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LEOGround >> open carry firearms


8/1/08 3:36 PM
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pedrofan
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How do officers feel about the open firearm carry dudes?
I have visited two websites recently and I have been alarmed to say the least.

www.utahconcealedcarry.com
www.opencarry.org

I hope the FREAKS are a loud minority.
8/1/08 5:00 PM
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pedrofan
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eee
8/18/08 7:27 PM
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Maloverde
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Edited: 08/18/08 7:27 PM
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 I'm not a big fan of open carry.  I'd rather them conceal and be treated as such.  It's alarming to the general public and really, the only dudes that open carry are doing it to show their dick.  Who the fuck cares if you carry.  You'll know soon enough if you fuck with me.
10/6/08 5:54 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
Maloverde -  I'm not a big fan of open carry.  I'd rather them conceal and be treated as such.  It's alarming to the general public and really, the only dudes that open carry are doing it to show their dick.  Who the fuck cares if you carry.  You'll know soon enough if you fuck with me.

 +1
10/8/08 7:40 PM
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TacFighter
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Conflictfighter, Not sure how long you have been in Florida, but when the first concealed law was passed, the legislature, not knowing, screwed up and there was a loophole which allowed people to open carry. It was quickly repealed but for a few weeks there were some cowboys running around Orlando with guns strapped on their hips.

The only good thing about it, like Maloverde said, is that the asses are readily identifiable upfront.

I have no problem with the 2nd amend. but there is no reason to openly carry a sidearm for a civilian walking around.
10/9/08 5:16 PM
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Wait, why would it be okay for cops to open carry but not civilians?
10/9/08 6:10 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 Only in uniform so that they are easily identifiable.
10/9/08 6:34 PM
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No, the badge and uniform do that.
10/9/08 6:52 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
ViewType - No, the badge and uniform do that.

 Isn't that what I said?
10/9/08 6:57 PM
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Perhaps. Your answer confused me. I asked why cops can open carry but not civilians? You replied so that they are easily identifiable. Given your last response, it's clear now that you meant they can only open carry in uniform, and I misunderstood.

But that's not the question I asked.
10/9/08 7:27 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 I might have to have a couple of drinks and reread this thread, because I am confused.  Sorry if I confused you also.  My personal opinion is that no one should open carry if not in uniform, but that is not the law nor policy at most agencies in Florida.  I was plain clothes Detective for several years and I never carried out in the open unless necessary.  I usually wore a suit jacket, even in the heat, to conceal my badge and gun while out in public.  It is not safe for a cop to wear their badge on their belt, but not their gun so I don't know what the right answer is.  I also spent several years undercover and ran into my share of Detectives who had a gun and badge on, but the badges where so small I couldn't tell what agency they were from or sometimes if they were big (fat) enough not even see their badge at all.
10/9/08 7:43 PM
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No, no, stop being civil. You'll completely ruin the stereotype of cops.

"It is not safe for a cop to wear their badge on their belt, but not their gun so I don't know what the right answer is."

A cop needs his gun on his belt why? And why should this same reason not apply to civilians? I'm not saying civilians should or should not open carry, merely looking at what reasons lie behind treating cops and non-cops differently.
10/9/08 7:54 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 Stereotypes are there for a reason, but not all cops are assholes.  What I meant about it not being safe is that I don't want to be identified as a cop and not have my gun readily available.  So if for some reason I am in plain clothes without a jacket and my badge is on my belt, so is my gun.  Normally I would take the badge off my belt and wear the gun on my ankle if I didn't have a jacket on.

I am not trying to be over dramatic, but there are a lot of people who hate cops and would love to catch one off guard.  I would always tell the new guys not to flash their badges around when out in public because it just attracts attention, but that is just me.  So answer your question about open carrying I don't think it should matter if you are a cop or not, you need to be easily identified as a law enforcement officer.  That doesn't necessarily mean a uniform, but at least a raid jacket, hat and badge around your neck.
10/9/08 8:02 PM
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Don't worry, I'll just assume your an asshole so you can't mess with my preconceived notions.

If I understand what you're saying, open carry is there for faster access and better response. I would contend that a normal civilian needs this just as much as a cop does. Yes, many people would love to attack cops, but most often crime victims are not uniformed cops. It would seem the more likely target (the regular civilian) has a greater need for easy access than the cop does.
10/9/08 8:12 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 I think we may be arguing the same point, but in different ways.  The bottom line is that I really don't think anyone should open carry.  My reasoning is that, it makes some people uncomfortable, it is to easy to take away someones gun if they are not trained or  not using a duty holster and in some cases people might be quicker to use it if it was right on their hip.  If you don't mind me asking, why don't you like cops?  Don't get me wrong I don't like a lot of cops, but I also understand the difficulties of the job and the balancing act of being a good cop AND a nice guy at the same time.
10/9/08 8:25 PM
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I don't mind. It's not an blanket dislike that doesn't take into account individuals. I have several friends who are cops or former cops. However, I have worked as an attorney or constultant both for and against law enforcement agencies across North America on human/civil rights litigation, and also on many criminal cases and I see a general trend.

Power corrupts, as Lord Acton observed, and cops have a lot of power. They tend to forget that their job is to enforce the law. They get swayed into a mentality of "us versus them" or "good versus evil" where now the law becomes secondary. Suddenly, it's okay to lie on the stand, falsify evidence, and administer street justice (beatings).

Not all cops are bad. I have met some fine ones, and some absolute heros. But those are in the minority. And even they rarely stand up to the abuses and illegalities going on behind the scenes out of fear for their jobs, maybe even lives.
10/9/08 8:26 PM
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So my point on open carry is: if cops can open carry, the law abiding citizens should be able to. If citizens can't, then cops shouldn't be allowed to either.
10/10/08 10:32 AM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
ViewType - So my point on open carry is: if cops can open carry, the law abiding citizens should be able to. If citizens can't, then cops shouldn't be allowed to either.

 Even in unifrom?
10/10/08 12:55 PM
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Why should a cop be allowed to open carry in uniform? You said it was because s/he was more likely to be attacked. But civilians are far more likely to be attacked than uniformed police officers.
10/10/08 1:07 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 Well, if I am responding to a domestic call, which is statistically more dangerous than most calls, I want to be able to get to my gun quick.
10/10/08 2:47 PM
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That's a good point. And if I live in a bad neighborhood, I should have the same option, shouldn't I?
10/11/08 12:21 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 O.K. you seem like a funny guy, but now I think you are just trolling me.  I'm done.
10/11/08 4:12 PM
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No trolling. I'm trying to figure out what you see as the difference between an officer in uniform and a law abiding citizen.
10/11/08 10:44 PM
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conflictfighter
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Conflict Fightgear
 You mean a law abiding citizen who is NOT in uniform or readily recognizable as not being a criminal  and does NOT have a duty to act?
10/12/08 5:57 PM
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conflictfighter -  You mean a law abiding citizen who is NOT in uniform or readily recognizable as not being a criminal  and does NOT have a duty to act?
That's a loaded and compound question. Yes, I mean a law abiding citizen. No, a uniform does not make you recognizable as NOT being a criminal. No, police don't have a legal duty to act.

I'm not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, but I would like to try and understand yours.

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