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PoliticalGround >> So Can We Stick A Fork In Hillory ?


5/7/08 5:13 PM
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pneuma
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"You are so correct! It has nothing to do with his stance on lobbyists controlling Washington, his stance on Iraq, his stance on how the WOT is being conducted, his stance on the way politics is run through fear and lies, etc. It is all white guilt!!! "

You're correct. Nothing.

First, Obama, for all his talk of change and being a politician outside the mold, has never done anything significant to change the process or the policies of how government is run. Never. Not once. And he's been in office 16 years.

This is an election platform, not what he's going to do.

He is not going to change lobbying rules. He has fed at the lobbyist trough for too long. He's been talking about how bad lobbyists are while taking millions from them.

It is very doubtful Obama is going to pull troops out of Iraq. Several of his foreign policy staffers have said that publicly.

And you may want to look into Chicago politics. Second to New Orleans, it's the dirtiest game in the country-- and Obama is from there. He is no politician cut from a different cloth. He's just a standard, regular politician who's feeding you what you wwant to hear to get elected.

Hell, he's said he was always againt the war, but in fact he wasn't-- in '04 he said on Meet the Press that he was in full agreement with George Bush.

You may want to do some reading.
5/7/08 5:18 PM
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pfsjkd
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what's your point? what percentage of the population did you think are "racist rednecks"? more than 4% of the general population of the US?


My point is that there are far more white people who will vote against a black candidate because he's black than blacks who will vote for him because he's black.  If you think only 4% of white people feel this way you're kidding yourself.

5/7/08 5:19 PM
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bluedragon
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Edited: 05/07/08 5:20 PM
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bwahahahahah

OK pneuma. Whatever you say. 9.7
5/7/08 8:36 PM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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 Pnuema makes a good point. Voting for Obama is really no different than voting for Hillary and McCain. So what's the big deal?


 


 

5/7/08 10:08 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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"My point is that there are far more white people who will vote against a black candidate because he's black than blacks who will vote for him because he's black. If you think only 4% of white people feel this way you're kidding yourself."


it would have to be enough whites to be 4% of the general population, not 4% of whites. and you've got Hillary winning the white vote 60/40 or something like that in most of these states, and Obama winning the black vote 90/10 or better. Hillary vs McCain is maybe split 52/48 among whites. so how many of those people are voting for McCain in McCain/Hillary because of racism? seems to me that she's getting who she'd get in the general election and not many more in these primary votes

so unless you think that ever single white person who votes for Hillary is doing so solely out of racism, it seems pretty arguable that there's more black racism than white racism in this election.
5/7/08 10:31 PM
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pfsjkd
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 I think you're discounting a lot of people who aren't voting in the primaries that will come out in the general election in order to stop Obama (if he gets the ticket).

5/7/08 10:40 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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lol, ok dude. the country is full of imaginary "racist rednecks" then? "oh you can't see them, but just wait til the general election, then they're coming out to stop him!".

what about black voters? none of them will turn out extra heavy to get Obama elected for racist reasons?

give me a break. lots of people are voting against Obama because he's a terrible candidate and not qualified at all for the job. He hangs out with racists and unrepentant terrorists and then doesn't have the sense to denounce them or distance himself from them. that's why he's having a hard time, not because anyone on the white end of things cares what color he is

btw, the KKK endorsed Obama over Hillary. i'm not sure how that figures into your "racists against Obama" world view, but i'm sure it proves your point some way or another
5/7/08 10:53 PM
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bluedragon
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"then doesn't have the sense to denounce them or distance himself from them"

So that is where fauxnews cuts off the clips?
5/7/08 11:10 PM
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pfsjkd
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 what about black voters? none of them will turn out extra heavy to get Obama elected for racist reasons?

 


They already are.  But again, they are a MINORITY.  Not that hard to understand.


btw, the KKK endorsed Obama over Hillary.


I'd like to see a source for this, but regardless, the KKK doesn't speak for all white supremacists or racists.

5/8/08 1:28 AM
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attjack
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jason hornbuckle - ...


what about black voters? none of them will turn out extra heavy to get Obama elected for racist reasons?

.....

btw, the KKK endorsed Obama over Hillary. i'm not sure how that figures into your "racists against Obama" world view, but i'm sure it proves your point some way or another

Well seeing as how the black folk might see themselves as equals to us white folk, and seeing how there never has been a black person in the office because of a horrible history of enslavement, segregation, and prejudice, it's possible that the extra black vote Obama may enjoy isn't exactly something you would classify as racist. But you might have to be capable of empathy to grasp that.

Interesting that you're so up on your KKK politics, Jason.
5/8/08 9:18 AM
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jason hornbuckle
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Edited: 05/08/08 10:56 AM
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there was a thread about the KKK endorsement here a while back, smartass





" and seeing how there never has been a black person in the office because of a horrible history of enslavement, segregation, and prejudice"





and here i thought that we'd never had a black President because THERE'S NEVER BEEN A QUALIFIED BLACK PERSON WHO RAN FOR PRESIDENT



but hey, yeah, America is evil because we didn't elect Jesse Jackson back in the 80's. whatever


its pathetic that your "empathy" allows you to give black racists a pass. Voting for someone based on the color of their skin is racism, nothing could be more obvious, and that's all many black people are doing. But hey, that's ok, because since they've had such a hard time historically we'll just judge black people by a completely different standard. Forget the fact that half of the people voting in such a racist manner probably have never suffered one incident of real racism in their lives


 

5/8/08 11:15 AM
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StrikeAnywhere
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jason hornbuckle - 

why wouldn't they? you act like going to the convention is something that's never been done before. if they were so concerned with ending it early, they'd have made a choice by now


 



Why wouldn't they?   Ummmm....in case you haven't noticed the dem primary has become rather divisive.  They party wants this thing to be over now on June 3rd (so the voters in these last states can still feel a part of the decision and not feel like superdelegates negated their influence) and it will be cause a large bulk of supers will support the person leading in pledged delegates and popular vote and then they immediately want the party to start uniting.    Waiting until August serves no purpose whatsoever other then to keep Hillary and Obama focused on each other and not McCain.


pneuma - "There's no way the superdelegates are going to let it go to the convention. "



You lack a fundamental understanding of the process. While the superdelegates can declare their intentions, they don't actually cast their vote until they're at the convention. So, technically, whenever the Superdelegates have control, it always goes to the convention.


No shit sherlock.  I think most people would have enough reading comprehension to realize what I was referring to.   Enough supers are going to declare support for Obama after June 3rd that Hillary will be forced to end her campaign because he'll comfortably already have the number he needs to be the presumptive nominee.  It won't go to a brokered convention because Clinton will have dropped out before then.  No one in the DNC wants it to go that far and will ensure that it won't.  I was reading a story the other day where a Clinton aide said there would be one nominee by June 15 (inferring that she would drop out on that day).

 

5/8/08 11:28 AM
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jason hornbuckle
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 One of Obama's super delegates just changed camps though, didn't he? doesn't seem like Clinton is anywhere near dropping out to me



5/8/08 1:13 PM
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StrikeAnywhere
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 No, there hasn't been any Obama supers to switch to hillary as far as I know.   She did gain 1 after NC primary but that was a NC State Rep who had already committed previously to vote for the person that won his district which Clinton did.    Since NC, Obama has picked up 4 new supers....plus clinton backers like Feinstein are starting to say it's for the best if she quit. 


She's going to drop out.  Her campagin chariman Terry McAuliffe was quoted on a newstory on foxnews today  taking about the nomination process and hillary's chances comparing it to Game 7 of the World Series and saying "it will all be over within a week or two after June 3rd".

5/8/08 1:20 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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 if she can get Florida counted, she's still in it. If they don't count Florida, the Dems just gave it to the Republicans


that's the real story here. the Dems have fucked up again and are stuck between alienating Florida plus many female democrats or all the black voters in the country. its really pretty amazing how no matter how inept the Republican candidate, the Democrats still find a way to lose

5/8/08 1:25 PM
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StrikeAnywhere
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Edited: 05/08/08 1:39 PM
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 Even with Florida he'd still have the delegate lead and the popular (not sure about that though)....I think what you're going to see happen is they'll end up seating Florida but it won't be enough so she'll still drop out. 


 The bulk of the undecideds  have stated they're going to go with the pledged delegate leader after June 3rd and even counting Florida that'll still be Obama.   Based on all that I've read it  absolutely is not going to go past mid June.


It is going to be tough to get all those superhardcore clinton supporting middle age women to fully embrace Obama instead of sitting out or voting McCain out of spite.  This primary has been so nasty that there's probably a good number of them that would sooner vote for Bush to a 3rd term over Obama. There's such a "them vs. us", "he/she's the enemy" sentiment going on right now in the Dem primary.  That's why it'll be important for the DNC to convince her to campaign hard for Obama once she drops out so she can convince them it's okay to vote for him.  Who knows if it works or not.  The bright spot is that polls show Obama doing pretty good in times that have been brutal for him while McCain has been on easy street

5/8/08 1:48 PM
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jason hornbuckle
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 with Florida i think hillary has the popular vote. after 2000 its going to be real tough for the Dems to sell the "popular vote doesn't matter" angle



5/8/08 2:23 PM
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Dirt
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"


It is going to be tough to get all those superhardcore clinton supporting middle age women to fully embrace Obama instead of sitting out or voting McCain out of spite. "


Oprah might be able to turn a few


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