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PoliticalGround >> the most accurate depiction of last night's debate


4/17/08 12:05 PM
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Shawn C
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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jason hornbuckle - i don't even know what that means
I mean my argument is Obama offers details beyond just saying "hope and change".

Don't ask me to defend his ideas.
4/17/08 12:10 PM
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pneuma
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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"He came up with such tired tripe as a charge that Obama once associated with a nutty bomb-throwing anarchist. That was "40 years ago, when I was 8 years old," Obama said with exasperation."

I agree the Obama's relationship with the domestic terrorist Bill Ayers is not much of a relationship at all. It appears the two associated with each other in Chicago as people who represented overlapping causes in the same city. But it wasn't "40 years ago, when I was 8 years old", it was when Obama was an Illinois State Senator. He went to several meetings/fundraisers at Ayers' house. It should be an issue that legislatiors meet at the home of someone like Ayers, that Ayers teaches at a local university and has a position of some power within Chicago's political machine. But it doesn't seem to me he did anything outside of what any leftwing politician has done. Obama didn't put the guy in these positions, the left/Democratic party did.

For those who don't know, Ayers wasn't just some "nutty bomb-throwing" guy, he was a specialist in making explosives for the Weather Underground. His house in Greenwich Village exploded, killing some of his compatriots, while he was constructing a bomb to blow up a US military base. The New York Times, that shamless citadel of left causes, ran a hagiographic article on Ayers and his wife, extoling his virtues. In the article, Ayers says I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.”

The New York Times Ran that story on the morning of September 11th, 2001.

Genius!
4/17/08 12:25 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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i would seriously question anyone who knowingly associates with a person who brags about bombing American targets and says they're not at all sorry about doing it i don't care how long ago they did it, as long as they're still proud of it you shouldn't even want to be in the same room as they are
4/17/08 12:35 PM
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StrikeAnywhere
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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 I thought ABC was horrible and not from the "oh no they're asking Obama tough questions" standpoint but from the "why are they wasting the first hour talking about stupid crap that's been done to death" like flag pins and snipers

 

THey asked Obama some tough questions on the economy and that was perfectly fine with me cause it was shit that actually is relevent not some stupid crap about a flag pin or if he was at the house of some old hippy crazy dude.

4/17/08 12:46 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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" Yes jason, he was so proud and not at all sorry about the issue he turned himself in to authorities in 1980." he just recently said he didn't think they did enough. the dude thinks he's a hero, him turning himself in has nothing to do with anything
4/17/08 12:50 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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Characterizing Weatherman as "an American Red Army," Ayers summed up the organization's ideology as follows: "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents."
4/17/08 12:51 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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In his most recent screed, Fugitive Days, Ayers recounts his life as a Sixties radical, his tenure as a Weatherman lieutenant, his terrorist campaign across America, and his enduring hatred for for the United States. "What a country," Ayers said in 2001. "It makes me want to puke."
4/17/08 12:52 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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In Fugitive Days, Ayers reflects on whether or not he might use bombs against the U.S. in the future. "I can't imagine entirely dismissing the possibility," he writes.
4/17/08 12:53 PM
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attjack
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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That debate was a farce. Just plain awful. This is what we can expect from the media these days.
4/17/08 12:54 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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 ^ so this is the guy that Obama is associating with now. Not some guy who set a bomb 40 years ago, but a guy who says he might set more bombs in the future and that he hates America anyway

 

I seriously don't get how you can be an Obama supporter and not care at all that he's surrounded himself with people who are basically insane

4/17/08 12:55 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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" That debate was a farce. Just plain awful. This is what we can expect from the media these days." but you were fine with it when it was a farce going the other way against Hillary, right?
4/17/08 12:57 PM
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Seul
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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It seems to me that no presidential candidate will really get black and white about what they're going to do if elected; this seems right and good to me.

If you distinguish between strategy (the overall aim) and tactics (the individual techniques used to achieve them), people always seem to need to hear tactics or the candidate is "waffling" or whatever other little soundbite they like to repeat that confirmed their baseless prejudices. Why? Tactics need to change to fit the situation; sometimes a tax cut for the middle class is in order, some times it's not. It depends on the goals and the situation.

I'm a lot more interested in hearing about the candidate's goals and overall aims to improve the country.

Another thing that pisses me off is when someone says that a candidate is "just good at talking"; what else are they gong to do? they can't act as president until they're elected. They're SUPPOSED to spend most of their time talking right now; if they don't someone else who DID is going to get elected.
4/17/08 12:58 PM
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Trust
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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 Ok, so Ayers should be locked away, but what, exactly is the realtionship between Obama and Ayers? I haven't seen much other than they were in the same place at the same time...

 

4/17/08 12:58 PM
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Moke
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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I didn't watch it but I heard Hilary said she now believes Obama is a winnable candidate against McCain. Only a week or so ago she leaked that she had information about Obama that will completely sink his campaign. Her comment last night only tells me that the party has sat her down and promised her something (I have no idea what) to keep a lid on that information and play nice.

I want to know what it was.

4/17/08 12:59 PM
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Daredevil73
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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rufus - 

 or if he was at the house of some old hippy crazy dude.

You really think that associating with unrepentant terrorists isn't a relevant topic for discussion?

 


 The typical cycle of critisism against Obama.

First, they attempt to stand by their words or actions.

When they see that's hurting them even worse, they try to play it off like it isn't a big deal.

4/17/08 1:01 PM
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Up With Evil
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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Gaze has run The Correct up the flagpole, and I for one salute.
4/17/08 1:07 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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"random characters from years ago, and trivial crap."

i agree but neither Wright nor Ayers are "from years ago" or "trival"
4/17/08 1:11 PM
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attjack
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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Obama won the debate by staying above the trash. But it doesn't excuse ABC's terrible job at moderating.
4/17/08 1:15 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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"Are they his advisors?"

Obama called Wright his advisor. I don't know how you know more about their relationship than he does, but i guess whatever you say is how it really is
4/17/08 1:23 PM
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taba
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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The whole why-don't-we-talk-about-the-issues whine is childish. Obama and Hillary have extraordinarily similar declared programs by this point. The only real surviving differences between them are what parts of their declared programs do they really intend to follow through on, and which unstated agendas will they also pursue.

Simply allowing them to blather for an hour each about nearly-indistinguishable programmatic posturings does not advance the debate whatsoever. If you want to know what crap they're claiming they'll push as President, check their websites.

What distinguishes them among Democrats are issues of character (Hillary's lying, Obama's discomforting comfort with radicals and terrorists) and the widespread belief on the left that Hillary is a "neocon" moderate who lies about her liberal leanings, whereas Obama is the general article and really believes in old school big-L Liberalism, and is in fact lying about his moderation to preserve his electability.

Only by asking about issues of character and background and a candidate's real, unexpressed political thinking can possibly shed light as to whether those readings on the candidate are true or not.

http://minx.cc/?post=260428
4/17/08 1:24 PM
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StrikeAnywhere
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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rufus - 

 or if he was at the house of some old hippy crazy dude.

You really think that associating with unrepentant terrorists isn't a relevant topic for discussion?

 


 well unless the association involves Obama asking where to set the bombs or asking him for policy advice then I think it's supremely less relevent then stuff like the war and economy


 

4/17/08 1:38 PM
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guy1
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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jason hornbuckle - i would seriously question anyone who knowingly associates with a person who brags about bombing American targets and says they're not at all sorry about doing it i don't care how long ago they did it, as long as they're still proud of it you shouldn't even want to be in the same room as they are


 That is pretty much exactly how I feel about his association with Jerimiah Wright.  There are idiots everywhere but it comes down to personal judgement as far as wanting to be associated with them.

 

 

4/17/08 1:40 PM
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THAGE
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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 Jason H.- Your right, he did at one point call wright his spiritual advisor, but explain to me what that has to do with him being president?

Isn't that the line that conservatives have used for years?

"Oh don't mind Pat Robertson calling for that asassination of a sitting world leader on national TV, he's only one of Bush's spiritual leaders."

Time and time again when controversy surrounded preachers that were close to Bush, the country was told to just relax, since we have a "seperation of church & state" (lol) it shouldnt matter what these pastors told Bush/Obama, because their religion won't influence the way the govern.

4/17/08 1:41 PM
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attjack
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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"Do you believe in the flag?" Yes, bitch, I've seen it. What a great question. lol
4/17/08 1:59 PM
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FightWatcher
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Edited: Apr 17 2008 12:00A
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 LOL @ the retards pounding on the Weathermen.. A total non-issue.

Question? How many people actually died from the terrorist attacks of the Weathermen?

Aside from the two cops who were killed by ex-Weathermen David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin during a bank robbery in '81, there were none.

Ayers turned himself in 28 years ago.


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