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4/15/08 2:41 PM
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Rickmassmma
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 I honestly stopped paying attention to election stuff a few weeks ago. When I was paying attention, here's what I was thinking:

McCain is ok...not great but he doesn't scare me too much. We know he's experienced, and at least we know where he stands on most issues. Whether we agree with him or not, we know enough about him to make a decision.

Hillary bothers me the most. She comes off very fake and she never really says anything about herself. Instead of telling us where she stands, and why she's better, she talks about why everyone else is worse. I really don't know much about her other than that she's a bad liar who the newspapers said should have dropped out a month ago.

Obama is a mystery man to me. Great speeches, big ideas, and tons of CHANGE, which is great for a nation unhappy with many things. However, he has lofty goals and doesn't seem to have a real plan as to how to do it. It'd be like me telling my GF that we're getting married in 6 months, honeymooning in hawaii for 3 weeks, buying a brand new house after the wedding and 2 new BMW's, all without putting us in debt forever. And when she says "wow that sounds amazing, how will we ever do that?" I somehow avoid telling her my plan (which has to be amazing because I have no where near the $ to pull this off) but somehow get her to still jump up with applause even though she has no idea why.

So here are my questions. While I'm not a republican or democrat, and don't follow either party more than the other, why do I know about McCain and not the others? Do you think the fact that McCain has already begun trying to win the presidental race instead of trying not to lose the democratic nomination will end up costing the democrats? McCain hasn't done anything mind bottling, yet he seems to be gathering momentum and I've pretty much stopped paying attention to the Dems. I think I'm a typical voter and I was planning on voting democrat this time around because I too wanted a change, but the dems have seemed to push me (and I suspect other average Joe voters) away. Why?

4/15/08 2:43 PM
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seg
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 You forgot that Obama also stands for Hope, in addition to Change.  That may alter your vote.

4/15/08 2:44 PM
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Seemore Butts
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 I've pretty much stopped paying attention to the Dems

Paying attention to Mccain is like paying attention to a Dem imo.

4/15/08 2:52 PM
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caleb
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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You also didnt mention that Obama sits through racial sermons at his church. lol... please, do yourself a favor and vote for Mccain. Unless you want the government in charge of your life, and you want to get taxed to death.
4/15/08 2:59 PM
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lastcall
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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Obama is also clearly aware that if your not from major metropolitan area your a bitter, minority hating, gun wielding, religious fanatic.

Oh wait I must have misinterpreted what he said.

Beep!!
4/15/08 3:02 PM
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jkrewko
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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In case you guys didn't know. The govt already runs your life. You Republican GWB has spent more money then any other president eveeeeeerrrr! wake up. They are all the same!

vote green or commie and your lives will be better
4/15/08 3:05 PM
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Rickmassmma
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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Also, McCain seems to be less of a pussy...and by pussy I mean liberal. I get frustrated with all the weird things being put in place to "protect" everyone. It seems you can't even hurt anyone's feelings anymore without being sued or fired. I could be reading this election wrong, but McCain seems to be less of a pussy than the others.
4/15/08 3:08 PM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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"Unless you want the government in charge of your life, and you want to get taxed to death. You have ignored this user." Right. Under McCain, the government is in charge of Iraqis lives, and your tax dollars will go towards Iraqi welfare. But that's better than a lib! Libs just want welfare for Americans. That's treason!
4/15/08 3:10 PM
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Downtown
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 Seriously, stop bashing on NObama. He knows what it's like to be a black man in the USKKKA. You don't.

4/15/08 3:11 PM
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Seemore Butts
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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Hey Rick,

No matter who you support whether it be Mccain or Obama, you will be supporting a big government liberal.

If you like a candidate that is socially liberal and fiscally responsible you should support the libertarian party. I have always been socially liberal (get rid of war, imperlism, more personal freedom etc) and fiscally resonsible (small government, low taxes, end welfare etc). If you think you would like something like that, check out this website http://lp.org.

A lot of people say voting LP is throwing a vote away. Voting for socialists like Mccain, Hillary or Obama is throwing your vote away imo.

4/15/08 3:12 PM
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attjack
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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The choice is clear. Vote McCain because he will take care of our friends the Iraqis. Obama will abandon our Iraqi friends and spend your money on Americans.
4/15/08 3:12 PM
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Seemore Butts
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 National Platform of the Libertarian Party


Adopted in Convention, July 2, 2006, Portland Oregon

Preamble

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.

Table of Contents

Statement of Principles

I. Individual Rights and Civil Order

1. Freedom and Responsibility
2. Freedom of Communication
3. Freedom of Religion
4. Property Rights
5. The Right to Privacy
6. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms
7. Conscription
8. Reproductive Rights
9. Sexuality and Gender

II. Trade and the Economy

1. Government Debt
2. Corporate Welfare, Monopolies & Subsidies
3. Public Services

III. Domestic Ills

1. Crime and Victimless Crime
2. The War on Drugs

IV. Foreign Affairs

1. Immigration

4/15/08 3:13 PM
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MetaDevil
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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McCain is a media darling. He believes all this maverick bullshit that the press spews about him. Google McCain+Maverick and then look at his voting record. The guy is a party-man through and through. In any event, your post sounds like you've bought the narrative being pushed by GOP spin-writers and media pundits whole hog, whether intentionally or not.
4/15/08 3:16 PM
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jkrewko
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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the majority of the political reasoning that is in these threads makes me want to barf

"""Also, McCain seems to be less of a pussy...and by pussy I mean liberal. I get frustrated with all the weird things being put in place to "protect" everyone. It seems you can't even hurt anyone's feelings anymore without being sued or fired. I could be reading this election wrong, but McCain seems to be less of a pussy than the others."""

r u fucking serious?? what does this even mean???

he seems like less of a pussy, dude this is why our country rates 42 in literacy , has the most expensive but least amount of people with health care coverage out of all the industrial nations in the world and also why 60% of our population actually believes in satan.

ugh, americans are idiots
4/15/08 3:18 PM
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Seemore Butts
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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McCain is a media darling. He believes all this maverick bullshit that the press spews about him. Google McCain+Maverick and then look at his voting record. The guy is a party-man through and through. In any event, your post sounds like you've bought the narrative being pushed by GOP spin-writers and media pundits whole hog, whether intentionally or not.

LMAO at Mccain being a "party-man", thats why he almost left the Republican party, and ran with Kerry in 04.

I repeat Mccain is not a republican, just because you want to stop pork barrel spending does not make you a conservative. I have listed many reasons why he is big government lib on many threads.

? For Mccain supporters
(96) [1142] by Seemore Butts - 1 2

Only people who believe the news would think Mccain is a Republican.

 

4/15/08 3:27 PM
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jkrewko
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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edited for bad grammer, i type with two fingers, who cares, still doesnt make me factually incorrec
4/15/08 3:35 PM
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MetaDevil
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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Only people who believe the news would think Mccain is a Republican.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20080414-0722-mccaintheconservative.html

"The likely Republican presidential nominee is much more conservative than voters appear to realize. McCain leans to the right on issue after issue, not just on the Iraq war but also on abortion, gay rights, gun control and other issues that matter to his party's social conservatives." Don't try to make him a lefty - he's not.
4/15/08 3:57 PM
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Rickmassmma
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 "r u fucking serious?? what does this even mean???

he seems like less of a pussy, dude this is why our country rates 42 in literacy , has the most expensive but least amount of people with health care coverage out of all the industrial nations in the world and also why 60% of our population actually believes in satan.

ugh, americans are idiots"

Joe...I use the term "pussy" to describe some of the crazy decisions I see in this country. In my mind, fat people are not handicapped. I think Imus getting fired for saying "nappy headed ho" was crazy. I think tons of the liberal bullshit is just that...bullshit. Everytime I hear a news story of an elementary school making a radical change in policy because some douche bag is making a stink because there was a sign that said "merry christmas" instead of  "happy holidays" I get upset. I understand why certain groups feel the way they do, but that doesn't make them right. It seems that currently in this country so many people in power...whether you're a politician or a principal at a school, have caved to pressure from small groups because they cry really loud.

Again, I'm using one example. Last year I remember someone getting pissed and making the news because they wanted it called a "holiday tree" instead of a christmas tree. This is a very unimportant example and certainly not the whole point, but this example should let you know the type of drastic liberal shit I hate. I refer to people who cave to pressure in situations like this as pussies. The person who was so concerned with not offending someone that they caved to "holiday tree" was a fucking pussy.

Mccain seems to be the least likely candidate to cater to small groups making big issues about small things.

4/15/08 4:05 PM
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Seemore Butts
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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"The likely Republican presidential nominee is much more conservative than voters appear to realize. McCain leans to the right on issue after issue, not just on the Iraq war but also on abortion, gay rights, gun control and other issues that matter to his party's social conservatives." Don't try to make him a lefty - he's not. You have ignored this user."

LMAO at people thinking mccain is a conservative, here are many of his flip flops, he is no different than Obama or Clinton, he tells people what they want to hear.

Flip Flop on Abortion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQU0TF18ZfI&feature=related

Gay Rights (it should be human rights, not gay rights) flip flop on gay marriage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBw28tX5Nw

Iraq War flip flop saying we are a failure in Iraq!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jul_Aia50Qo

 

 

 

 

 

4/15/08 4:27 PM
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Rickmassmma
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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nobody answered my original questions. Instead of mocking everything, tell me a little about who you like and why. Don't tell me why McCain sucks...tell me something good about another candidate. I really hate the way the news covers politics, so I'm taking my voting advice from the OG.
4/15/08 4:44 PM
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baxter stockman
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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this is probably the most disenchanting election year i've experienced, and, jesus titty-fucking christ, that's saying a lot.

the overall attention span of humans (and american humans, in particular) is so fucking clock-choked that any given issue, no matter how out of proportions, irrelevant, disingenuous, misinterpreted, pointless, or ineffectual, has the ability to become THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. all that need be done is the question posed the right way by major media outlets.

i'm not even sure the media deserves that much blame. sure, they're for-profit corporate entities with no obligation to anyone besides share holders and, of course, they're habitually given to sensationalism for the sake of those profits, but, fuck, people should understand that, shouldn't they?

we don't, though. we're fucking busy. and lazy. and dim-witted. and willfully, wontonly, woefully ignorant. so, when we flop down on the couch, and we turn on cnn, the arbiter of newsworthy newsiness, and "the experts" are TOTALLY OBSESSED with some topic, then that must be the most important matter at hand, right?

but, obviously, it's often not the most important matter at hand. is what some friend of hillary's or obama's reverend are saying -- particularly when these kinds of things are reported with completely yellow journalism for the sake of their controvery -- really anywhere near as important as what the candidates are on record as having said are the problems and the solutions? no. but they sure as shit aren't as boring boring as that stuffy ol' technical stuff.

"newsworthy" is not equal accross the board and i think these pittiful little tabloid stories that become the talk of the nation would have a lot less weight if we as a nation actually understood the candidates and could take them in context and with a real understandig of the source, rather than them BEING our sources of understanding.

what we "know" about candidates is essentially on the level of what highschool kids know about one another - are they popular, are they "nice", and are they associated with the same kind of people as me. i'd be a lot less likely to sit through the political news without my mind wandering if it weren't basically a bunch of fanatics acting like 16-year-old girls about shallow stories that will be replaced with other ones a week later, but i'd also be a lot more confident throwing the lever come november.

for the sake of limiting frattitude, i'll stop before going into other insanity like the two-party system we've locked ourselves into and the blind fanboyism that has become US politics.

 

4/15/08 4:51 PM
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baxter stockman
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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 i used to have the same opinion, bubblebass, but, honestly, i think it's an unfortunate reality that obama's more likely to pick candidates entirely on their merit than would be mccain. in the wake of the most diverse group of serious candidates in history, mccain would be hard-pressed to include minorities for the same of including minorities.

we've seen this before and, while it's not hard to find a good minority candidate to the job, it's often impossible to find a good minority candidate who'll fall in line with the administration's agenda. so, the highest common denominator is selected. sometimes, though, meeting one criteria rules out a lot of superior options. it sounds awful, and i honestly feel shitty saying it, but it's been the case in recent administrations.

we've seen it in clarence thomas, who sucks, condoleza rice is, who's very, very competent, but plays bush role FAR too much, and colin powell, who's awesome, but couldn't keep up the bullshit.

essentially, my argument is that, if we're gonna have criteria besides just being the most qualified for the job undermining cabinet appointment, i'd like to limit it to cronyism, rather than ensuring it'll include affirmative action cronyism, too.

4/15/08 4:58 PM
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sonicbionic
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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I'm not a Democrat, I'm an independent and I vote for whoever I think the best candidate is. I voted for Florida's Republican governor, for example--but I didn't vote for Bush. I voted for the first Bush, though.

Anyway, you say Obama has lofty ideas but doesn't seem to have much a plan. Sometimes, a country needs lofty ideas to rally around. I think (and I could be wrong) that the post-war boom in America had a lot to do with a leader who had lofty ideas for the country. It got the people behind him, gave them something to look forward to, gave them positive attitudes, and that was the main thing that got people going. These are my own personal opinions based on "intuition" more than anything, so I expect people to not agree with me here.

Right now I'm leaning towards Obama because I think this country needs some idealism right now. We feel kind of aimless and disenfranchised as a nation, I think (obviously this doesn't apply to EVERYBODY). That doesn't mean I've ruled out McCain, though. Ultimately it's going to hinge on whether Obama seems like he's going to further the Nanny State more than I'm willing to tolerate.
4/15/08 5:24 PM
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caleb
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Edited: Apr 15 2008 12:00A
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"Right now I'm leaning towards Obama" Why do you hate America?

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