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4/30/08 8:22 AM
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Joe Ray
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Edited: Apr 30 2008 12:00A
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..right wingers, Republicans etc...

What is your opinion on the works of the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche?

Thanks.
4/30/08 8:24 AM
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EvilMaster
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Edited: 05/07/08 4:12 AM
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Don't whip a horse around him!
4/30/08 8:37 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Edited: Apr 30 2008 12:00A
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Joe,

As you know, I am far from a Republican, yet I do consider myself a "fan" of Nietzschean philosophy. I have read most of his major works, and have thought deeply on most of them.

In my opinion, Nietzsche got a lot of a bad rap because of the hijacking of his ideas by the Nazis and the Anti-Semites after his madness. Specifically, his sister, Elizabeth Forester-Neitzsche was a blatant anti-Semite who was key in trying to "anti-Jew" his writings. Its easy to see her influence, especially in the release of "The Will To Power" after Nietzsche's death, and her heavy handed editing of his works. In addition, religious conservatives nowadays refuse to look deeply at his work because of his seemingly "Anti-Jesus" stance, but even a cursory examination would show that his main beef was actually with the organized church.

I personally take Nietzsche's works as those of self-improvement. The "ubermensch" is not some super-being that is to be crafted from genetic matrial or other means, but rather a self-realization of your own personal potential. I like the idea that I determine my own "values" not because some outer authority dictated them to me, but because I critically evaluated them and determined them to be correct for me. I take pride in the fact that, even though I do have physical limitations and drawbacks that some people may not have, I push myself for that self-actualization and to become my own personal "ubermensch". And yes, I do hope that the next generation, when my wife and I have a child, surpasses everything that I have ever done, and makes my personal ubermensch look pathetic to their ubermensch.

I'd go on more, but I'd like to know your views as well before continuing.
4/30/08 8:55 AM
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LiveWire
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Edited: Apr 30 2008 12:00A
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 I missed out on existential philosophy in college. What did Nietschze say on religion?

5/6/08 7:53 AM
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Joe Ray
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Thanks for the reply chocolate shatner.

What really struck me about Nietzsche was how he detailed how the things that contemporary modern society considers to be good, such as equality, compassion for the poor, sick and vulnerable, acting selflessly etc are actually very bad.

Bad in the sense that holding these beliefs and practicing that sort of morality is in fact very damaging to the individual self.

I had always thought that the compassionate ideal of selfless action as presented in the gospels and through Buddhism was the highest moral ideal that existed.

nietzsche comes along and destroys that assumption.

Note: Nietzsche doesn;t consider compassion, pity, selflessness to be completely abd things, he is only against them when they are held up to be the highest of values. He believes they deserve a place far down the hierachy of values.

I also think nietzsche is a psychologist par excellence. the influence of his work can easily be seen through the writings of Freud, Adler and Jung.
5/6/08 8:14 AM
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Revolver of Reason
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"


He believes they deserve a place far down the hierachy of values."


Nietzeche also ended up crazy as a shithouse rat and one of his last acts before dying was kissing a horse that was being whipped by a cruel master on the street.

5/6/08 8:16 AM
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Joe Ray
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Edited: 05/06/08 8:17 AM
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"Nietzeche also ended up crazy as a shithouse rat and one of his last acts before dying was kissing a horse that was being whipped by a cruel master on the street."



Actually that was his last conscious act before he collapsed and entered the madhouse



Do you believe his mental illness later in life makes his philosophy invalid?



I certainly don't. 


As a libertarian, what is your opinion of Nietzsche's philosophy?

5/6/08 8:26 AM
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Moke
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I think he liked the cocaine. Anything else?
5/6/08 8:36 AM
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Revolver of Reason
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 "Do you believe his mental illness later in life makes his philosophy invalid?"




I think his philosophy more or less drove him crazy, hence partially invalidating his primary goals in creating the philosophy.


He actually reduced his übermensch quotient by creating the philosophy.


"As a libertarian, what is your opinion of Nietzsche's philosophy?"


yet more evidence Germans should stick to engineering, beer-making and funny car commercials and stay the fuck away from philosophy and politics. and I say this as a German-American.


thanks for the correction, you're right about that.

5/6/08 8:38 AM
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unclephilly
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...that which does not kill me...
5/6/08 8:39 AM
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Revolver of Reason
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 usually results in partial paralyzation and/or herpes

5/6/08 3:54 PM
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liquifaction
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 as a voting repub I would have to say



 

5/6/08 3:58 PM
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tsunaminw
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another desperate attempt to validate joe rays socialist views, and to vent his anger because somebody took away his stapler.
5/6/08 6:18 PM
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Trust
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liquifaction - 

 as a voting repub I would have to say







 



Nietzsche is dead. 


I am not, however, and that chick is friggin hot.

 

5/6/08 6:31 PM
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BrainofPJ
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I am not a conservative, but Nietzsche is an amazing philosopher. He covers many interesting things in depth, although I do think his moral/religious philosophy in the Genealogy is particularly good..
5/7/08 4:11 AM
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Joe Ray
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"Why do you ask Cons only?"

Because Nietzsche is considered by some to be a conservative.

I'd say he is a conservative of sorts, in the sense that he believes in a powerful arsitocracy and a strict hierarchy governing society.

But he is very different from the average 21st century conservative.
5/7/08 5:07 AM
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BrainofPJ
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One of the problems about studying Nietzsche is that it can be hard to pin down exactly what his positive beliefs are. Also, I think given the nature of his philosophy, its pretty difficult to find good examples of his ideal types in real life. If anything, you would probably be best looking in literature or myth!
5/7/08 5:51 AM
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Joe Ray
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Amongst other things, Buddhism teaches that you practice selflessness, compassion etc.
5/7/08 5:57 AM
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jimmy23
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 Niestche palnted a bomb in the Western collective consciousness that is till blowing shit up. He was a brilliant, brilliant writer, someone well worth reading


 


see, h is talking about the OG with this qoute


 


Anyone who has declared someone else to be an idiot, a bad apple, is annoyed when it turns out in the end that he isn't.

Friedrich Nietzsche

5/8/08 7:10 AM
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Joe Ray
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ttt
5/8/08 7:54 AM
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pneuma
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"What is your opinion on the works of the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche?"

My opinion is that he had a very strong influence on the socialist movements, such as the Nazis.
5/8/08 11:26 AM
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Joe Ray
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Pneuma, please elaborate....
5/8/08 1:13 PM
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jimmy23
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 "My opinion is that he had a very strong influence on the socialist movements, such as the Nazis."


 


the ironic part is he despised the Nazis and their predecessors, history is funny


 


In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.

Friedrich Nietzsche

5/9/08 4:59 AM
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Joe Ray
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Yep Nietzsche was no Nazi. He abhorored anti-semitism, nationalism, mass movements and I'm sure he would have seen that the Nazis' rise, fuelled as it was from the bitterness of defeat in WW1, was based on that most hated of Nietzschean motives, resentment

But with regard to other socialist movements, such as Marxist and european socialist democratic movements, you must be one very strange socialist to be influenced by Nietzsche. He loathed socialism with a passion equal to his loathing of Christianity.

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