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PoliticalGround >> Obama on Iraq


5/5/08 12:35 PM
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zealot66
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 part of the problem is it is going to be a generation of living under freedom for the mindset to change. Think if you had been raised abused, ( think a girl molested by dad for years ) then dad dies and you expect her to have a good relationship sexually with men. Aint happening.


Second problem is the same damn problem they had in vietnam. They are using the weight of conventional forces to exterminate the bad guys. This is never going to happen. And the special ops community is on the brink of collapse due to constant deployment to both AO's. This is a war of intelligence. Which was gutted by bill clintons admin. Now they are finally coming back up to speed on humint. human beings who know where the bad guys are. The army has just now after 7 years of war come up with a standard counter insurgency doctrine that is being used at the company and platoon level.  We are fighting a new war in asymetrical terms. Urban counter insurgency. its a time consuming process. COIN operations take alot of skill and takes time to develop. its very complicated.


They need to shut down the borders with IRAN. although this is impossible, its known that just like in vietnam, there is safe haven over the border. So do we risk striking inside iran or not ? or Pakistan, although we are operating in small numbers in pakistan.


Its a war of patience. Obama doesnt know jack shit about warefare. Let him stick to basketball.

5/5/08 12:59 PM
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Govnor
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If Obama is the next President, a very large reason will be because the public believe it is time to shut up shop in Iraq. So, it really doesn't matter what any military person thinks, because he/she is serviing their country, and their country has decided that it is time to leave.


At this point Obama is duty bound to end the war in Iraq if he gets in.


 

5/5/08 1:00 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 05/05/08 1:09 PM
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HombreMurcielago - I really like Barack Hussein Obama's message of hope and change.


He is a breadth of fresh air imo.


Getting us out of Iraq is just one of the obvious changes he would bring. Do you actually read the threads, or just spout sarcasm no matter what Obama might actually be proposing?


zealot66 - This is a war of intelligence. Which was gutted by bill clintons admin.


LOL

It was just a matter of time before this war became Bill Clinton's fault somehow.
5/5/08 1:26 PM
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When America pulls out of the region they will create a power vacuum. Who is going to fill this vacuum? My hunch is Iran. In effect this withdrawl will have exponentially weakened America, and give Iran the opportunity to strengthen herself.

I don't feel that Taliban support is the measure of Al Qaida's influence/power. Obviously they are "fully mobolized" as of now, and likely just as strong as they were pre 9/11.
5/5/08 1:32 PM
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What will happen to America's military bases/infastructure in the event of a pullout?
5/5/08 1:38 PM
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PatK
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Obama is fucking high if he thinks that we can pull out in two years, from a logistics standpoint.


Unless we want to spend a lot more money on what is already considered a drain.

5/5/08 2:04 PM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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 Iran is definitely stronger now than before.  Don't forget that China and Russia have been arming them to the teeth.  Believe it or not, other countries have a strategic intestest in the ME too, and for them it's about oil.  I know for us it's supposed to be about peace, love and understanding Muslims, but to just about everyone else, it's about long term energy needs.


 

5/5/08 2:04 PM
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attjack
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It's sad that so many people don't understand the huge favor we for Iran.
5/5/08 2:43 PM
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Ridgeback
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 The whole issue is an interventionist policy overseas in the first place.  How the US deals with trying to make it happen (it won't) is far less important that dealing with the large strategic plans of foreign policy.  The US either needs to be a peaceful republic that uses trade to interact with other countries, or another silly empire that will burn itself to the ground.  What the hell is the US really going to do in Afghanistan long term? 

5/5/08 2:45 PM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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 The Republicans used to be counted on to NOT be the world's policeman, which is why I preferred their foreign policy to the Dems.  But now the roles are reversed, and if people would stop blindly following their party and use some common sense, they'd see Iraq as the folly it is.   But since a Republican did it, they follow this course to the grave. It's tragic that the American public is so easily led and misled.


 

5/5/08 3:09 PM
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attjack
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urb - Alot of people don't understand that high ranking officials in the Iraqi Government are Iranian spys or the very least extremely close friends. Iran has influence in every level of Iraqi government.

Iraq and Iran are made up the same people. Only Saddam's iron fist was able to keep them apart.
5/5/08 3:12 PM
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Shawn C
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"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah" - Osama bin Laden
Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/
5/5/08 3:17 PM
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attjack
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Bin Laden used the same strategy to bitch slap the Russians. A government that would walk into this obvious trap is a monumental and miserable failure.

The only way to fix the predicament we're in is to get out of Iraq, and make wise moves in Afghanistan. McCain is incapable of this. We have one foot in the tar and McCain wants to put the other in, and both hands too.
5/5/08 3:36 PM
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Shawn C
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Kurdish rebels threaten suicide attacks against US

By YAHYA BARZANJI, Associated Press Writer
Mon May 5, 9:57 AM ET

QANDIL MOUNTAINS, Iraq - Kurdish rebels could launch suicide attacks against American interests to punish the U.S. for sharing intelligence with Turkey after Turkey bombed rebel bases, a spokeswoman for a wing of a rebel group warned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080505/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_kurdish_rebels_1
5/5/08 3:37 PM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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Liberal spin aside, this is very good news.

5/5/08 3:39 PM
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BigEyedFish
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Attjack, Im pretty sure that you were one of the people claiming that Bush wanted to go into Iraq when he was elected, and started to plan accordingly. This was before 911. Now you claim he walked into a trap set by OBL. Does this really make sense to you (it does, doesnt it)?
5/5/08 3:59 PM
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Lite
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Edited: 05/05/08 3:59 PM
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BigEyedFish - Once this pressure is felt, and illustrated through a successful operation in Iraq (assuming that is possible/iminent), then the hopes would be that regional governments, fearing the same fate as the Taliban/Saddam regimes will not be so passive when dealing with terrorist operations/institutionalized Islamic Fundamentalists in the madrassas and schools.



And so blowback is made. I don't think a strong humbling "presence" is the answer, because the people in these countries don't think "Oh, I don't want that to happen to me!" Stupid though it may be, they put their pride even ahead of their lives. Like everyone, the people there want to think that they and their beliefs and affiliations are great and special, and humiliation is only going to awake an even stronger desire for revenge and to affirm the "specialness" of thier beliefs with extreme actions. There are no athiests in foxholes, the saying goes, and we've tripled the amount of people over there that live in foxholes. Moderation and a reasonable consideration of the odds will not be the response.

I don't believe in any quick withdrawal, but damn. It is not an irrelevant "blame game" to look back at the criminally stupid decision to invade Iraq, exercise some kind of accountability, so we don't make this same mistake in the future.

This whole misguided fiasco has cost us 517,060,000,000 dollars so far.
5/5/08 4:09 PM
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BigEyedFish
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"AQ attacks have gone up worldwide recent reports have stated. "



Gone up since when? How about a little perspective. Please post a source on this so that I can respond. What I said was reasonable. Im not speaking like Bill clinton.
5/5/08 4:24 PM
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attjack
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BigEyedFish - Attjack, Im pretty sure that you were one of the people claiming that Bush wanted to go into Iraq when he was elected, and started to plan accordingly. This was before 911. Now you claim he walked into a trap set by OBL. Does this really make sense to you (it does, doesnt it)?

You are correct. Bush was itching to invade Iraq before he took office. All the more reason for Bin Laden to give the green light on 911 attacks. Additionally, if you rule out complicity on the part of the Bush administration you're being foolish. Do not forget that there was a report well in advance that AQ was going to fly airplanes into our buildings. Ask yourself how could the administration have dropped that ball? Lastly do not forget that Bush Sr. was meeting with Bin Laden on 911.
5/5/08 4:26 PM
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attjack
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BigEyedFish - "AQ attacks have gone up worldwide recent reports have stated. "




Gone up since when? How about a little perspective. Please post a source on this so that I can respond. What I said was reasonable. Im not speaking like Bill clinton.

Why do you attempt to enter these discussions when you're obviously not up to date on the facts?
5/5/08 4:28 PM
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BigEyedFish
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lol ok, so no one has a source. I get it.
5/5/08 4:34 PM
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Edited: 05/05/08 4:34 PM
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The whole issue is an interventionist policy overseas in the first place. How the US deals with trying to make it happen (it won't) is far less important that dealing with the large strategic plans of foreign policy. The US either needs to be a peaceful republic that uses trade to interact with other countries, or another silly empire that will burn itself to the ground.

No offense, but this shows a complete-- COMPLETE-- lack of historical perspective. The United States has, for quite some time, intervened in the affairs of other nations when and where it pleased our leaders.

To imagine that somehow the United States rose to prominence in this world by simply "trading peacefully" with other nations is certainly myopic and borders on the outright ignorant.

You're usually an intelligent poster, Ridgeback.
5/5/08 4:35 PM
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attjack
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Edited: 05/05/08 4:35 PM
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BigEyedFish - lol ok, so no one has a source. I get it.

Google motherfucker. Multiple reports have come out each year since 911 revealing this fact. When we're talking about known facts the impetus is upon you to provide yourself with basic education.
5/5/08 4:38 PM
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The Republicans used to be counted on to NOT be the world's policeman, which is why I preferred their foreign policy to the Dems. But now the roles are reversed, and if people would stop blindly following their party and use some common sense, they'd see Iraq as the folly it is. But since a Republican did it, they follow this course to the grave. It's tragic that the American public is so easily led and misled.

You are so continuously dumb that I wonder how it is you manage to turn on the computer, much less peck away at your keyboard in order to fill this board with nonsense.

America's role as a "policeman" transcends and pre-dates the current explanation of Republican/Democrat. If your ultimate goal in life is to imitate the thought process of an amoeba, keep up your ridiculous partisanship.
5/5/08 4:38 PM
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Google motherfucker. Multiple reports have come out each year since 911 revealing this fact. When we're talking about known facts the impetus is upon you to provide yourself with basic education.

Do the numbers back out the attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan?

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