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ConspiracyGround >> History of Freemasonry on Ebay


7/3/08 4:33 PM
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Redneck
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 I'm currently bidding on a 1921 set of Albert Mackey's 'History of Freemasonry' on Ebay.

Reserve hasn't been met yet but I think they'll want well over $500 for the set. They are amazing books, there are dozens of pictures here.

cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll


The style of these books remind me of the book in the Johnny Depp movie 'The Ninth Gate'.

They would be an amazing addition to anyone's collection, I think they'll end up going for a small fortune.

I'd post pics but they've blocked people from stealing the images, I can't be bothered viewing the source to find the URLs for them. 

7/8/08 5:22 AM
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Redneck
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Well, this post generated a lot of interest.

I missed out on this 1921 set, they went for $860 but I did win an 1898 set of the same books.
7/13/08 6:26 PM
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Arodjohns
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urb - Pretty cool. Seems like the older America was alot more suspicious of Freemasons than current Americans, what did they know that we do not?


People were just afraid of things they knew nothing about.

There was also a bit of hate for them as it started out having all kinds of written and unwritten requirements. Things like, you couldn't be African American ("A Man; Freeborn..."), you couldn't have any kind of physical deformities or any missing limbs. You also probably would not have been accepted if you were anything but Christian (Catholics needed not apply), if you'd been divorced, if you had a child out of wedlock, if you were known to frequent bars or drink excessively.

These various requirements probably had a lot to do with why people really didn't like us then, as opposed to being mostly indifferent now.
7/14/08 9:11 AM
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Redneck
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Most of those conditions still apply and they are not why people don't like "you". They don't like "you" because they think that an occult based religion such as Freemasonry is somehow evil or tantamount to demon worship.

 

7/14/08 5:01 PM
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Arodjohns
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Edited: 07/15/08 4:15 AM
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I've always taken those folks with a grain of salt. Two thirds of them have never been Masons and the remaining third are the equivalent of Christmas and Easter Christians who really wouldn't know what Masonry is about or what the real requirements are.

I know for a fact that several of those requirements don't really apply anymore.
7/15/08 8:14 AM
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Redneck
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Arodjohns - 
I know for a fact that several of those requirements don't really apply anymore.



There have always been exceptions to the rule however in general they still don't want cripples or black people. They claim that amputees and cripples might not be able to
perform the body signs or handshakes and they don't want blacks simply because they are racist. Even today only 78% of American Lodges recognise Prince Hall Freemasonry and that has only been since 2006, prior to that the majority refused to recognise it as Freemasonry.

These days they certainly don't require that you be a Christian and they will happily substitue a Koran for the Bible as the Lodges main "holy book". In fact the Shrine is completely based around Islam.
7/15/08 9:06 PM
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Robert Wynne
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 ^first question you'll be asked "Do You Believe in God?" a no answer means you cannot join.
second question asked "Do you have any felonies?" a yes answer and you cannot be a member.

nothing is based around islam,respect for each others religous views is a requirement.

divorced okay,,stupid not okay!

islam,christianity,catholicism,all based on God of Abraham,all worship same God,they just can't stop arguing about who's doing it correctly. In Freemasonry,each individual is allowed to worship God according to his own beliefs,and no one talks down or tells you that your wrong,if you are a different theology than them,this is one of the founding principals of Freemasonry,freedom of religion.

7/15/08 10:02 PM
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Arodjohns
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Redneck -
There have always been exceptions to the rule however in general they still don't want cripples or black people. They claim that amputees and cripples might not be able to
perform the body signs or handshakes and they don't want blacks simply because they are racist. Even today only 78% of American Lodges recognise Prince Hall Freemasonry and that has only been since 2006, prior to that the majority refused to recognise it as Freemasonry.

These days they certainly don't require that you be a Christian and they will happily substitue a Koran for the Bible as the Lodges main "holy book". In fact the Shrine is completely based around Islam.


Redneck, are you actually a Mason?

As for black folks in Lodge, I sit with a black guy at every Lodge function I attend be it Blue Lodge, Chapter, Council, Commandery and a couple of the other bodies that I'm a member of. He's a fairly nice guy, and a world class pool player.

You're correct in that there is no written requirement to be a Christian, however a person who's not would have a difficult time if they were even accepted. Especially with a couple of the invitation only bodies, and more than one open body.
7/16/08 9:44 AM
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Redneck
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Edited: 07/16/08 10:23 AM
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Robert Wynne - 

 ^first question you'll be asked "Do You Believe in God?" a no answer means you cannot join.



Belief in a supreme being is mandatory, everyone knows that.
That being can be Satan for all they care.


second question asked "Do you have any felonies?" a yes answer and you cannot be a member.



You forgot to mention the other question.

Are you joining for any self-serving reason?

To which most new Masons have been fore warned and told to lie and say "no"

As for felonies, Master Masons  vow to keep the secrets of all brother  Masons, this includes any knowledge of felonies they've commited "with the exception of murder and treason". Even then it's a grey area because they add "and this is left to my own discretion."

nothing is based around islam,respect for each others religous views is a requirement.


The Shrine is based around Islam. You have to be a 32nd degree before you can join the Shrine. The candidate must kneel before a Muslim altar, put his hand on the Koran and call upon Allah for help. "May Allah the god of the Arab and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support me to the entire fulfillment of the same, Amen, Amen, Amen."

The Shrine ritual declares that Islam is truth "Whoso seeketh Islam earnestly seeks true direction".

The red cap they wear is called a fez, the fez gets it's name and color from the city of Fez in Morocco. When the city fell to Muslim conquerors and 35,000 christians were slaughtered, their blood ran in the streets. The Muslims celebrated by dipping their wool caps in the Christian's blood and wore them in triumph. This is why a fez is always red.

islam,christianity,catholicism,all based on God of Abraham,all worship same God,they just can't stop arguing about who's doing it correctly. In Freemasonry,each individual is allowed to worship God according to his own beliefs,and no one talks down or tells you that your wrong,if you are a different theology than them,this is one of the founding principals of Freemasonry,freedom of religion.

 




Yeah, until you reach the higher degrees.  
7/16/08 9:52 AM
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Redneck
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Edited: 07/16/08 10:02 AM
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The Shriners full name is the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine.

This is their logo.




This is the symbol of Islam. Note the same star and crescent.




 
7/16/08 9:59 AM
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Redneck
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Edited: 07/16/08 10:15 AM
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Arodjohns - 

As for black folks in Lodge, I sit with a black guy at every Lodge function I attend be it Blue Lodge, Chapter, Council, Commandery and a couple of the other bodies that I'm a member of. He's a fairly nice guy, and a world class pool player.



Like I said, there are exceptions to the rule. I know of a guy in a wheelchair who was accepted into the Craft. These cases are fairly rare though.



You're correct in that there is no written requirement to be a Christian, however a person who's not would have a difficult time if they were even accepted. Especially with a couple of the invitation only bodies, and more than one open body.



It depends on the location on the particular branch of Freemasonry. The York Rite claim to be christian based and the highest degree of "Knight Templar" is only open to "professing Christians". However in other Masonic orders they welcome Hindu's, Muslims and others. The Hindu Pentateuch or the Koran are often found in Lodges as one of their holy books, depending on the main religion in that region.. 
7/16/08 5:45 PM
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Robert Wynne
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 "Belief in a supreme being is mandatory, everyone knows that.
That being can be Satan for all they care."

maybe in some places,where i come from it can only be the great architect,the creator of the universe,the one who sees all from his great eye in the cosmos.

"Are you joining for any self-serving reason?

To which most new Masons have been fore warned and told to lie and say "no""

yes,but help in getting a job and such things is not a bad thing.

if i was to ever reach 32nd degree and they want me to pray to allah,they'd better be ready to whip me and kill me, :)
peace...
7/16/08 11:30 PM
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Redneck
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Edited: 07/16/08 11:31 PM
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maybe in some places,where i come from it can only be the great architect,the creator of the universe,the one who sees all from his great eye in the cosmos.


Sure, but technically speaking why couldn't that be Satan, or Xenu for that matter? I was told that you can even believe that the Grand Architect is an energy force that surges through everything in the universe, a life force.
I wasn't aware that there was a set idea as to what the Grand Architect was. Is that not correct?

Peace...
7/21/08 1:10 PM
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Robert Wynne
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 not an enforced set idea,you are correct.
7/21/08 1:16 PM
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Robert Wynne
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 the upside down star that hangs outside of most lodges, could be viewed as a satanic symbol if chosen to use it that way,the upside down star is usually associated with the goathead or satan by those who worship evil,but no one is giving them any awards for intelligence...:)
all the members of my lodge are God or Great Architect followers,even the three catholic ones,though i do try to stay away from them. peace
7/21/08 4:33 PM
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Redneck
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I think it's highly ignorant to think that there is anything Saatanic about Freemasonry, although I have seen the goats head used out front of one lodge, which surprised me.

{quote}even the three catholic ones,though i do try to stay away from them


LOL
7/21/08 4:33 PM
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Redneck
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Edited: 07/21/08 4:35 PM
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I think it's highly ignorant to think that there is anything Satanic about Freemasonry, although I have seen the goats head used out front of one lodge, which surprised me.

even the three catholic ones,though i do try to stay away from them



LOL
7/23/08 1:08 AM
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AlabamaSmooth
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My grandfather was a freemason, a shriner, and member of the royal order of jesters

For the most part it just seemed like a bunch of old guys that got drunk and had a good time

However, there were a lot of improtant  people in the community  involved in the organization
7/24/08 1:28 AM
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Redneck
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AlabamaSmooth - My grandfather was a freemason, a shriner, and member of the royal order of jesters

For the most part it just seemed like a bunch of old guys that got drunk and had a good time

However, there were a lot of improtant  people in the community  involved in the organization




They are known for their heavy drinking and their weird traditions, one of which is pissing on new initiates. Most of the Shriners are only concerned with the drinking and the community service they are known for and they aren't aware of the darker side. However the Islamic symbolism is not just for shits & giggles and very little of the money they raise actually goes to the charities they claim to support.

It's definitely a strange side of Freemasonry.
7/24/08 7:11 AM
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Arodjohns
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Redneck -
However the Islamic symbolism is not just for shits & giggles and very little of the money they raise actually goes to the charities they claim to support.


This isn't true, at least not in my area.

I'm not privy to the exact amount, but I've heard that the Shrine around here took in 2.5mil and pushed out 2.3mil.
9/11/08 1:12 PM
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mfah
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LOL @ heard
10/1/08 2:10 AM
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HardyJenns
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 The star and crescent is a symbol of Diana

There were several houses of worship dedicated to the cult of Diana in Constantinople when the Ottomans conquered it, so they just co-opted it IIRC

I'm not sure what the pagan implications of that might be, or if they just adopted it because it's islamic
12/13/08 3:51 PM
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Jay-dog
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"There have always been exceptions to the rule however in general they still don't want cripples or black people"


What about Prince Hall Freemasonry?
12/14/08 11:48 PM
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Jay-dog
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ttt
12/19/08 1:56 AM
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Jay-dog
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No history on Prince Hall masons?

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