Israel, backed McCain's presidential bid Wednesday, standing next to the senator at a hotel in San Antonio and calling McCain "a man of principle."

But Catholic League President Bill Donohue said in a statement today that Hagee has written extensively in negative ways about the Catholic Church, "calling it 'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.'"

"Senator Obama has repudiated the endorsement of Louis Farrakhan, another bigot. McCain should follow suit and retract his embrace of Hagee," Donohue said.

Catholics United, a national online group, also blasted McCain over the endorsement. "By receiving the endorsement of an outspoken critic of the Catholic Church, McCain once again demonstrates that he is willing to sell out his principles for a chance to win the Presidency," said Chris Korzen, Executive Director of Catholics United in a statement. "We hope Senator McCain will take the principled position of publicly and unequivocally distancing himself from Pastor Hagee's anti-Catholic comments. Intolerance and bigotry do not belong in American politics."

The McCain campaign had no immediate comment on the statements.

3/19/08 11:06 AM
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LiveWire
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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^That's it. BTW, I was just saying what  IIRC, it wasn't my post originally.

3/19/08 11:07 AM
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BigEyedFish
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"lets review bush's "friends" while we're at it. let's start with the saudi's, then ken lay, and on and on. " Sinetines I cant believe how utterly pathetic some people in this place are. Suicide yourself. Honestly, do it.
3/19/08 11:08 AM
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Brendasu
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Brenda you are not thinking with clarity and logic, you are letting your bias get in the way. -not really. im just curious how someone can be called racist without ever demonstrating that they personally are racist. how exactly does that work? if i associate with smokers, does that make me one too?
3/19/08 11:08 AM
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Fraser
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Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., still breaks from GOP orthodoxy on such issues as torture and immigration. But operating below the radar, the potential Republican presidential hopeful is taking steps to win over the conservatives who denied him the GOP's presidential nomination in 2000.

His efforts have paid off with at least one prominent conservative.

"I think he is genuinely a state's righter -- and so am I," the Rev. Jerry Falwell told ABC News.

When McCain ran for president the last time, he denounced Falwell as one of America's "agents of intolerance." But now that McCain is gearing up to run for president as the GOP's establishment candidate, he has told Falwell that he spoke "in haste" in 2000.

"It just came down to pure old politics in South Carolina and other states," Falwell said.

Falwell and McCain first made peace in a face-to-face meeting a few months ago. In a sign of their improved relationship, McCain has agreed to be the graduation speaker at Falwell's Liberty University on May 13.

Weighing a Marriage Amendment

When McCain accepted an invitation to be Liberty University's graduation speaker, he spoke with Falwell by phone about the marriage issue.

According to Falwell, McCain is not pushing for a federal marriage amendment at this time. But McCain "reconfirmed" to Falwell that he would support a federal constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman if a federal court were to strike down state constitutional bans on gay marriage.

McCain's outreach to conservatives on marriage is politically important because of the way he sharply denounced a federal constitutional ban on gay marriage when it was considered in 2004. McCain called it "antithetical in every way to the core philosophy of Republicans" because it "usurps from the states a fundamental authority they have always possessed and imposes a federal remedy for a problem that most states do not believe confronts them."

Democrats wasted little time criticizing McCain's rapprochement with Falwell. Karen Finney, the Democratic National Committee's communications director, called it a "flip- flop."

3/19/08 11:09 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Fraser, * This is a man that McCain doesn't even know, much less have for 20 years as a pastor, baptizer, policy vetter, and namer of his autobiography. * Being a critic of the Catholic church is not the same as accusing whites of engineering HIV to kill blacks. Hagee's criticism is theological, not personal or racial in nature-- I'm guessing he would gladly accept a convert from Catholicism. He disagrees (strongly) with the ideology and theology of the Catholic church. Lame comparison.
3/19/08 11:10 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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Fraser, These are limp comparisons. Unworthy.
3/19/08 11:11 AM
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balloon knotter
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"lets review bush's "friends" while we're at it. let's start with the saudi's, then ken lay, and on and on. " Sinetines I cant believe how utterly pathetic some people in this place are. Suicide yourself. Honestly, do it. ............................................ Sinetines???? see my response farther down.
3/19/08 11:11 AM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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its almost surreal how you can't actually get a black person, even on here, to just come out and say "of course the US government didn't use AIDS and crack to try to kill black people. if a black individual is a crack head or has AIDS, that's his or her own responsibility" 10 threads about this, and i haven't heard anyone say "wow that's weird that anyone would think that" guaranteed that if some white preacher was on tv saying something crazy like "all white people know that black people are stupid" we could find and OGer or two to say "of course white people don't think that" its just more of the same old bullshit where American blacks circle the wagons no matter how wrong the guy is. Defend OJ even though you know he's a murderer, Michael Jackson even though you know he's a child rapist, Wright even though you know he's a racist and a lunatic, Obama even though you know he's under qualified. All that matters is that they're the right color I don't see how people in the black community can talk about racism with a straight face, its so sad that the only place in America its still alive and well is within the black community, and its even sadder that no one cares about changing that any time soon I guess its easier to just continue to manufacture grievances so whitey always owes you something and you can keep that anger going I've said more than once that the Palestinians and black Americans are the two most close minded and self destructive community groups I've ever seen, and here it is all spelled out for everyone. This church is so crazy racist they don't even care that they're destroying their own church member by not backing away from all this craziness. Its more important for them to close ranks and show white america that they're not sorry for anything that's been said in their church ever than it is for them to not completely fuck Obama's campaign by telling people from CNN "oh yeah, Rev Wright told the truth and we agree with everything he said. here's a flyer about how racist America is towards us" this past Sunday So self-destructive and ignorant and hateful and pathetic, all at the same time. you don't know whether to laugh or cry
3/19/08 11:11 AM
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THAGE
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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It's funny to me that everyone is making a deal out of the fact that its a afrocentric church.

The comments wright has made have been outrageous and are wrong, but the fact that the church pushes an african american POV is fine.

Do you not think white churches push their own agenda? It may not be as straightforward as him, but there are plenty of examples.

Hell, we even plaster pictures of Jesus in every white church with Jesus appearing to be a very pale light skinned caucasion. LOL, jesus wasn't some american of european decent. I guess whites are more subtle in that area.

3/19/08 11:12 AM
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Fraser
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Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.
3/19/08 11:13 AM
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Fraser
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Parsley, who refers to himself as a "Christocrat," is no stranger to controversy. In 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley's church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status.

Why would McCain court Parsley? He has long had trouble figuring out how to deal with Christian fundamentalists, an important bloc for the Republican Party. During his 2000 presidential bid, he referred to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as "agents of intolerance." But six years later, as he readied himself for another White House run, McCain repudiated that remark. More recently, his campaign hit a rough patch when he accepted the endorsement of the Reverend John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who has called the Catholic Church "the great whore" and a "false cult system." After the Catholic League protested and called on McCain to renounce Hagee's support, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee praised Hagee's spiritual leadership and support of Israel and said that "when [Hagee] endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in." After being further criticized for his Hagee connection, McCain backed off slightly, saying, "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." But McCain did not renounce Hagee's endorsement.

3/19/08 11:13 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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"And I don't consider myself racist." 'of course not' Question for Brenda: Are you going to have the courage to accuse me of racism? Or are you going to just let your snide and sarcastic remark sit there? If the latter, I'll have a good handle on your character (or lack of it).
3/19/08 11:13 AM
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Brendasu
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 11:19 AM
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its almost surreal how you can't actually get a black person, even on here, to just come out and say "of course the US government didn't use AIDS and crack to try to kill black people. if a black individual is a crack head or has AIDS, that's his or her own responsibility" 10 threads about this, and i haven't heard anyone say "wow that's weird that anyone would think that -no one ever asked me what i felt about that or if i believed it. and you won't hear me say "gee, why on earth would anyone think that" given the fact that there are still people alive today who have syphillis because the GOVERNMENT wanted to conduct a study on the effect sphyillis had on the human body. do i believe the AIDS thing? no. do i believe that some could reasonably come to that conclusion based on the actions of the u.s. government in the past? yes.
3/19/08 11:13 AM
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PatK
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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i didn't blame bush for anything...on this thread. and the fact of the matter is that if bush had improved race relations, then obama's guy wouldn't have anything to yell about.

You just blamed Bush for not improving race relations you asshat.

And it's not like people here on this board haven't bashed Bush before over some of his associations over the last 6-7 years, so don't act like it's not old hat.
3/19/08 11:14 AM
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Brendasu
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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chris, what would it matter - you don't want to hear black people's opinions anyway.
3/19/08 11:16 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08
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I get it Frasier. You can stop spamming now. BTW, I don't care for McCain, so I'm not exactly sure why you're trying desperately (it seems) to change the topic. Feel free to start another thread. Brenda has a legitimate question here.
3/19/08 11:18 AM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 11:31 AM
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not to mention that if Fraser can just somehow show McCain has a friend who doesn't like gays or Catholics, then he doesn't have to ever worry about talking about Obama or Wright how can people not see how self destructive that is? "oh Mark Furhman used the word nigger 10 years ago, so its cool that we got OJ off". The reasoning there was supposedly that him using that word was "proof" of his racism, which was "proof" that there was a racist conspiracy against OJ, a guy who made a run for the border with a fake beard and a pile of cash. So everyone can feel good about getting one of their own off for murder even though he did it, because hey, the cops are racist so ... and if McCain has an advisor that has problems with Catholics, why we can all just talk about that and not ever have to look in the mirror and see what's wrong with our community. We can keep fomenting racism and looking to leaders like Farakan and Jesse Jackson, who are racist against Jews, and Wright and others who are racist against whites, and others who have a grudge against the USA for not being the kind of place they want it to be. As long as we can point a finger at someone else don't ever need to take the time to clean up our own backyard, its great how that works seriously, this shit is fucking disgusting. but what can you expect from people who's knight in shining armor threw his own grandmother under the bus with a "sure my preacher is racist but my grandma is too, in the other direction, so it all balances out" speech
3/19/08 11:18 AM
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Chris in Cambridge
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 11:26 AM
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"chris, what would it matter - you don't want to hear black people's opinions anyway." 1. That's a lie. Anyone who reads what I wrote can see that. 2. That's a non-answer. I think I got your real answer though. You're the kind of person who feels that it's just fine to let a little smear of racism slip if it will help them in an argument. I think I've got the measure of your character on this point. Thanks.
3/19/08 11:20 AM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: 19-Mar-08 11:27 AM
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"-no one ever asked me what i felt about that or if i believed it." no one ever asks your opinion on all this other stuff you favor us with, why should that lack of interest be the thing that stops you this time? "do i believe the AIDS thing? no. do i believe that some could reasonably come to that conclusion based on the actions of the u.s. government in the past? yes." you understand that people with AIDS weren't just injected with it by the government, right? they're getting it through their own actions. but hey, don't let that stop you from defending the views and logic of complete morons and people who make a living by stirring up race hatred

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